100 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

Let me preface this by stating that I LOVE my HBK-4G with an AC20. I was also on the "don't touch my AC" bandwagon. My opinion has changed somewhat....

I would like to try the scenario where ALL (IS and Clan) ACs operated the same, i.e. burst fire instead of the single shell the IS enjoy now. The Clan advantage would still be with the weight and size (crits) of the ACs, and with more options for UAC and LBX.

There is precedent for this in the Lore and previous Mechwarrior games.

Not saying this is the way we have to go, but I'd like to try it.

[Grrzoot]

currently i find this is the only advantage the is mechs have against the clans, i would hate to see it go.

[CDLord HHGD]

Grrzoot, on 30 September 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

currently i find this is the only advantage the is mechs have against the clans, i would hate to see it go.

AC FLD is one of the few advantages sure, but FLD is also seen by many as the bane of this game.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Since this does not currently seem to present a problem to game balance and is mostly just to scratch the lore itch, I say leave it as it is.

[Piney II]

Grrzoot, on 30 September 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

currently i find this is the only advantage the is mechs have against the clans, i would hate to see it go.

Agreed.

[CygnusX7]

I would not like that change.

[Rip von Graze]

I love the single shot IS ACs for one reason, delivering that 5/10/20 dmg hit fast and moving out of the enemies LOS. I play a lot of mediums which are not going to want to stand there and let the magazine empty while I am being lit up. Clan mechs can take that punishment but IS cannot. Still I see there is some room in the middle to keep people happy...

Maybe allow IS pilots the choice between rapid shot and a single shell.

- Rapid shot reloads faster (Magazine fed)
- Single shot reloads slower (default reload time?)

- Feed type is only able to be changed between games
- Add a checkbox to the UI

Players have the option between how they want to apply their damage, if I am boating ACs it might make sense to use the rapid shots, however for people like me that want some level of fire and run I'd stay with a single shell.

[Mcgral18]

cdlord, on 30 September 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

AC FLD is one of the few advantages sure, but FLD is also seen by many as the bane of this game.

Pinpoint is the bigger issue, but FLD is easier to fix.

[MeiSooHaityu]

cdlord, on 30 September 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

Let me preface this by stating that I LOVE my HBK-4G with an AC20. I was also on the "don't touch my AC" bandwagon. My opinion has changed somewhat....

I would like to try the scenario where ALL (IS and Clan) ACs operated the same, i.e. burst fire instead of the single shell the IS enjoy now. The Clan advantage would still be with the weight and size (crits) of the ACs, and with more options for UAC and LBX.

There is precedent for this in the Lore and previous Mechwarrior games.

Not saying this is the way we have to go, but I'd like to try it.

IS ballistics would need a counter advantage in some way. What would it be?

Would IS ballistics enjoy a faster cooldown, quicker travel times, or maybe more ammo per ton? We know it couldn't be range or weight.

If the IS mechs lose FLD, they need another advantage to off-set the nerf they just recieved. Seeing as how good FLD is, it would need to be one heck of a Buff.

[TexAce]

No one is taking my AC20 slug away. Hear that? No one.

[Livewyr]

This is where having multiple models of weapons would come in.

Luxor 20 has slightly faster RoF and faster projectile speed, but spits out 10 rounds
Pontiac 100 has same rate of fire, same projectile speed, but spits out 2 rounds..
Chemjet has slower rate of fire, and slightly slower projectile speed, but is single shot like what we have now.

Luxor good for Assault- more time on target, faster DPS
Pontiac good for Heavies- less time on target and easier concentrated damage
Chemjet good for mediums as a strike tool.

Same could be applied with individual weapon quirks with just about every kind of weapon.

(Some miissile could fly faster for a lower RoF)
(Some lasers could have a lopsided damage delivery: 25% of the damage FLD, then 75% burn afterward, things like that)
(PPCs could exchange RoF for faster projectiles)
(Gauss have slower RoF for less chance of exploding when destroyed)


There is a whole level of complex here that PGI can exploit to make the game further customizable and fit role warfare even better than just different Weight classes

[CDLord HHGD]

MeiSooHaityu, on 30 September 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

IS ballistics would need a counter advantage in some way. What would it be?

Would IS ballistics enjoy a faster cooldown, quicker travel times, or maybe more ammo per ton? We know it couldn't be range or weight.

If the IS mechs lose FLD, they need another advantage to off-set the nerf they just recieved. Seeing as how good FLD is, it would need to be one heck of a Buff.

Why? They are supposed to be outclassed by clan tech.

Edited by cdlord, 30 September 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

cdlord, on 30 September 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

I would like to try the scenario where ALL (IS and Clan) ACs operated the same, i.e. burst fire instead of the single shell the IS enjoy now.

Why in the name of everything wonderful would you want to replace a marksman's round with spray-and-pray burst fire?

[FupDup]

PPFLD isn't even the "boogeyman" of the game anymore. The PPC nerf indirectly nerfed IS ACs because IS ACs were almost always used specifically in combination with PPCs. IS ACs used by themselves are usually viable, but aren't gamebreaking like the old 30+ pinpoint alphas were. Lasers, particularly Clan lasers, are the new meta now, along with Gauss and SRMs. I can get a HoL player in here to testify if you don't believe me.

In general, IS ACs would be rendered nearly unusable by making them burst fire. The AC/2 is already fairly bad as it is, the AC/5 is okay but needs to be carried in pairs or more to be worth it, the AC/10 is sub-par, and the AC/20 is strong (as it should be, given its short range, heavy weight, and large critslot size). If not given a decent compensatory buff at the time of the burst nerf, they would become inferior to IS energy options. And that would be dumb.

[MeiSooHaityu]

cdlord, on 30 September 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Why? They are supposed to be outclassed by clan tech.

I guess I'm just confused, but Clan weapons are lighter and take up less room than IS and not the other way around. Your suggestion would also nerf the IS ballistics giving them even more of a disadvantage.

I'm just curious what counter "buff" does the IS ballistics get to makeup for such hard nerfing? Are you suggesting making the IS ballistics far smaller and lighter than they are now?

[Clit Beastwood]

Livewyr, on 30 September 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

This is where having multiple models of weapons would come in.

Luxor 20 has slightly faster RoF and faster projectile speed, but spits out 10 rounds
Pontiac 100 has same rate of fire, same projectile speed, but spits out 2 rounds..
Chemjet has slower rate of fire, and slightly slower projectile speed, but is single shot like what we have now.

Luxor good for Assault- more time on target, faster DPS
Pontiac good for Heavies- less time on target and easier concentrated damage
Chemjet good for mediums as a strike tool.

Same could be applied with individual weapon quirks with just about every kind of weapon.

(Some miissile could fly faster for a lower RoF)
(Some lasers could have a lopsided damage delivery: 25% of the damage FLD, then 75% burn afterward, things like that)
(PPCs could exchange RoF for faster projectiles)
(Gauss have slower RoF for less chance of exploding when destroyed)


There is a whole level of complex here that PGI can exploit to make the game further customizable and fit role warfare even better than just different Weight classes

whoah whoah whoah - a big chunk of the playerbase can't even move and shoot at the same time. You're talking a heap of new variables to further confuse the new guys. I get what you want to do, but in it's current state the game is nowhere near ready for such a change.

[CDLord HHGD]

MeiSooHaityu, on 30 September 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

I guess I'm just confused, but Clan weapons are lighter and take up less room than IS and not the other way around. Your suggestion would also nerf the IS ballistics giving them even more of a disadvantage.

I'm just curious what counter "buff" does the IS ballistics get to makeup for such hard nerfing? Are you suggesting making the IS ballistics far smaller and lighter than they are now?

Huh?

I understand that this would be viewed as a nerf to IS ACs and I am not offering up any compensatory buff. I'm just stating that I'd like to try it out, see how it goes.

Livewyr, on 30 September 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

This is where having multiple models of weapons would come in.

Luxor 20 has slightly faster RoF and faster projectile speed, but spits out 10 rounds
Pontiac 100 has same rate of fire, same projectile speed, but spits out 2 rounds..
Chemjet has slower rate of fire, and slightly slower projectile speed, but is single shot like what we have now.

Luxor good for Assault- more time on target, faster DPS
Pontiac good for Heavies- less time on target and easier concentrated damage
Chemjet good for mediums as a strike tool.

Same could be applied with individual weapon quirks with just about every kind of weapon.

(Some miissile could fly faster for a lower RoF)
(Some lasers could have a lopsided damage delivery: 25% of the damage FLD, then 75% burn afterward, things like that)
(PPCs could exchange RoF for faster projectiles)
(Gauss have slower RoF for less chance of exploding when destroyed)


There is a whole level of complex here that PGI can exploit to make the game further customizable and fit role warfare even better than just different Weight classes

I do like this and expect something like this eventually. There are different manufacturers and models to the AC (and weapons in general). The Pontiac AC20 can be the single slug, but a different manufacturer could behave more like Clans...

[MeiSooHaityu]

cdlord, on 30 September 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

Huh?

I understand that this would be viewed as a nerf to IS ACs and I am not offering up any compensatory buff. I'm just stating that I'd like to try it out, see how it goes.

You edited your post . You were saying the IS stuff was lighter and smaller.

Anyway, I do think clan ballistics are neat with that feature (especially boated), but they lose their FLD to compensate for being lighter and smaller. If IS ballistics match the burst mechanic, they need an offset improvement to re-balance it out. That's all I'm saying.

[Bilbo]

cdlord, on 30 September 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Huh?

I understand that this would be viewed as a nerf to IS ACs and I am not offering up any compensatory buff. I'm just stating that I'd like to try it out, see how it goes.

It would be a slaughter. All they have going for them is the pinpoint damage. If you take that away, they would be outranged, outgunned, and fairly well screwed.

[CDLord HHGD]

MeiSooHaityu, on 30 September 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

You edited your post . You were saying the IS stuff was lighter and smaller.

Anyway, I do think clan ballistics are neat with that feature (especially boated), but they lose their FLD to compensate for being lighter and smaller. If IS ballistics match the burst mechanic, they need an offset improvement to re-balance it out. That's all I'm saying.

Red handed, I just forgot.... I misread your reply and typed that up but edited it with my correction. I do like Livewyr's idea and forgot about the Devs talking about it. It'd be a best of both worlds scenario.