18 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

There seems to be a lot of talk that the IS lights and mediums are better than their Clan counterparts. I think people need to learn how to properly play clan Lights and mediums.
1st thing we need to get off the table. You cannot play Clan lights or Mediums like their IS counterparts. They are completely different. I'm going to split this up into Light and Medium sections.

Lights:
For lights, there are 2 clan mechs. KitFox and the Adder. Neither should be treated like a firestarter or a raven. As a KitFox your job is to escort Assault mechs to battle. You should have ECM and be bringing the DireWolves and WarHawks to battle without them being ripped up by LRMs or Lights. You can mount as many weapons as a medium but can run a bit faster than some mediums, so you should have no trouble keeping up with the assaults.

The Adder is an entirely fire support mech. Its shape and size allow it to easily be fired over, and lets it be unnoticed. You should be sticking with Heavies or Assaults to punch or finish off the mechs they are firing on. Its flame thrower also helps it keep light mechs away and burn through heavier mechs that get too close to your assault or heavy buddies.

Mediums:
So far we have 2 mediums for Clans. The Stormcrow and the Nova. The recent heat nerf for clan weapons has render the Nova almost useless. StormCrow is really good, but it also can't be used like IS mediums. Clan mediums should be sticking with the Heavies. Timberwolves and Summoners should be pushing ahead quickly with Stormcrows and Novas acting as support.


Clans have a very strict play style for each weight class. Heavies should be pushing and forming a main line, with Mediums as support. Assaults should be slowly advancing and crushing any enemy lines in their way with Lights as their escorts protecting them from lights and LRMs.
Exceptions for this rule falls to the Mad Dog so far, Mad dogs should be played like a Catapult, standing behind the main lines to fire on heavy targets.
This is likely to change with the release of wave 2. the Linx may render other lights useless. For the time being, if you stick to this style you will see an improvement in survivability for your team.

Now there is some wiggle room for Heavies. They can act as snipers, missile support, or brawlers, but you will have a hard time forcing mediums or lights to play outside of their support role.

[Darian DelFord]

Brody319, on 01 October 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

There seems to be a lot of talk that the IS lights and mediums are better than their Clan counterparts. I think people need to learn how to properly play clan Lights and mediums.
1st thing we need to get off the table. You cannot play Clan lights or Mediums like their IS counterparts. They are completely different. I'm going to split this up into Light and Medium sections.

Lights:
For lights, there are 2 clan mechs. KitFox and the Adder. Neither should be treated like a firestarter or a raven. As a KitFox your job is to escort Assault mechs to battle. You should have ECM and be bringing the DireWolves and WarHawks to battle without them being ripped up by LRMs or Lights. You can mount as many weapons as a medium but can run a bit faster than some mediums, so you should have no trouble keeping up with the assaults.

The Adder is an entirely fire support mech. Its shape and size allow it to easily be fired over, and lets it be unnoticed. You should be sticking with Heavies or Assaults to punch or finish off the mechs they are firing on. Its flame thrower also helps it keep light mechs away and burn through heavier mechs that get too close to your assault or heavy buddies.

Mediums:
So far we have 2 mediums for Clans. The Stormcrow and the Nova. The recent heat nerf for clan weapons has render the Nova almost useless. StormCrow is really good, but it also can't be used like IS mediums. Clan mediums should be sticking with the Heavies. Timberwolves and Summoners should be pushing ahead quickly with Stormcrows and Novas acting as support.


Clans have a very strict play style for each weight class. Heavies should be pushing and forming a main line, with Mediums as support. Assaults should be slowly advancing and crushing any enemy lines in their way with Lights as their escorts protecting them from lights and LRMs.
Exceptions for this rule falls to the Mad Dog so far, Mad dogs should be played like a Catapult, standing behind the main lines to fire on heavy targets.
This is likely to change with the release of wave 2. the Linx may render other lights useless. For the time being, if you stick to this style you will see an improvement in survivability for your team.

Now there is some wiggle room for Heavies. They can act as snipers, missile support, or brawlers, but you will have a hard time forcing mediums or lights to play outside of their support role.

I will speak for the Kit Fox. My job is not to escort the Fatties to the front line. As an ECM fox with 2 LPL's my job is to tear you up from range, something I do nicely. Putting the Kitfox in a purely support role as you describe as a "must" is a complete waste of 2 other ways to play that mech.

[Brody319]

Darian DelFord, on 01 October 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

I will speak for the Kit Fox. My job is not to escort the Fatties to the front line. As an ECM fox with 2 LPL's my job is to tear you up from range, something I do nicely. Putting the Kitfox in a purely support role as you describe as a "must" is a complete waste of 2 other ways to play that mech.

No reason you can't do both. but when it comes to long range harassment, Assaults and Heavies got you beat. Twin gauss with plenty of ammo.

[Josef Nader]

I too wish to challenge your take on the Kit Fox. I play mine like a close range striker, using my jump jets, agility, and massed SRMs to get behind a target and tear them apart in seconds, or pounding away at targets with my UAC/10. ECM is entirely optional, though you do want to stick close to the main battlegroup.

I find that ECM is actually a hindrance, as it makes you a significantly higher target priority. Without ECM, I'm usually given the freedom I need to manuver around the fight without drawing too much fire, and given the amount of punch I can pack onto the little guy I'm hitting like a medium mech while only taking up a light slot. It can't range out on it's own like a Raven or Firestarter, but it's one of the most stupid effective tank hunters I've used in this game.

[IceSerpent]

Brody319, on 01 October 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

Lights:
For lights, there are 2 clan mechs. KitFox and the Adder. Neither should be treated like a firestarter or a raven. As a KitFox your job is to escort Assault mechs to battle. You should have ECM and be bringing the DireWolves and WarHawks to battle without them being ripped up by LRMs or Lights. You can mount as many weapons as a medium but can run a bit faster than some mediums, so you should have no trouble keeping up with the assaults.

1. Who in their right mind would willingly accept an "escort Assault mechs" role when you can pick a different mech and actually fight?
2. With upcoming Hellbringer being an ECM carrier, it would make a much better "escort" due to packing more guns and more armor.

Quote

The Adder is an entirely fire support mech. Its shape and size allow it to easily be fired over, and lets it be unnoticed. You should be sticking with Heavies or Assaults to punch or finish off the mechs they are firing on. Its flame thrower also helps it keep light mechs away and burn through heavier mechs that get too close to your assault or heavy buddies.

1. "Fire support" vehicles don't stay in front of anything, so the "easy to be fired over" feature is useless for them.
2. Anything Adder can do a Stormcrow can do better while having the same speed.
3. Flamer is a complete waste of tonnage, it certainly ain't gonna keep anything away.

Quote

Mediums:
So far we have 2 mediums for Clans. The Stormcrow and the Nova. The recent heat nerf for clan weapons has render the Nova almost useless. StormCrow is really good, but it also can't be used like IS mediums. Clan mediums should be sticking with the Heavies. Timberwolves and Summoners should be pushing ahead quickly with Stormcrows and Novas acting as support.

Agreed that Nova is trash, but Stormcrow can be used exactly like IS mediums. Actually, sticking with the heavies and assaults is exactly what mediums do on both sides (except for Cicada that usually sticks with lights).

[Darian DelFord]

Brody319, on 01 October 2014 - 06:52 PM, said:

No reason you can't do both. but when it comes to long range harassment, Assaults and Heavies got you beat. Twin gauss with plenty of ammo.

ROFL says you ;p

Take my build and see who deals more damage sniping. Heaves and Assaults get a Dorito Chip, I don't :>

[FupDup]

IceSerpent, on 01 October 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

2. Anything Adder can do a Stormcrow can do better while having the same speed.

Heck, I'd prefer a Shadow Hawk or Griffin over a Badder any day. Better hitboxes, better hardpoints, usually more firepower (or break-even at worst), and fairly close in speed (90-105 range usually).

IceSerpent, on 01 October 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

2. With upcoming Hellbringer being an ECM carrier, it would make a much better "escort" due to packing more guns and more armor.

I think the main issue with that is that the Lelbringer uses up a heavy mech slot that could normally go to Mad Cats. Not that the Lelbringer is bad, but rather that the Mad Cat is just so amazeballs.

[Brody319]

Josef Nader, on 01 October 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

I too wish to challenge your take on the Kit Fox. I play mine like a close range striker, using my jump jets, agility, and massed SRMs to get behind a target and tear them apart in seconds, or pounding away at targets with my UAC/10. ECM is entirely optional, though you do want to stick close to the main battlegroup.

I find that ECM is actually a hindrance, as it makes you a significantly higher target priority. Without ECM, I'm usually given the freedom I need to manuver around the fight without drawing too much fire, and given the amount of punch I can pack onto the little guy I'm hitting like a medium mech while only taking up a light slot. It can't range out on it's own like a Raven or Firestarter, but it's one of the most stupid effective tank hunters I've used in this game.

When I see the stock loadouts on kit foxes they seem to be focused on support role. They come with long range and close range weapons. Prime has a shotgun and srms on one arm (short range, excellent weapons for putting lights down), and a Large laser on the other arm, for long range damage. You can pack a lot of firepower but you can't really sneak behind the enemy and do the damage other lights can. Raven for example, it runs fast, and has tiny legs, letting it get in and out quickly and allowing it to dodge fire. Kit Foxes on the other hand are relatively slow for lights, this makes them better suited for assisting in damaging high value targets rather than pestering the enemy. They are also the only Clan lights with ECM so far, so they make good escorts. Weapons for all ranges, and ECM to protect allies. In CW with large group drops will most likely be playing them like this simply because Losing an assault is pretty bad. 1/1/1/1, means if your team wastes its assaults early, getting ripped up by LRM fire, arty and air strikes you will be stuck with lights and mediums late game.

Every mech has a build that changes its role, but when it comes to the Kit Fox escorting is just a niche it fits in really well.

For hunting assaults, it can be useful but if you protect your assaults properly you won't need to hunt, your buddy will have punched a hole in their face allowing you to poke its squishy insides.

[Darian DelFord]

Brody319, on 01 October 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

When I see the stock loadouts on kit foxes they seem to be focused on support role. They come with long range and close range weapons. Prime has a shotgun and srms on one arm (short range, excellent weapons for putting lights down), and a Large laser on the other arm, for long range damage. You can pack a lot of firepower but you can't really sneak behind the enemy and do the damage other lights can. Raven for example, it runs fast, and has tiny legs, letting it get in and out quickly and allowing it to dodge fire. Kit Foxes on the other hand are relatively slow for lights, this makes them better suited for assisting in damaging high value targets rather than pestering the enemy. They are also the only Clan lights with ECM so far, so they make good escorts. Weapons for all ranges, and ECM to protect allies. In CW with large group drops will most likely be playing them like this simply because Losing an assault is pretty bad. 1/1/1/1, means if your team wastes its assaults early, getting ripped up by LRM fire, arty and air strikes you will be stuck with lights and mediums late game.

Every mech has a build that changes its role, but when it comes to the Kit Fox escorting is just a niche it fits in really well.

For hunting assaults, it can be useful but if you protect your assaults properly you won't need to hunt, your buddy will have punched a hole in their face allowing you to poke its squishy insides.

Ummm Raven and "Tiny" Legs he says

You do realize that Raven's legs are its largest problems and have been since I dunno forever....

Before you make a topic telling people "How" they should play their mechs, prehaps you should do a helluva lot more research.

[aniviron]

Brody319, on 01 October 2014 - 06:52 PM, said:

No reason you can't do both. but when it comes to long range harassment, Assaults and Heavies got you beat. Twin gauss with plenty of ammo.

Yeah, who ever heard of a Kitfox doing damage?



In all seriousness though the Kitfox is made of tissue paper. You -can- survive alone for a while, but it's not a Jenner or Raven where you're fine being 1km from your main group. Having somewhere to run when you're in over your head helps.

[Josef Nader]

Brody319, on 01 October 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

When I see the stock loadouts on kit foxes they seem to be focused on support role. They come with long range and close range weapons. Prime has a shotgun and srms on one arm (short range, excellent weapons for putting lights down), and a Large laser on the other arm, for long range damage. You can pack a lot of firepower but you can't really sneak behind the enemy and do the damage other lights can. Raven for example, it runs fast, and has tiny legs, letting it get in and out quickly and allowing it to dodge fire. Kit Foxes on the other hand are relatively slow for lights, this makes them better suited for assisting in damaging high value targets rather than pestering the enemy. They are also the only Clan lights with ECM so far, so they make good escorts. Weapons for all ranges, and ECM to protect allies. In CW with large group drops will most likely be playing them like this simply because Losing an assault is pretty bad. 1/1/1/1, means if your team wastes its assaults early, getting ripped up by LRM fire, arty and air strikes you will be stuck with lights and mediums late game.

Every mech has a build that changes its role, but when it comes to the Kit Fox escorting is just a niche it fits in really well.

For hunting assaults, it can be useful but if you protect your assaults properly you won't need to hunt, your buddy will have punched a hole in their face allowing you to poke its squishy insides.

The Kit Fox devotes half it's total weight to pod space. It's not an escort. It's a gunboat. It's a tiny medium mech. Like a medium mech, it's most effective when paired with a big, scary buddy to draw aggro. However, your job when the fight breaks down is not to stand next to your buddy and plink away his target. Your job is to use your superior speed and mobility to get an angle on his target and hit it in it's weak spots. By doing this, you force the enemy pilot to choose between turning around and dealing with you (and getting owned by your heavier buddy) or letting you chew through his butt to try and lay damage into your buddy. By forcing him to choose like this, you burn him down a -lot- faster than if you stood in front and plinked at his armor.

Besides, who uses stock loadouts for anything?

[Brody319]

Darian DelFord, on 01 October 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Ummm Raven and "Tiny" Legs he says

You do realize that Raven's legs are its largest problems and have been since I dunno forever....

Before you make a topic telling people "How" they should play their mechs, prehaps you should do a helluva lot more research.

When I played my KitFoxes like snipers, IS lights, brawlers or other. I tended to die quickly and had to rely on my teamates to get me the assist kills after I had poked the hornets nest. even if I played carefully the enemy still doesn't like that light with the UAC/10 or twin PPCs poking them. However, When I stuck around the whales with ECM, no one wanted to touch me. I had a giant bullet magnet to distract the enemy. This magnet was also a cannon, punching away all that pesky metal letting me rip out their insides for more kills. My Overall Damage, wins, kills, and Assists went up when I played like this, rather than Rambo.

[Darian DelFord]

Brody319, on 01 October 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

When I played my KitFoxes like snipers, IS lights, brawlers or other. I tended to die quickly and had to rely on my teamates to get me the assist kills after I had poked the hornets nest. even if I played carefully the enemy still doesn't like that light with the UAC/10 or twin PPCs poking them. However, When I stuck around the whales with ECM, no one wanted to touch me. I had a giant bullet magnet to distract the enemy. This magnet was also a cannon, punching away all that pesky metal letting me rip out their insides for more kills. My Overall Damage, wins, kills, and Assists went up when I played like this, rather than Rambo.

Try Harder

Every match is different, practice makes perfect. Every mech is different, you just have to get used to it, once you do, it becomse your favorite mech.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 01 October 2014 - 07:25 PM.

[Josef Nader]

Honestly, the Kit Fox is the sleeper hit of the Clan mechs, IMHO. Yes, we all know the Timber is going to step on your junk and the Whale is going to pound you into pieces, but the Kit Fox draws very little aggro and packs harder-hitting loadouts than most IS mediums.

The Adder can't compete.

[Darian DelFord]

Josef Nader, on 01 October 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Honestly, the Kit Fox is the sleeper hit of the Clan mechs, IMHO. Yes, we all know the Timber is going to step on your junk and the Whale is going to pound you into pieces, but the Kit Fox draws very little aggro and packs harder-hitting loadouts than most IS mediums.

The Adder can't compete.

I honestly do not have much experience with the Adder but to me the only real difference is the ECM.

[InspectorG]

Brody319, on 01 October 2014 - 06:52 PM, said:

No reason you can't do both. but when it comes to long range harassment, Assaults and Heavies got you beat. Twin gauss with plenty of ammo.

You use the Kifox to pressure the opponent while your Whale is cooling down. Of course you wont do the same damage. But you can keep on the pressure. Bonus- opponent will usually shoot at heavy/assault teammates leaving you be for the moment.

And, at low to mid elo, you can go whale hunt. But if you get caught, you are dead.

[Mcgral18]

Darian DelFord, on 01 October 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

I honestly do not have much experience with the Adder but to me the only real difference is the ECM.

And 1.5 tons of pod space.

Cute fox has the MGs, if you want to count those. 2 are pretty insignificant, though.

[InspectorG]

Brody319, on 01 October 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

For hunting assaults, it can be useful but if you protect your assaults properly you won't need to hunt, your buddy will have punched a hole in their face allowing you to poke its squishy insides.

I hunt assaults and lrm boats in my srm24 Kitfox. I can get over to them faster on certain maps(canyon) and if the whale is alone, i can usually kill him.
Why do this? To build skills and because its fun.

[Josef Nader]

The Adder has fewer hardpoints to work with, less flexible omnipods, and the fixed flamer to work around. It's also just a hair less agile than the Fox, and it's bigger with worse hitboxes. The Kit Fox is the surprising winner, IMHO.