92 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

No PPC buffs, no LRM buffs, I can't believe anyone working on this plays the Orion. MWO's Orion is not a Brawler, but it got all Brawler Quirks. Most Orions carry LRMs anyway, Kerensky's had a PPC and Gauss Rifle. Anyway, not the way I would play the Orion after using only them for 3 months. It's tougher at least. That's important for it.

Edited by Lightfoot, 31 October 2014 - 08:14 PM.

[Zordicron]

I would give up all the weapon quirks if they made it sturdy enough in LT and RT to run an XL safely. Seriously, XL350 brings out so much agility in this mech and leaves enough room for good firepower. If the thing was sturdy enough to run this without niche loadouts, it would potentially be able to put up a challenge to similar weight clan mechs, TBR included. As it is....

Well, I blew half of one away with my brawler crow before he could bring his firepower around onto me, and by then it was too late. Orion players do sometimes brawl, and hang out by Atlas and crew, but a lot of them loadup on long range because the thing is not agile, at all, with a STD. engine like a 300, and downright sluggish with smaller engines. So then you get people that can't keep up with lighter mechs, and dont have the ability to move in the front lines, so they camp out in the rear with boring LRM boats or wanna-be sniper loadouts. Then my BrawlCrow eats them. The mech can take some dmg no doubt, with a STD engine, but in doing so it gimps it's speed horrendously which means it just eats more dmg anyway because it can't maneuver, thusly the tanking bonus is moot.

Really, Russ or whoever, consider making the Orion more XL friendly.

[Tezcatli]

I am also surprised at the lack of long range quirks. Also by the fact the Protector and the VA have the exact same quirks. The Protector should get PPC or Gauss quirks.

[SuperNobody]

The Orion can be a great brawler. I like 4 ML, AC20, and 2 SSRM on the K variant. Of course, it does best on smaller maps, but all brawlers do.

[Lordred]

They should allow the Orion to use the 375 engine, but meh.


Also they all have Missile CD buff.

[Hans Von Lohman]

I whole heart agree that the Protector quirks are bat-guano bizarre.

The Protector even has the same quirks from the VA Orion. I also find it odd that none of the Orions have any quirks for the normal AC-10, which is what they usually carry.

No, the Protector is good old Alexander Kerensky's mech. It needs Gauss Rifle quirks, not AC-20. Give the AC-20 to the Orion-K, which works better as a brawler with the quad medium lasers.

I actually bought an Orion-M so I could at least get the good 20% bonuses for generic ballistics. I know a great LB-10x with 40% rate of fire is good (paired with a Centurion 9D), but 20% for my normal AC-10 is not too shabby.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 31 October 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[Tezcatli]

Hans Von Lohman, on 31 October 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

I whole heart agree that the Protector quirks are bat-guano bizarre.

The Protector even has the same quirks from the VA Orion. I also find it odd that none of the Orions have any quirks for the normal AC-10, which is what they usually carry.

No, the Protector is good old Alexander Kerensky's mech. It needs Gauss Rifle quirks, not AC-20. Give the AC-20 to the Orion-K, which works better as a brawler with the quad medium lasers.

I actually bought an Orion-M so I could at least get the good 20% bonuses for generic ballistics. I know a great LB-10x with 40% rate of fire is good (paired with a Centurion 9D), but 20% for my normal AC-10 is not too shabby.

Whoa whoa, don't give the On1-K AC20 quirks. I run mine with 2 large pulse laser, 2 medium and a UAC5 for greater accuracy. And an XL350 for agility. So no AC20.

[LORD ORION]

I dunno

The ON1-V quirks look quite right, though I would prefer it to be UAC/5 instead of AC/5.

Most of the other general quirks will also improve the typical better Orion builds....

However... I do agree there are a few "WTF are you smoking?" main quirks.

1x UAC/5 does not make sense on the ON1-K, it should be AC/10 and/or AC/20. (it has 1 mount, what is wrong with say giving it faster AC/20 reload as 1 quirk, or faster AC/10 shot velocity as another quirk)

AC/20 does not make sense on the VA. You can't do SRM6 and AC20 on that mech... and if you want to be a face puncher, why are you picking this mech for 1xAC/20 over 4xSRMs in the arms?
VA doesn't have an LRM-10 quirk? :\ Fail.

ON1-P should also get Gauss quirk and AC-2 quirk (2x AC2 and FF + ES synergize)
ON1-P should get an ER-PPC quirk
You know, because it is designed as a support mech? Which might be the reason people bought it?

Also lol@ON1-M LBX quirk... very nice... encourage people to use a useless weapon on the worst Orion.,. not exactly the point of this quirk exercise is it?

Edited by LORD ORION, 01 November 2014 - 12:03 AM.

[Impyrium]

What? My Orion is a baby Atlas DDC! 2xML, AC20 + 2xSRM6 = many things exploding in front of you! Usually high damage matches. Can't really see it being used that well long range...

[Asmudius Heng]

I tend to brawl in an Orion

It's not XL friendly and as such you dent to run standard engines.

Standard engines allow much more durability

Therefore being a brawler tends to help my team because it runs like a tank taking as much damage as possible before dying allowing your friendlies more leeway.

Without XL at range it's too slow or too underpowered in my experience

[5LeafClover]

AC10, 3xML, 3xSRM6 works fine for me. With speed tweek, Std300 is just about agile enough.

I'd agree Orion is not one of the headline brawlers though and would have expected quirks to play upon its flexibility.

[RavensScar]

Agreed. I've been running Orions since they came out, and I've had 1K damage games in them. I really don't understand what builds they're trying to buff. It seems like Orions are being railroaded into running some bizarre, sub-par builds if they want to make use of all the quirks. Buffing bad builds on a slightly sub-par chassis isn't how you make a mech competitive!

UAC/5 and MLas on the ON1-K - No synergy between the weapons, and only 1 ballistic hardpoint on a 75 tonner.

AC/5 and LRM5 on the ON1-V - Dual AC/5 makes some sense, but again, buffing LRM5s on a 75 tonner with only 3 missile hardpoints.

The ON1-M could make an interesting scatter-gun build with rapid-firing LB/10 and SRM6s - fun, but not all that effective.

And it looks like the AC/20 build that most people run on the ON1-K is being moved to the ON1-VA. You can just about fit an AC/20, 2 MLas and 2 SRM6s on that variant, with a standard engine (not gonna brawl with XL) but it seems a waste of 4 missile hardpoints.

For reference, my 2 preferred builds are:

ON1-K: 4 MLas, AC/20, SRM6 or LRM10, STD300.

ON1-V: 2 PPC, AC10, 2 SRM6, XL300.

[Joshua McEvedy]

I turned my Protector into a really good command mech with a Command Console, advanced sensors, BAP, and AMS. Weapons loadout is 2 ERLLs, 1 Gauss Rifle, SRM6/SRM4 with Artemis, and 1 Medium Laser. I have fun with it hanging beside Atlases and Dire Wolves, and try to stay out of brawls whenever possible.

With that said, some long range quirks would be more appropriate than the weird ones currently offered for this chassis.

Edited by Joshua McEvedy, 01 November 2014 - 02:01 AM.

[Cygone]

OR1 is a brilliant brawler. Most of the quirks are fine. Stop running top of the weight class chassis as LRM boats and you will win more games.

LRM = Low ELO weapon.

[Tahribator]

I'm only bummed out by the UAC5 cooldown quirk for the K. On a 'Mech with single ballistic hardpoint and LOTS of free tonnage this weapon is almost never used. The cooldown bonus is also useless because UAC5 is fired with double tapping anyway. This bonus needs to be made an AC10/20 cooldown and speed bonus.

Otherwise the Orion is in dire need of some mobility quirks. It's incredibly sluggish, especially fitted with a STD300 which is what is being used on Orions mostly anyway.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lightfoot, on 31 October 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

No PPC buffs, no LRM buffs, I can't believe anyone working on this plays the Orion. MWO's Orion is not a Brawler, but it got all Brawler Quirks. Most Orions carry LRMs anyway, Kerensky's had a PPC and Gauss Rifle. Anyway, not the way I would play the Orion after using only them for 3 months. It's tougher at least. That's important for it.

No PPC buff I can understand. Kerensky had a Snub Nosed PPC:

Quote

ON1-K Kerensky
The personal BattleMech of Commanding General Aleksandr Kerensky during the war against the Usurper. Designers removed the LRM-15 and Autocannon/10 to make room for other equipment, adding an experimental Snub-Nose PPC in the left torso and an Artemis IV Fire Control System for the SRMs. The right torso has a Gauss Rifle in the former location of the autocannon. The medium lasers from the original model are retained. Finally, ferro-fibrous armor and CASE are used for added protection. BV (2.0) = 1,821[20]

But Missiles are a staple part of a basic Orion, both LRM and SRM.

[Turist0AT]

Im just gona stick my pe nose in here and say that brawl config is the only config is run on the orion. So for me Orion is a brawler.

Other than that i dont know if quirks are good or bad. The customazation is limited anyway(ex orbitrary heat), and quirks are making it more limiting in some cases like the victor quirks.

Im just salty that number of vaible builds are cut down so much.. escalating into a rant.. im stopping here.

[Thorn Hallis]

The quirks as a whole are just bandaids that are ment to hide failed design decisions. Don't expect much sense in 'em.

[UrsusMorologus]

PGI define roles as brawler=short-range, skirmisher=mid-range, support=long-range

M = brawler w/ LB10X and SRMs
K = skirmisher w/ UAC5 and MLs
V = support w/ AC5 and LRMs
VA = brawler w/ AC20 and SRMs
P = brawler w/ AC20 and SRMs

V is the only Orion I kept after mastery, and I use it as a long-range assault mech, and the buffs make some sense from that POV. I still think weapon quirks are a waste of time. I do not think the mechs should be forced into specific loadouts, nor should they be forced into specific roles, which is what this does.

ps--the Orion is XL friendly if you have enough time to torso-twist on incoming fire, which generally means non-brawler role. Russ has defined most of them as brawlers though, and you definitely need STD for that.

[Joseph Mallan]

nice way to define those builds Ursus!