41 replies to this topic

[BigBadVlad]

OK, got some unexpected money come my way and most of it is going towards debt and stuff but I'm likely going to treat myself to a new GPU.

Current spec:
Core i5 3790K running at 4.3 ghz
8GB ram
older 500 Watt PSU
SSD... blah blah
geforce 660

Game at 1080P on a nice'ish monitor, probably not getting a new monitor anytime soon, so likely going to stick with 1080

I'm thinking I should likely invest in a new PSU as well, it's a 3 or 4 year old Antec 500, have something like a 750W for about a $100 already which sucks cause that factors into the overall spend.

Can get either a His ICEqx2 R9 390 or an EVGA 970 for basically the same money. There is a rather sweet looking deal on a 680 ROG Poseidon (Water or air cooling) for about $250 more than the 390 or 970. I'm inclined to think the 980 is overkill for 1080P though and a little bit of a waste though....

Right now MWO is like the only game I play on PC but that could change over the next year, who knows... I've gone back and forth over the years being a Radeon fanboy or a Geforce fanboy. I can't help right now that maybe Red has an advantage over Green at this moment in time with some of their products, in particular the 8GB 390 over the 4GB 970...

Does MWO really perform significantly better on Nvidia hardware over the AMD?
I'm thinking the 390 is a better buy for me over the 970, yeah?

Thanks for your .02....

FYI the prices I'm looking at are $450 CAD for either the HIS 390 or EVGA SSC 970....
but that ROG Posiedon 980 looks pretty sweet for $620 and if I don't need to buy a new PSU....
Nvidia specs say the 980 uses 145W whereas the 970 is rated for 165W. Go figure...
I am tempted now, skip the power supply, stay with 8GB ram and spring for the 980 and don't OC it just to keep my older PSU happy....

Edited by BigBadVlad, 13 February 2016 - 11:56 AM.

[Goose]

Are any of these close?

Spoiler

XOV PSU Calculator component list
Motherboard: Desktop
Socket: Socket LGA 1155
CPU: 1 x Intel Core i7-3770K 3500 MHz Ivy Bridge
CPU Speed: 4350MHz
CPU Vcore: 1.55V
CPU Utilization: 90%
Memory: 2 x 4GB DDR3 Module
Video Card Set 1: 1 x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660
Core Clock: 980MHz
Memory Clock: 1502MHz
Keyboard: 1 x Standard Keyboard
Mouse: 1 x Standard Mouse
Computer Utilization: Always On (24/7)
Load Wattage: 360W
Recommended Wattage: 410W
Amperage: +3.3V: 8.6A, +5V: 8.6A, +12V: 28.1A
Recommended UPS Rating: 700VA
Generated by eXtreme PSU Calculator 2016-02-13 12:47:05

Spoiler

XOV PSU Calculator component list
Motherboard: Desktop
Socket: Socket LGA 1155
CPU: 1 x Intel Core i7-3770K 3500 MHz Ivy Bridge
CPU Speed: 4350MHz
CPU Vcore: 1.55V
CPU Utilization: 90%
Memory: 2 x 4GB DDR3 Module
Video Card Set 1: 1 x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980
Core Clock: 1126MHz
Memory Clock: 1750MHz
Keyboard: 1 x Standard Keyboard
Mouse: 1 x Standard Mouse
Computer Utilization: Always On (24/7)
Load Wattage: 386W
Recommended Wattage: 436W
Amperage: +3.3V: 9.8A, +5V: 8.6A, +12V: 30.0A
Recommended UPS Rating: 750VA
Generated by eXtreme PSU Calculator 2016-02-13 12:45:22

Spoiler

XOV PSU Calculator component list
Motherboard: Desktop
Socket: Socket LGA 1155
CPU: 1 x Intel Core i7-3770K 3500 MHz Ivy Bridge
CPU Speed: 4350MHz
CPU Vcore: 1.55V
CPU Utilization: 90%
Memory: 2 x 4GB DDR3 Module
Video Card Set 1: 1 x AMD Radeon R9 390
Core Clock: 1000MHz
Memory Clock: 1500MHz
Keyboard: 1 x Standard Keyboard
Mouse: 1 x Standard Mouse
Computer Utilization: Always On (24/7)
Load Wattage: 469W
Recommended Wattage: 519W
Amperage: +3.3V: 9.8A, +5V: 8.6A, +12V: 36.9A
Recommended UPS Rating: 900VA
Generated by eXtreme PSU Calculator 2016-02-13 12:46:02

Spoiler

XOV PSU Calculator component list
Motherboard: Desktop
Socket: Socket LGA 1155
CPU: 1 x Intel Core i7-3770K 3500 MHz Ivy Bridge
CPU Speed: 4350MHz
CPU Vcore: 1.55V
CPU Utilization: 90%
Memory: 2 x 4GB DDR3 Module
Video Card Set 1: 1 x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
Core Clock: 1050MHz
Memory Clock: 1750MHz
Keyboard: 1 x Standard Keyboard
Mouse: 1 x Standard Mouse
Computer Utilization: Always On (24/7)
Load Wattage: 379W
Recommended Wattage: 429W
Amperage: +3.3V: 9.8A, +5V: 8.6A, +12V: 29.4A
Recommended UPS Rating: 750VA
Generated by eXtreme PSU Calculator 2016-02-13 12:46:25

Also: http://www.jonnyguru...e=print&reid=35

http://overclocking....-1155-oc-guide/

Sooooo if you don't buy a new PSU …

[Catamount]

https://www.techpowe...CS_Plus/30.html

So, for the 390 vs the 970, the performance is about a wash. At 1080p, the 970 eeks possible a couple percent better (eg the measured differences possibly aren't even statistically significant), and at 1440p, the 390 about reverses that situation... so maybe statistically significant either way, but not noticeable. The 390 has more VRAM for future-proofing if that ever comes to matter, though more significantly it doesn't stutter above 3.5. The 390 does draw more power, though it's slightly cheaper. The 970 ships with Rise of the Tomb Raider.

Between them, I'd say 390 by a narrow margin, if performance is the only concern. If power efficiency matters or you want the game, and you don't ever plan to go above 1080p, get the 970. If you plan to game at 1440p or higher, I'd say 390 regardless of other considerations.

If you're thinking 980, then consider the 390x instead, again, unless power efficiency matters greatly to you. It's ~92% as fast, for only about 80% of the price. Again, the 980s are currently shipping with the game, though 390Xs are shipping with mice or additional rebates. As with the 390 vs 970, they're close enough deals that a good extra probably adds enough value to be worth it. Get the 390x if you plan to game at 1440p or above; that extra VRAM is probably going to come in handy going forward. The 390/390x already gain performance from 1080p to 1440p, the latter basically have the X and 980 being a wash.

There's no unambiguous "right" or "wrong" answer here. Just figure out which better-matches your use scenario.


Edit: I didn't notice the PSU; if you're not replacing that, get the 970 and pray the thing isn't already possibly explosion-prone

Edited by Catamount, 13 February 2016 - 10:58 AM.

[DeRazer]

Quite honestly, if you can hold off buying do so. The next Nvidia and AMD iterations are on a smaller chipset and will likely be significantly more powerful (x2) than current generation. And probably coming in the Summer...

Basically, come June you'll get a a 980Ti for the price of a 970 and cooler.

M@

[BigBadVlad]

Sorry guys, I knew I got that wrong.... it's a 3570K

thanks for the input so far.... yeah I was thinking should i try to go with a 970 and not buy the PSU.... I do run an SSD and 2 mechanical drives for what that's worth... and yeah Antec Earthwatts 500 3 or 4 years old I'm thinking... doesn't have an 8 pin PCIE connector, etc... I'd have to see if a molex to pcie adapter work would or something... not sure molex to 8 pin PCIE is even an option...

I'm inclined to think the 980 is just a waste, better to buy a new psu and 16GB ram kit. No big desire to spend another few hundred on 4K monitor... although I do love Lordred's 4K screen shot thread... guess I just going for making MWO look the best it possibly can at 1080P. I'm thinking the 390 or 970 should suffice.

I'm running everything at Very High within MWO at 1080 with FXAA right now and get around 60FPS typically.

I don't know much about SSAO or HBAO and some of the newer Ambient Occlusion stuff. Don't know if MWO supports it, or if it has to... I'm pretty sure TXAA is the best AA available and the game just dips into the 20-30 fps range right now on the 660.

So yeah sounding like kind of a wash between the 390 and the 970. Just can't help but think the 8GB on the 390 is good to have when all else is equal...

Thanks for the EA-550W review, info. Sounds like it basically is a pretty good PSU, it's just lacking on the connectors front. Maybe with the 970 I could skip the PSU I guess... I did see somewhere numbers that indicated the Nvidia 980 actually used less power than a 970 somehow... goes against typical reasoning but I suppose that's not impossible...

PS: heh yeah I know. can always wait just a few months for product XYZ, it will be so much better... That's always the case though. Eventually one day you just need to decide on something today. Something better is always around the corner, or so at least marketing would have us believe right?

Edited by BigBadVlad, 13 February 2016 - 11:37 AM.

[Goose]

We don't know the smallest Block II Maxwell that can run TXAA2x, but I'm dissatisfied with my framerate under TXAA4x on my GTX 980Ti.

I suspect both in-game AOs have been disabled; Attempts to get HBAO, from the nVidia driver, involve dropping back to DX9.

[Catamount]

There's positively no evidence, whatsoever, that the new architectures are going to enjoy anything that even remotely approaches a doubling of performance. We haven't seen that since Fermi/Evergreen, a near-eternity ago in computer years. They'll offer us a very modest improvement in total performance, with the biggest gains likely instead being lower TDP a la Maxwell vs Kepler due to the introduction of finfets.

At present, OP, I have to be honest, if the PSU is really getting old this is probably a good time to excuse replacing it. After that, get whatever you want. If you're just not up for it, then yes, get the 970. Pascal will be along at some point, but we don't even have the slightest tease of a release date it seems, so H1 of this year is unlikely... maybe Christmas?

Edited by Catamount, 13 February 2016 - 12:48 PM.

[xWiredx]

Well, there is a very strong belief by industry insiders that the next batch of GPUs will see roughly a doubling in performance per watt and slightly more than doubling of overall transistor amount per die. Then there's the move to GDDR5X and HBM2 on top of that. Performance being doubled might actually be a possibility. I think it might slightly miss that mark, but I wouldn't be that surprised if it did happen.

[Summon3r]

970 considering current power supply, may wanna consider upgrading that as has been said.

[BigBadVlad]

You guys have been no help at all!!!  
Joking... if anything all pretty good points, which makes the decision hard...
I was leaning towards just splurging on the 980 in the hope that it is more power efficient than the 970 and run with the PSU I have and just hope she's good. I've had nothing to indicate otherwise but I don't think they really give you much warning before they pop.
I'm trying to tell myself the 980 will not use too much power. The Earth watts 500 actually does come with two 6 pin pcie.
Actually I'm going to see if I can find what the GeForce 660 is rated at consuming for power... hmmmmmmHmmm so I'm a ******, of course the 980 uses more power than a 970...NV reference specs are 145W for 970, 165W for 980 and surprisingly 140W for my 660.... looks like the 970 should not be any harder than my 660 really....

Edited by BigBadVlad, 13 February 2016 - 03:28 PM.

[Catamount]

xWiredx, on 13 February 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

Well, there is a very strong belief by industry insiders that the next batch of GPUs will see roughly a doubling in performance per watt and slightly more than doubling of overall transistor amount per die. Then there's the move to GDDR5X and HBM2 on top of that. Performance being doubled might actually be a possibility. I think it might slightly miss that mark, but I wouldn't be that surprised if it did happen.

Keep in mind that although smaller processes often produce higher performance per watt, they also tend to increase electron leakage and therefore reduce the wattage you have to work with. This can be true of a lot of GPU changes. Maxwell is super power efficient compared to Kepler, but run a Maxwell like a Kepler, and it's going to die. Take it from a guy who tried: a modest TDP increase via the bios to 250 or 275 (don't remember which), 1500mhz rock-steady core on a 980TI, it sounds nice and ran cool enough (if loud) even on air, topped around 80, but the card still died in 2 weeks. It's the second GPU I've ever killed in my life, and the first stayed functional as a slave Crossfire card.

Edited by Catamount, 14 February 2016 - 10:36 AM.

[Flapdrol]

BigBadVlad, on 13 February 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

I'm trying to tell myself the 980 will not use too much power. The Earth watts 500 actually does come with two 6 pin pcie.
Actually I'm going to see if I can find what the GeForce 660 is rated at consuming for power... hmmmmmmHmmm so I'm a ******, of course the 980 uses more power than a 970...NV reference specs are 145W for 970, 165W for 980 and surprisingly 140W for my 660.... looks like the 970 should not be any harder than my 660 really....

You should look up reviews on techpowerup, many 970's and 980's have higher power limits for overclockability.

Or you could replace the psu as well and get a 390.

[BigBadVlad]

well I bought an EVGA 970 SSC ACX2.0 (Think that's it's name...)....

But I haven't opened it yet.... heh

One other plus for the Nvidia camp is you get Tomb Raider for free where AMD has no offers on the 390 right now, in Canada anyway... Does anyone know if there is a significant difference with Cry engine 3 between the AMD camp and the Nvidia camp?
I think I've seen it seems to run ever so slightly better on NV hardware but it's a small advantage, like 5% maybe or less?

[Goose]

TXAA is an nVidia thing …

If you start testing with TXAA, or just MSAA, turn on MFAA in the driver, and report back, please?

[Flapdrol]

BigBadVlad, on 14 February 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

One other plus for the Nvidia camp is you get Tomb Raider for free where AMD has no offers on the 390 right now, in Canada anyway... Does anyone know if there is a significant difference with Cry engine 3 between the AMD camp and the Nvidia camp?

It differs game to game, amd and nvidia cards have different strengths and weaknesses, and the big engines can use all features.

Amd cards do well with compute shaders so you'll see amd partnered games emphasize those.

Nvdia's does well with cpu overhead, geometry and tessellation, so nvidia partnered games push a lot of polygons.

[Kshat]

MWO is a tad smoother on nVidia-cards.
More importantly, for some reason MWO is heavily CPU-bound. If your frames dip low on some occassions, it's for CPU-reasons.
On this part, a GTX970 will perform better by a small margin.

If you play other titles than MWO, too, the 390 might be the better choice. But depends on that title.
A 500W PSU is more than sufficient for both cards - if it is of decent quality. Loads of PSUs got shiny "a trillion Watts" printed on top, but the actual power you can get out of their 12V rail doesn't even come close to what they promised.
Nevertheless, cheap PSUs will always be crap, regardless what they promise.

Antec mostly builds solid to good PSUs. If you want a cheap new one, a Superflower Golden Green or FSP with Active Clamp should be amongst those which deliver the best bang for your bucks. Btw, the new EVGA PSUs are just relabeled SuperFlower Leadex-PSUs, so they're really great.
If you can afford it, high quality PSUs from brands like Seasonic are always worth their money.

[Catamount]

Goose's review seems to indicate the OP's PSU is a Seasonic unit, and it performs well enough sans mediocre amperage on the 12v rails. It's just old.

[BigBadVlad]

So just an update, took the 970 back and decided to go whole hog with the 980. The 980 was $200 more after considering the increase for tax and the more expensive 2 year (IPR) Instore Product Replacement. Also had to buy a $12 6 pin to 8 pin pcie power adapter (included in that $200).

I got the last one which was an open box so I got another 5% off, figured I'm not settling for the "SMART" purchase this time!!! I'm getting what I really want... it's been running on the EarthWatts 500W for a week now.
Consequently I didn't think to measure my case for fitment until I was on the way home with it. Squishes into the Antec Sonata barely. The fan shroud is ever so slightly squished by the hard drive trays.

Happy anyhow, I think I've maxed everything via the Nvidia Control Panel settings, DSR 4.0X, max everything else, Very High within MWO and using MSAA as TXAA somehow appeared to look dull or something...

Going to maybe install and check the Nvidia Inspector tool to try and figure out and make sure I'm getting the best I can at 1080....

[Goose]

… So: TXAA here involves "our" PostAA, which in turn has a side order of FXAA.

My notes on FXAA is

r_PostMSAAEdgefilterNV <- is FXAA it has 3 settings Extreme blur, Less Blur and Extreme Sharp or High,Medium and Low might be a more correct naming

r_PostMSAAEdgefilterNV = 1 = High (Default)
r_PostMSAAEdgefilterNV = 2 = Medium
r_PostMSAAEdgefilterNV = 3 = Low
r_PostMSAAEdgeFilterNV = 0 = High

but since then, I've found, to the limits of my placibo, adding "r_PostAAEdgeFilter = 1" to go with "r_PostMSAAEdgeFilterNV = 0" does seem to turn the damn thing off.

Now: You have MSAA at it's default of 4x, and DSR all the way on?

You know you have to both turn on DSR in the driver, then pick one of them higher resolutions in the games' settings, right?

[Tropico_Thunder]

WAIT!. Later this year there will be a new chip coming out for graphics cards. The result will be a tremendous increase to performance even on the average card as I have read from some people who know more than me. Even if it turns out that they are out of budget the card that you are buying will be 10-20% cheaper. If there is any way you can just WAIT!