32 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Creovex, on 07 October 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

No thanks... I enjoy the non-symmetrical builds.... This is my CW mech if I stay Clan.

The solution on your end would be to simply not use the energy side torsos, or only use one of them.

GRiPSViGiL, on 07 October 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

Why would a poptart SMN be so bad? They really are built for it. For the most part poptarting is dead so why not?

Because ERPPCs are mostly inferior to Clan lasers unless you can boat them with Goose Waffles on a Dire Whale.

Mcgral18, on 07 October 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

As for the Summoner, we could always fake those G side torsi into the game, 3M per ST.

10 missile hardpoints would be pretty darn unique, even if it's Jihad era.

I would be so tempted to run 10 SRM2 like a complete doofus.

Edited by FupDup, 07 October 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

Mcgral18, on 07 October 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

It still gets more pod space and more useful hardpoints. Summoner gets JJs and more armour. Seems fair to me.

It would work. Although I'd be slightly happier with the extra energy hardpoints in the torso, because 1 medium laser at 1 ton is much more damage per ton than the need to load up on SRMs or LRMs. I think my ideal Summoner build would be 2 medium lasers in the right arm, 1 in each side torso, 2 SRM4 or SRM6 in the left torso, and a big ballistic weapon in the left arm.

[Ozric]

GRiPSViGiL, on 07 October 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

I know the Summoner is getting looked at for quirks and thought it would be great if one of those could be one that sped up projectile speed of the PPC. Seems with the JJ buff it will more than likely get that the PPC projectile speed buff could give it a role identity of a sniper of sorts.

I have been thinking about this myself and agree that the Summoner needs some quirkish buffs when the Clan pass comes around. As far as weapon specific quirks go a PPC buff for the Summoner Prime makes a lot of sense.

Of the three weapon systems it uses the other two have limited ammo as stock making the PPC is for sure the most important. It might make summoner PPC poptarts a thing, what with the JJ changes, but with PPC's as they are would that really be so bad?

Neither of the other variants warrant a PPC buff mind you, maybe a SRM or LRM buff for the B and a laser buff for the D instead?


Edit: I'm not throwing my vote directly behind a projectile speed buff for the PPC by the way, just the general idea that some manner of PPC strengthening quirk is a good idea for the SMN-Prime.

Edited by Ozric, 07 October 2014 - 08:00 AM.

[Ultimax]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 07 October 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

I don't really understand how PGI missed it. It's the same with the Warhawk. It has less free weight than the Dire Wolf.... and less hardpoints. How does that make sense on any level?

It doesn't make sense, but that's not PGI's fault.

These loads come straight from TT and PGI always treads a careful line when they change that stuff, because they have players who want blood if they try to improve things that came from ye olde sacred book of rules.

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 07 October 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Russ Bullock said in the Town Hall meeting that the Timber Wolf will always be best. Well, why does it have to be so much better than the Summoner?

He said that because it's 75 tons, optimal spot and because it was designed in TT to be a supreme heavy Mech.

The Summoner needed to have it's geometry changed, but would it still be the Summoner?

I think you should be able to remove JJs and add Endo, but some guys on the forums would throw a riot.

They'd rather the Timber Wolf be held to the same silly JJ rules than improve the Summoner. - I can live with and adapt to this change even though it outright removes some builds, but the Summoner isn't suddenly better because the TBR-S is forced to eat JJs it doesn't always want or need.



That's how these forums work, something not working out for your mech?

Don't grab the life preserver, instead just hold someone else down so you can both drown together.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 07 October 2014 - 08:49 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

Ultimatum X, on 07 October 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

It doesn't make sense, but that's not PGI's fault.
These loads come straight from TT and PGI always treads a careful line when they change that stuff, because they have players who want blood if they try to improve things that came from ye olde sacred book of rules.

Beyond needing 1 hardpoint for every weapon in the stock loadout, PGI can do whatever they want with the hardpoints. They could give the Warhawk Prime 8 energy hardpoints in both arms, if they wanted. It might actually give us something to do with all those DHS' we can't remove.

Instead of giving us a Clan assault mech with 1 hardpoint in its ballistic arm, they could have given us 2 or 3, so we could equip a pair of CUAC5s instead of the terrible CUAC20 or LBX20.

Ultimatum X, on 07 October 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

He said that because it's 75 tons, optimal spot and because it was designed in TT to be a supreme heavy Mech.
The Summoner needed to have it's geometry changed, but would it still be the Summoner?
I think you should be able to remove JJs and add Endo, but some guys on the forums would throw a riot.

First of all, there's plenty of things they could have done to avoid making the Timberwolf heads and shoulders above all other mechs, effectively forcing them to buff just about every mech in the game to keep up with the TBR. Just think about that. 1 mech is too powerful? What's the easy fix? Buff every other heavy mech in the game. How does that make sense?

But anyway, they could have given the Timber Wolf worse core stats like acceleration, decceleration, turn rate, torso twist, arm mobility, twist speed or arm speed. They could have picked three TBR variants that didn't have jump jets.

Ultimatum X, on 07 October 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

That's how these forums work, something not working out for your mech?
Don't grab the life preserver, instead just hold someone else down so you can both drown together.

Let's not go there in every thread.

[Foxwalker]

Creovex, on 07 October 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

No thanks... I enjoy the non-symmetrical builds.... This is my CW mech if I stay Clan.



It was regarding the fact they were NOT removable that they were going to get a perk, not because they had max number.

I found the quote in the October Roadmap:

ETA: Oct 7th patch.

Jump Jet Thrust
Since the adjustment of JJ thrust, along with fall damage, we have seen 'pop-tarting' gameplay decrease to a much more acceptable level. I think everyone agrees this is a positive step for MWO. However, I think certain 'Mechs, well-represented by the Summoner (who takes 5+ JJ into combat), are not receiving enough of a benefit for taking them into battle. I am going to be making a small adjustment to allow the thrust to increase a little bit faster as you add more JJs. This will make those 'Mechs feel a little more mobile and give more advantage to 'Mechs that dedicate more space to JJ.

I hope they do not delay this....

[Metus regem]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 07 October 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Yeah, seriously. Isn't there a Summoner variant out there we can loot some omnipods from?

The Summoner makes absolutely no sense at all. There's a few decent builds you can run, but 90% of any combinations you can think of turn out to be absolute crap. Why? I'll tell you why.

The Summoner has less hardpoints than the Timber Wolf, and less free tonnage due to lack of Endo. Let me say it again. Fewer hardpoints, less free tonnage. It means you're forced to carry bigger weapons, and you don't have enough weight to do it. Doesn't that seem a bit counter-intuitive? Wouldn't it make sense to give mechs with less available weight... more hardpoints? So they could make up for their lack of free weight with the ability to boat several smaller weapons?

I don't really understand how PGI missed it. It's the same with the Warhawk. It has less free weight than the Dire Wolf.... and less hardpoints. How does that make sense on any level? Except to embrace the Timber Wolf and Dire Wolf as the clan mech master race?

Russ Bullock said in the Town Hall meeting that the Timber Wolf will always be best. Well, why does it have to be so much better than the Summoner? If the Summoner had more hardpoints for some extra medium lasers, it wouldn't be restricted to a small handful of builds. And why can't at least 1 of our two torsos with missile hardpoints have 2 or 3 hardpoints like, oh, pretty much every other heavy mech out there? It's another reason why you see so few Summoners that don't actually have the iconic missile launcher. You need the arms for energy and ballistic hardpoints, and it's pretty suboptimal to have a single LRM15 or SRM6 on your shoulder.

You know how many mechs have 2 or 3 missile hardpoints in either side torso? Not counting light mechs or hero mechs, it's... Centurion, Hunchback, Griffin, Kintaro, Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Stormcrow, Dragon, Quickdraw, Thunderbolt, Orion, Timber Wolf, Mad Dog, Awesome, Victor, Battlemaster, Stalker, Highlander, Atlas, Warhawk and Dire Wolf.

Bah! Moar hardpoints for the Summoner, and we may one day see less than 80% Timber Wolves among Clan heavies.

I think that if the Summoner had true Jump Jets as in she could jump up 10-20m and 150m forward, we'd see the mech be used the way it's meant to move. The way that JJ's currently work, hinder the Summoner so badly, I sort of feel bad for Jade Falcon players, to have a totem mech (signature clan mech), that is a shadow of table top version. At least we Ghost Bears have the Mad Dog, and she is beastly, if used right. The Wolves have their Timber Wolf, and the Jag's have the War Hawk and Dire Wolf...

Part of the problem for the Summoner is that she is being directly compared to the Timber Wolf, both since they are heavies, and for some reason they gave us the S load out for the Timber Wolf, that's at least a year too early, we should have gotten the D. The poor Summoner has always been over shadowed by the Timber Wolf, always will be, but if she were to get good working JJ's, she'd be beastly when used in a manor she is meant to be used.

[kapusta11]

+5 tons Ghost tonnage
+1 Ghost Energy hardpoint in each arm

Seems legit.

[LordKnightFandragon]

MeiSooHaityu, on 07 October 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Cool. We will have a Summoner poptart...*sigh*

The Summoner shoulda been the Clan poptart from the getgo..Timber S? naw....

[Bishop Steiner]

GRiPSViGiL, on 07 October 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

I know the Summoner is getting looked at for quirks and thought it would be great if one of those could be one that sped up projectile speed of the PPC. Seems with the JJ buff it will more than likely get that the PPC projectile speed buff could give it a role identity of a sniper of sorts.

I gotta be careful here. LAst thing I want is for it to become a "go-to" jumpsnipe platform. Would prefer simple agility buffs and cooldowns to increase it's brawling ability.

[Tristan Winter]

No jump jet bonus today.

Maybe next patch.

I am disappoint.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Maybe a quirk on the prime's right arm that makes the ER PPC in that arm, and only that arm, do 15 to the target location. I know I would kill for a quirk like that on my Adder if it used all prime omni pods.

Maybe the left arm gets quirks to drastically reduce spread on LB-10X & LB-20X, UAC10 & UAC20s get faster bursts and some projectile speed increase.

Mostly just thinking of the prime right now, with so few hard points I wouldn't mind if the weapons it carried there were beefed up.

[Tristan Winter]

Rouken, on 07 October 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Maybe a quirk on the prime's right arm that makes the ER PPC in that arm, and only that arm, do 15 to the target location. I know I would kill for a quirk like that on my Adder if it used all prime omni pods.
Maybe the left arm gets quirks to drastically reduce spread on LB-10X & LB-20X, UAC10 & UAC20s get faster bursts and some projectile speed increase.
Mostly just thinking of the prime right now, with so few hard points I wouldn't mind if the weapons it carried there were beefed up.

The ADR-PRIMe with dual CERPPCs is my favourite Clan light mech. But I think it needs a heat efficiency bonus like the AWS-8Q, so it can spam CERPPCs all day without overheating.

A damage bonus for the Summoner would be nice though, I agree.