419 replies to this topic

[RG Notch]

Zoid, on 08 October 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

If you're pissed because you can't choose between deathmatch in one spot and deathmatch in multiple spots, you're an entitled brat and should just go away.

Not according to Russ.

[Mercules]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 08 October 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

Russ himself told us to use that recourse.

"vote with your wallet" - Town hall Oct 2

Youre mad that ppl took that advice?

I'm not mad at all. What I am trying to point out is that if it was giving in to financial pressure it is setting a bad precedent. Here is why.

With this poll it is unlikely that those that voted Yes are ALL going to stop playing or paying money to PGI. This is just due to the nature of the change. I would prefer it fail over to other game modes because frankly all three play very similarly and ANY mech can contribute in all three modes. So I'd rather see better matchups in Elo than sticking to a particular game mode. So I'm not as likely to just vanish because I'm already reasonable.

However, in a future poll there is a good chance that BOTH SIDES will threaten to leave and take their money elsewhere. What is PGI's response going to be then? That is my point. That is why I am disgusted with a poll showing many wanting it... more than not... and PGI still rolling it back before they even let the poll run for a week or the changes a chance to run for a while.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Hardin4188, on 08 October 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

I don't speak for everyone, but I don't normally complain in game. That is where combat is supposed to occur. Complaining is for the forums and I post more about what bothers me then what I am happy with. If everything is ok people don't post saying "I'm so happy everything is awesome." Most posts on a forum are about complaining about something. Because nothing will change if you are a silent and if you are silent it means you are ok with the way things are.

Yeah Im a completely different person in game (ppl who have dropped with me know this)

Hell I dont even have (all) enabled

[Domenoth]

I am not upset the change was reverted. I will be upset if the disconnects and TK's go unpunished.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 08 October 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Go ahead, youll get banned for alt f4ing

problem solved

What leg would PGI have left to stand on to punish Belorion if they don't punish the people who misbehaved in-game rather than using the proper channels to express their discontent? I am extremely concerned about setting a precedent of giving in to selfish and destructive behavior.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mercules, on 08 October 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

However, in a future poll there is a good chance that BOTH SIDES will threaten to leave and take their money elsewhere. What is PGI's response going to be then? That is my point. That is why I am disgusted with a poll showing many wanting it... more than not... and PGI still rolling it back before they even let the poll run for a week or the changes a chance to run for a while.

Oh youre not wrong there. Ive said as much in the past about past riots etc.

Domenoth, on 08 October 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

I am not upset the change was reverted. I will be upset if the disconnects and TK's go unpunished.

What leg would PGI have left to stand on to punish Belorion if they don't punish the people who misbehaved in-game rather than using the proper channels to express their discontent? I am extremely concerned about setting a precedent of giving in to selfish and destructive behavior.

Which is why the people SHOULD be punished for this and I agree

[AlphaToaster]

Destructicus, on 08 October 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

So what about the people who voiced their opinion in favor of the change? I guess those voices don't matter right?

The group that voted yes can continue selecting ALL modes.

I'm going to pickup some premium time for girlfriend and I on Friday to show support. I'm glad that with a larger sample size, we reached higher participation and technically that would mean the 2nd poll has a result closer to accurate. Not saying it's representative of the whole community but I believe it is more accurate than the first poll with only 1500 participants.

Now at this rate if we could get a poll going on ghost heat, we can start fixing this game.......

[Roadbeer]

So, here is my theory behind what happened.

With all options selected, by those who didn't care what mode they played in, the MM would take that and have a 1 in 3 chance of creating a (lets say conquest for example) conquest game. So now, MM is taking those who didn't select Conquest and would fill the game with them.

All things being equal, if you didn't have an ability to select more than one mode (something we all campaigned for a long time ago) then I believe the odds of being put in a match you didn't want would have been <20%, but with a number of conquest matches being created by those ambivalent to their game mode, spawned a lot of 'undesirable' mode matches.

[Greenjulius]

Shredhead, on 08 October 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Bullied into submission. Disgusting display of how reactionary this community can be.

Yeah, it's sad to see the loudest complainers get their way, but it was inevitable. I actually liked the improvement in ELO... I hope this doesn't discourage Russ from trying new things.

Keep at it! I like trying new things! I'm sure a large part of the community isn't unfortunately.

AlphaToaster, on 08 October 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

Now at this rate if we could get a poll going on ghost heat, we can start fixing this game.......

I don't think I want to see super alpha builds ruling matches again. I hate ghost heat as much as the next guy, but it's a stopgap to reduce what is a much bigger problem. Until a better idea comes forward to reduce 80+ point alphas, I don't see ghost heat going away.

Edited by Greenjulius, 08 October 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[Pendraco]

DEMAX51, on 08 October 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

https://twitter.com/...923381140205568

[Mazerius]

So who else that normally had all 3 modes selected is going to untick skirmish mode now? I know I am, because the tone and outright QQing in a lot of the posts against the change let me know exactly what kind of folks I would be playing with, and the laughable comments Ive seen about how conquest/assault "have no shooting in them" makes me doubt some of these players would understand fire discipline well enough not to shoot me in the back.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Pendraco, on 08 October 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

what what?

Mazerius, on 08 October 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

So who else that normally had all 3 modes selected is going to untick skirmish mode now? I know I am, because the tone and outright QQing in a lot of the posts against the change let me know exactly what kind of folks I would be playing with, and the laughable comments Ive seen about how conquest/assault "have no shooting in them" makes me doubt some of these players would understand fire discipline well enough not to shoot me in the back.

You need a broader brush

[Mawai]

Fut, on 08 October 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Listening to the people, but ignoring the 1433 people who voted in favour of the change.
All this does is reinforce the idea that if you complain hard enough, you'll get your way.

No. It doesn't.

If you want to participate in all three game modes ... click all three ... you get the same functionality (except possibly slightly worse matchmaking in the group queue) ... it did not make ANY improvement in the solo queue. Folks who said YES STILL have access to all of the capability they want.

There is no reason for a solo queue player to fight for the YES side except to watch the tears as they force other players to play game modes they don't like in mechs that aren't appropriate for that mode. There is no advantage or benefit of either system for solo queue players who choose all game modes.

On the other hand, IF you want this in the group queue since it appears that it can make a difference there ... I suggest you speak up and ask specifically for a group queue implementation of this feature.

Edited by Mawai, 08 October 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[Bilbo]

Mazerius, on 08 October 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

So who else that normally had all 3 modes selected is going to untick skirmish mode now? I know I am, because the tone and outright QQing in a lot of the posts against the change let me know exactly what kind of folks I would be playing with, and the laughable comments Ive seen about how conquest/assault &quot;have no shooting in them&quot; makes me doubt some of these players would understand fire discipline well enough not to shoot me in the back.

I might but I only had 2 selected to begin with. I have a sinking feeling though that if I do I'll have to play assault as well as conquest and I truly loathe the Assault game mode right now.

[Mystere]

Mercules, on 08 October 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

What is the point in holding a poll if people won't vote but instead after forfeiting the right to influence the outcome can whine and have things changed?


Yeah, PGI probably had to do this, but where were all these people who didn't want the change during the original poll?

Some people have said they did not see or know about the poll.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mystere, on 08 October 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Some people have said they did not see or know about the poll.

hence why I think that coding an in game poll is worthwhile use of dev cycles

[Mawai]

Greenjulius, on 08 October 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

Yeah, it's sad to see the loudest complainers get their way, but it was inevitable. I actually liked the improvement in ELO... I hope this doesn't discourage Russ from trying new things.

Keep at it! I like trying new things! I'm sure a large part of the community isn't unfortunately.



I don't think I want to see super alpha builds ruling matches again. I hate ghost heat as much as the next guy, but it's a stopgap to reduce what is a much bigger problem. Until a better idea comes forward to reduce 80+ point alphas, I don't see ghost heat going away.

Huh ... I assume you mean in the group queue?

http://mwomercs.com/...me-mode-voting/

As Russ as stated the change made NO significant difference to the Elo balance in matches in the solo queue. NONE.

So if you actually liked the improvement in Elo then you were ONLY playing group matches .. correct?

If that is the case then you should get behind a movement to keep the feature in group matches and dump it from the solo queue.

[Abivard]

Even with a stacked and biased poll question in favor of the changes, a very short time frame to vote, and a very selected electorate that was able to participate and it barely cracked 50%.

Damn right it should be restored to the way it was before.

if the poll question had been

Yes, I want the game to select modes for me.
No, I want to be able to select game modes.

What would the numbers have been?

I would wager as many as half the people who voted saw this;

Better ELO MM
OR
Select your mode.

One or the other, cant have both.

[Shredhead]

Mawai, on 08 October 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

B.S.

I actually view it as enlightened leadership.

The premise was that the change would improve Elo matchmaking.

Based on preliminary numbers cited by Russ ( http://mwomercs.com/...me-mode-voting/ ) the change had NO effect and resulted in NO significant improvement in the solo queue. There is thus absolutely NO argument in favour of making players participate in game modes they don't like in the solo queue.

There was a measurable effect in the group queue. It is also possible that the change in the group queue enabled the match maker to more easily match large groups against other large groups. Both of these are positive effects (and PGI should actually cite the telemetry data for these) so it is actually worth considering keeping this for the group queue and that is the question they should be asking since in that case there REALLY are improvements in matchmaking that might justify giving up the ability to choose game modes.

In my opinion, it was an idea worth testing (it would have been nice to do a statistical analysis before implementation to see if it would actually make any difference) but when they found out that it doesn't do anything useful in the solo queue then I think the responsible move is to turn it off and re-evaluate. Kudos to PGI for doing that.


P.S. Someone suggested a 10% cbill bonus for players that select to play all 3 game modes when entering a match. I think this is a great way to encourage participation, possibly create better matches, without forcing folks to play in modes they despise.

Hey, I'm not even that opposed to reverting it, just pissed about the way the whole thing went down. Russ stated the poll would stay up a whole week. People started blackmailing, team killing and disconnecting, and after not even 24 hours the thing gets reversed.
That's rewarding the stunts these people pulled off, and I find it disgusting.

[Mazerius]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 08 October 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

what what?



You need a broader brush

How is that over generalizing when Im refering specificly to posts Ive "read" personally today and yesturday, and thats a LOT of posts.

[Mercules]

Mystere, on 08 October 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Some people have said they did not see or know about the poll.

And? So they abstained through ignorance?