31 replies to this topic

[GRiPSViGiL]

So most people hate conquest. I love it due to being a BF tryhard through and through but I don't necessarily love it the way we do it in MWO.

I am not so worried about the group queue because you can't always balance some of the units out there based on the skill they possess in the first place. However, the solo queue showed a vast improvement in match quality due to the 10/7 changes to Matchmaking to only then be ripped away by the whiners who don't like conquest. Fair enough. Though if the MM can balance teams like it did the solo queue I definitely want the group queue matched in the same manner. So let's take the time to really rework Conquest so that it is a valid playable mode for most people and we can get the better matchmaking process put back into place.

If any mode could use respawn it is conquest. Dropship mode with Rush or Conquest objectives are something I could sink my teeth into. So that may be a discussion point for ways to improve it or make it more enjoyable for others. I think everyone can admit the cap timers are really to long to allow for much of a dynamic game. Best way to win currently is to blob up and brawl it out on dispersed smaller enemy groups to then clean up or cap. When it didn't take 3 mins to cap I loved conquest and you had plenty of opportunities for some interesting skirmishes anywhere on the map between points. If we can get back to that I think we can get to where it needs to be.

So some of the things I like that might give Conquest its due as a valid game mode are:

Respawn - Dropship mode revisited.
Speed up the cap timers.
Remove the time limit - no need for a time limit when the max ticket count will end the game.
Give lights/mediums quirks for faster capping.
Give a multiplier for capping by having more than 4 mechs on a point.


I think respawn with no time limit will bring Conquest to it full potential of a game mode long with some other tweaks here and there. I realize not everyone wants to play certain maps or game modes but I don't have any sympathy for those who wish to limit certain parts of the game because they can't or refuse to adapt. If your unit has to defend a certain planet with a certain ecosystem then deal with it.

Please add your suggestions and let's get this ironed out so we can get the better MM back.

[Davers]

Something really needs to be done with Conquest. We already have 2 other Rock Em' Sock 'Em Robot game modes. My suggestions would be:

1. Remove the small maps from Conquest and spread the cap points out on the bigger maps. You shouldn't be able to stand in one point and shoot into another one.

2. Caps should be fast. If you don't leave mechs behind to guard cap points then you should not be able to respond to a cap in progress from across the map.

3. I like lights and mediums getting bonuses for capping.

I really think where MW:O really shines is in lance on lance battles. I really wish we had more important objectives to split up the death blobs. Imagine LoL without the jungle, Baron, or Dragon. You would end up with 3 different approaches to the enemy Nexus and the best way to win would be to throw everyone into one lane and push. This is exactly what we have now in MW:O. I wish we could have more than that.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Great points Davers. I really like spreading out the cap points.

[LordKnightFandragon]

I am with you 100% OP. Conquest could totally be so much more then it is.

Ofc, we would need alot of new maps for it, or lessen the number of cap points from 5 to like 2 or 3. Maps like River city barely support 1 cap point, let alone 5.....

Only Alpine, Mining Collective, Mordor and maybe Canyon are big enough to support 5 caps and it not be a total cluster....

[Dock Steward]

I agree that the number of cap points should be relative to the map's size.

I do not, however, agree that Conquest is the only mode in need of a rework nor do I believe that it is the only mode people don't want to play. I know plenty of players who hate Skirmish and didn't want to be forced to play it. I'm not trying to derail a thread that is clearly aiming to be productive, but then again, the OP didn't have to start off by calling people "whiners."

[Davers]

Dock Steward, on 08 October 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

I agree that the number of cap points should be relative to the map's size.

I do not, however, agree that Conquest is the only mode in need of a rework nor do I believe that it is the only mode people don't want to play. I know plenty of players who hate Skirmish and didn't want to be forced to play it. I'm not trying to derail a thread that is clearly aiming to be productive, but then again, the OP didn't have to start off by calling people "whiners."

Honestly, all the game modes are pretty lackluster. They would all benefit to having important and useful secondary objectives. I had really hoped since the beginning that there would have been more of a "mission feel" to the game, rather than feeling like an arena shooter. Kind of like a First Person MechCommander.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Dock Steward, on 08 October 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

...the OP didn't have to start off by calling people "whiners."

That is a fair assessment but I have noticed much more complaints over conquest on the forums and in fact seen people state it was the reason they would exit the game. Which happened twice in games I was in for the short time we had the new MM yesterday.

I don't think the new MM was even given a chance by many only because they didn't wan to play certain game modes. I don't prefer to play assault but I don't rage quit when I get that mode.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 08 October 2014 - 10:49 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Davers, on 08 October 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

Honestly, all the game modes are pretty lackluster. They would all benefit to having important and useful secondary objectives. I had really hoped since the beginning that there would have been more of a "mission feel" to the game, rather than feeling like an arena shooter. Kind of like a First Person MechCommander.

Aye - you need primary objectives: Capping for Assault and Conquest

Conquest:
for example on Conquest its not a win when your capping points are less or equal 33% of the opposite team.
If one team reaches 700 it could never become a victory - only a tie

interesting idea - about mediums... a medium mech that defends a cap point may get more c-bills for each point of damage it deals (would be interesting to have the WoT mechanic -where shooting at a capping target may be enough to disrupt the capping process)

Assault - TicketSystem
Cappint - 10 ticks, killing 1 tick, dying -1 tick (first team with 10ticks difference win (or team that has 15 points first)

[EvilCow]

My suggestion is to introduce the new Dropship Mode in Conquest and Assault modes, leave Skirmish at what it does best, quick furious games, it is the only game mode where the 15 minutes limit makes sense.

The new Conquest and Assault would much more like real battles:
1) One hour time limit.
2) Four mechs per player like planned for CW. After using the 4 mechs a random champion mech (light or medium) would be provided in order to make impossible to win by simply killing enemies.
3) Spawn points defended by dropships.
4) Rewards strongly objective-oriented.
5) Limited to very large maps.

I think it would be plenty fun and it would reuse things already in the work for CW.

Another idea: Small maps could be reworked into a new "king of the hill" mode, one single objective in the center, it would be a "new" game mode reusing the conquest code. Time limit would be 15-20 minutes.

[Sirius Drake]

You got some very nice ideas here.
Pity it will not change a god damned thing.
The peeps that took care we loose the new MM will do so again because they hate conquest.
They hate every Game mode that isn't Deathmatch.
With the ideas we would of course get a better vote next time (though i still hope i will never see a vote on gamemechanics again).
But we would not get the demanded 80%.

[EvilCow]

Sirius Drake, on 08 October 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:

The peeps that took care we loose the new MM will do so again because they hate conquest.

"They", which includes me, do not necessarily hate the idea of multi-objective game modes, they hate the poor thing that Conquest is.

The right approach is to improve the poor game modes not to force people to play them. Do not take away, give more

[Vassago Rain]

How to improve conquest.

1) up the income.

Done.

[Sirius Drake]

EvilCow, on 08 October 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

"They", which includes me, do not necessarily hate the idea of multi-objective game modes, they hate the poor thing that Conquest is.

The right approach is to improve the poor game modes not to force people to play them. Do not take away, give more

YOU! HOW DARE YOU TO START A PRODUCTIVE TOPIC! YOU ARE THE ENEMY!!!
...
That's why i said i guess we would get better votes ;-)
I know that quite some people woul play conquest with a few changes.
I just doubt it would be enough to reach the insane 80% target.
Mind you, with the changes you might as well lose a few conquest players that play conquest at the moment.

[Elizander]

It's not just conquest really.

• I'm in my scout mech. I don't want to be in Skirmish.
  
• I have my Capture Accelerator equipped, I don't want to be in Skirmish or Assault.
  
• I'm in my brawler, I don't want to chase lights for caps so I just want Skirmish.
  
• I'm in my slow-ass mech, I don't want Conquest.

And a million other reasons that have popped up in the various threads that were created when it was patched in.

[EvilCow]

Sirius Drake, on 09 October 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

Mind you, with the changes you might as well lose a few conquest players that play conquest at the moment.

Probably yes, but if changes are handled with a vote like the last one, and if there is a consistent agreement on what constitutes an improvement then there would not be a problem.

Alternatively this new and improved Conquest could be introduced as "Battle" mode or some other name keeping the existing mode.

[Sirius Drake]

EvilCow, on 09 October 2014 - 12:05 AM, said:

Probably yes, but if changes are handled with a vote like the last one, and if there is a consistent agreement on what constitutes an improvement then there would not be a problem.

Alternatively this new and improved Conquest could be introduced as "Battle" mode or some other name keeping the existing mode.

Well, let me put it that way:
I had my doubts in the Council idea. Not because of the idea itself but because we are a....very.....special....community.
The poll yesterday showed me one thing: we aren't able to work together in a productive way.
With the community as it is at the moment we are (in my opinion) not able to break 80% in a poll about changes in game mechanics. I would be surprised if we manage to break 65% in a topic like that.
We seem not to be able to find mutual agreements. There will always be a lot of reasons why people don't want x or y (like yesterday). And we, as community, seem not to be able to trade-off some of our wishes for the benefit of others.
I never saw a game with so many so different ultimate-truth-statement and people unwilling to change their point of view.

Edit:
Don't get me wrong. I like the OPs idea. He would get my support. But look at the post. You already have people here that give a **** about the initial idea and just posting their version of a better conquest mode. And it has almost nothing in common with the initial idea (dramatisation! But you get my point).

Edited by Sirius Drake, 09 October 2014 - 12:41 AM.

[lordoverboard]

I had the feeling, that most people that dont like conquest mode dont like it because of the simple fact that they dont want to CAP instead of shooting mechs.

I dont think you can make this mode any good for these people, as long as caping is a valid(?) win option.

[Elizander]

sirzorn, on 09 October 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

I had the feeling, that most people that dont like conquest mode dont like it because of the simple fact that they dont want to CAP instead of shooting mechs.

I dont think you can make this mode any good for these people, as long as caping is a valid(?) win option.

Most of the money comes from shooting mechs. Now if they can make a cap victory override the c-bills earned from shooting mechs then we will see teams go for the cap win more often. This will avoid ridiculous gains from 11-0 cap wins and will normalize earnings from 0-11 cap wins.

Edited by Elizander, 09 October 2014 - 01:16 AM.

[Farix]

There is already another thread about how to improve conquest, why create another just to repeat the same ideas that were brought up in the other thread?

[EvilCow]

sirzorn, on 09 October 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

I had the feeling, that most people that dont like conquest mode dont like it because of the simple fact that they dont want to CAP instead of shooting mechs.

I dont think you can make this mode any good for these people, as long as caping is a valid(?) win option.

The problem is that capping does not involve fighting.

In the TC mode of MWLL bases were:
1) Defended by turrets (self repairing after some minutes).
2) Very large, the fight was very often inside a large base.

Taking a base would often mean attacking it and taking it from defenders, then setup a defence force to keep it. It was epic and games could last an hour with the teams often changing a desperate situation, there was no avalanche effect: lose 2 mechs and you are done for.