57 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

Ferro, Endo, fixed AP?

SSW gives 86/89 for efficient armor. That gives you 172pts in MWO, and 6.2 tons free. Clan ferro is 8% lighter than the IS stuff?

So, that might give you those .3 tons.

It only has 172 armor available? The commando gets 178 max. This thing keeps getting stinkier and stinkier. Mist Stinks indeed.

[627]

Greenjulius, on 09 October 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

It actually has up to 8... the prime and 2nd model have 1 and 2 energy hardpoints, bringing it to 7 or 8. Zombies!!!

You can't zombie with an XL...

[Mcgral18]

Greenjulius, on 09 October 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

It only has 172 armor available? The commando gets 178 max. This thing keeps getting stinkier and stinkier. Mist Stinks indeed.

That's rounded to the nearest ton. It has the same 25 ton mech 178 cap, but you'll drop between 6.5 and 6 tons of pod space if you go above that.

.36 wasted tons. You might as well drop 6 points off the head to get that extra half ton. Dual gauss would hurt you badly regardless.

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 October 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[Deathlike]

Labrats Assemble!

[Greenjulius]

627, on 09 October 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

You can't zombie with an XL...

True, but 125kph (or 114 before speed tweak) just screams, "shoot me with dual gauss."

The 150+ spider and commandos are more survivable simply because latency makes people shoot just behind them. I'm sure you have all seem those lovely examples of spiders and commandos taking minutes to kill despite laser fire flying all around them.

I watched one Commando who DC'd and was stuck running top speed in a circle, survive over 2 minutes of laser and AC fire. Shots registered, almost no damage to the mech itself. It took me lodging my Atlas in front of it to stop the little *******.

Still the funniest thing I've ever seen in MWO.

Edited by Greenjulius, 09 October 2014 - 12:37 PM.

[Greenjulius]

627, on 09 October 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

You can't zombie with an XL...

I think I missed your original meaning. True, you can't lose both side torsos. What I mean, is if you lose both arms and a side torso, you can still fight with your Center torso. Not many clan mechs have energy hardpoints in their CT.

[Angel of Annihilation]

ThomasMarik, on 09 October 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

That isn't true. You can do it strait up from the B build. You just have to sacrifice .5 tons or armor to put in the Jesus box. That gives you dual gauss with 4 tons of ammo.

The podspace calculations above are incorrect for the Hellbringer. ITs 26.5 for the prime and 28.5 for the others.

His calcs are made based on full armor. 26.5 tons on the prime is still 3 tons short of max armor.

[TheMadTypist]

You know, if the builds suck with full armor, maybe running not-quite-full armor is the way to go? hanging around the battlefield isn't worth much if you can't do anything with the extra time, right? Where you're able to safely skimp is mostly down to hitboxes though, which we won't know until we have the 'mechs in our hands.

Interesting point- it looks like the medium is due out before the light, according to the release schedule. Get those wily ferret builds going!

Now, the more important aspect- silly names! I still prefer the Tinfoyl, the Missed Lynx, the Iced Ferret, and the Loogie (Okay, I used the IS name, sue me). Depending on how they model the Gargoyle, the "Fightn' Fivehead" may also be appropriate. Or "Face O' Tank"

[Greenjulius]

TheMadTypist, on 09 October 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

You know, if the builds suck with full armor, maybe running not-quite-full armor is the way to go? hanging around the battlefield isn't worth much if you can't do anything with the extra time, right? Where you're able to safely skimp is mostly down to hitboxes though, which we won't know until we have the 'mechs in our hands.

Interesting point- it looks like the medium is due out before the light, according to the release schedule. Get those wily ferret builds going!

Now, the more important aspect- silly names! I still prefer the Tinfoyl, the Missed Lynx, the Iced Ferret, and the Loogie (Okay, I used the IS name, sue me). Depending on how they model the Gargoyle, the "Fightn' Fivehead" may also be appropriate. Or "Face O' Tank"

I think the Smellflinger is most likely to succeed out of them all simply because of ECM and the impressive number of hardpoints. The Prime Left Torso has ECM and 3 energy mounts all on its own! If the torso pivot is decent, it might even make for a clan version of the Shadow Hawk. That would officially make it my favorite mech in the game. "Look ma, no arms!" It has a reasonable engine size too, giving it plenty of tonnage and pod space to work with. There are honestly very few drawbacks to this mech.

Let's not talk about the Mist Linx.

The Ice Ferret is going to run hot no matter what we do to it. Just not enough space after that big 360XL engine in a 45 tonner. The best builds seem to ignore ballistic and missile weapons too, like the 4xMPL or 4xML+Narc builds I posted earlier.

The Gargoyle suffers from the oversized engine a bit too, but not nearly as much as the Ice Ferret. It has much great potential to boat ML+DHS or a combo of that and LPL/MPL.

I'm going to the scatological names, because my humor will be forever defined by 14 year old me. Smellflinger/bringer, Mist Stinks / **** Stinks, Nice Gerbil. I have no idea about the Man O War / Gargoyle. Flower Child, Child O Love?

Edited by Greenjulius, 09 October 2014 - 07:13 PM.

[Ultimax]

Greenjulius, on 09 October 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

It even has zombie mode options with the CT energy mounts.

There is no such thing as Zombie mode for clan mechs.

When you lose both STs, you are dead.

[Greenjulius]

Ultimatum X, on 09 October 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

There is no such thing as Zombie mode for clan mechs.

When you lose both STs, you are dead.

You didn't see my response...

Greenjulius, on 09 October 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

I think I missed your original meaning. True, you can't lose both side torsos. What I mean, is if you lose both arms and a side torso, you can still fight with your Center torso. Not many clan mechs have energy hardpoints in their CT.

So perhaps we can call it a "half-zombie?" Recently turned?

Edited by Greenjulius, 09 October 2014 - 07:57 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Greenjulius, on 09 October 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

I think the Smellflinger is most likely to succeed out of them all simply because of ECM and the impressive number of hardpoints. The Prime Left Torso has ECM and 3 energy mounts all on its own! If the torso pivot is decent, it might even make for a clan version of the Shadow Hawk. That would officially make it my favorite mech in the game. "Look ma, no arms!" It has a reasonable engine size too, giving it plenty of tonnage and pod space to work with. There are honestly very few drawbacks to this mech.

Let's not talk about the Mist Linx.

The Ice Ferret is going to run hot no matter what we do to it. Just not enough space after that big 360XL engine in a 45 tonner. The best builds seem to ignore ballistic and missile weapons too, like the 4xMPL or 4xML+Narc builds I posted earlier.

The Gargoyle suffers from the oversized engine a bit too, but not nearly as much as the Ice Ferret. It has much great potential to boat ML+DHS or a combo of that and LPL/MPL.

I'm going to the scatological names, because my humor will be forever defined by 14 year old me. Smellflinger/bringer, Mist Stinks / **** Stinks, Nice Gerbil. I have no idea about the Man O War / Gargoyle. Flower Child, Child O Love?

I've actually built a Cute Fox with 6 JJs to simulate the Koshi...and it's actually not as bad as I thought. You can nearly get 200M horizontal distance, and can scale quite a few buildings. If the 25 tonners get some IS buffs like the Lolcust, it might be...useable.

Though, I don't think ECM will be an effective loadout, or not efficient, at least. 3 ERMLs, 2 SRM2s, and your choice of a dHS, 150 or 250 missiles sounds alright.


Man o'Wub should be fun, but not very effective since they have the exact same heat as ERMLs, but almost no advantage for twice the tonnage. 28 DHS and 8 ERMLs would run pretty cool.


Fenris, I hope gets that M+E arm instead of either or, since that alone would make it much better. As it stands, it's a faster BJ1X with less than half the pod space. Not terrible, but could be so much better.

[Greenjulius]

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

I've actually built a Cute Fox with 6 JJs to simulate the Koshi...and it's actually not as bad as I thought. You can nearly get 200M horizontal distance, and can scale quite a few buildings. If the 25 tonners get some IS buffs like the Lolcust, it might be...useable.

Though, I don't think ECM will be an effective loadout, or not efficient, at least. 3 ERMLs, 2 SRM2s, and your choice of a dHS, 150 or 250 missiles sounds alright.

Have you run the Kitfox often without ECM though? It doesn't have the same survivability that an ECM equipped variant has. If I have the option to run ECM... I just can't bring myself to skip it. I also feel 2xSRM2 won't bring enough power to warrant the 2.5 or 3.5 tons that could be used to mount a LPL or ERLL instead. I just can't find a config I can see being remotely competitive. At least the kitfox has 14.5 tons to work with once max armored. That allows it to run some nasty splat builds with lots of ammo. The Koshi/Mist Lynx... Not enough tonnage to do much more than energy.

I can see some people emulating those annoying ECM+ERPPC builds, only with the Clan ERPPC. It might be effective as a harasser, but won't have the ability to flee fast lights.

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

Man o'Wub should be fun, but not very effective since they have the exact same heat as ERMLs, but almost no advantage for twice the tonnage. 28 DHS and 8 ERMLs would run pretty cool.

Fenris, I hope gets that M+E arm instead of either or, since that alone would make it much better. As it stands, it's a faster BJ1X with less than half the pod space. Not terrible, but could be so much better.

I agree completely. The most viable build I can come up with is the 8xERML builds stuffed with DHS. Perhaps a Clan Computer stuffed in for a little extra range?

The Ice Ferret is an odd mech. I really can't decide whether I like it or not. I like the Hellbringer for sure, the Gargoyle to, and I don't like the Mist Lynx. The Ice Ferret has real potential as a fast striker with the 4xERML+Narc config. It'll just run hot.

Keep the ideas coming! I'm frustrated waiting for these mechs and need something to occupy my mind!

Edited by Greenjulius, 09 October 2014 - 08:19 PM.

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

Too slow.

While Clan Wub is very disappointing, you can do 8 MPLs without an issue,

The CLPL has grown on me and is one of my favorite Clan weapons.

Just have to get over the idea that it actually has a "shorter beam" like an IS LPL and treat is as a heavier, more damaging LLAS.

I still think you should try the WUBCROW!

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

Man o'Wub should be fun, but not very effective since they have the exact same heat as ERMLs, but almost no advantage for twice the tonnage. 28 DHS and 8 ERMLs would run pretty cool.

Looks a touch hot, but probably workable.




(P.S. You can actually ALPHA ALL THE THINGS safely, just once though)

Greenjulius, on 09 October 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

You didn't see my response...

I'm tired, cut me some slack.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 09 October 2014 - 08:19 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Ultimatum X, on 09 October 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

Looks a touch hot, but probably workable.

(P.S. You can actually ALPHA ALL THE THINGS safely, just once though)

Oh, I like this. Thanks for running the numbers! I just checked out the Online Heat simulator and it looks like you're right. Even with ghost heat, it can alpha all 8 and stay under 70%. (With skills elite'd of course) That 2nd shot will have to be delayed, but this big guy is shaping up to be something of a cooler, but fatty Nova. I'd probably put a Clan Computer on it for a little extra range, but this mech will need lots of DHS.

Putting the ERML into two groups of 4 makes the heat very easy to deal with however.

[Mcgral18]

Greenjulius, on 09 October 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

Have you run the Kitfox often without ECM though? It doesn't have the same survivability that an ECM equipped variant has. If I have the option to run ECM... I just can't bring myself to skip it. I also feel 2xSRM2 won't bring enough power to warrant the 2.5 or 3.5 tons that could be used to mount a LPL or ERLL instead. I just can't find a config I can see being remotely competitive. At least the kitfox has 14.5 tons to work with once max armored. That allows it to run some nasty splat builds with lots of ammo. The Koshi/Mist Lynx... Not enough tonnage to do much more than energy.

I can see some people emulating those annoying ECM+ERPPC builds, only with the Clan ERPPC. It might be effective as a harasser, but won't have the ability to flee fast lights.

I've been running a Cute Fox without a couple times tonight. I used to enjoy the WubFox, but 150% heat kind of killed it.

SRM2s are the most tonnage efficient, and have good spread. 2 second cooldown makes them a nice annoyance. Can't really fit streaks.

Swap the left arm for a MJB, get SRM4s from that 1 ton instead of a ML. I don't see a single PPC being very good. But, it can certainly jump.

[Sergeant Random]

FupDup, on 09 October 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Oh...double brainfart then. It's sure getting smelly in here...

Just dont do that in the cockpit of an overheating mech. Flammable gases and all...

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

I've actually built a Cute Fox with 6 JJs to simulate the Koshi...and it's actually not as bad as I thought. You can nearly get 200M horizontal distance, and can scale quite a few buildings. If the 25 tonners get some IS buffs like the Lolcust, it might be...useable.

Though, I don't think ECM will be an effective loadout, or not efficient, at least. 3 ERMLs, 2 SRM2s, and your choice of a dHS, 150 or 250 missiles sounds alright.

Unlike the Cute Fox, I'll likely end up running one build w/o ECM (something like your loadout suggestion). I do think it has the possibility of being a mediocre Spider-troll/Spider-5D substitute for the Clans. Most Spider builds don't involve JJs... so the # of JJs (being fixed and all) AND the JJ "readjustments" would allow it to troll from higher locations... at the same level as the Spider-5K (or better, because it's lighter).

Quote

Fenris, I hope gets that M+E arm instead of either or, since that alone would make it much better. As it stands, it's a faster BJ1X with less than half the pod space. Not terrible, but could be so much better.

If you treat it kinda like the Centurion-D with a large XL engine, it could be the most annoying Clan Medium that is as fast as a IS Light. That is my actual hope for the mech.

Edited by Deathlike, 09 October 2014 - 10:38 PM.