25 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

I don't get it, I can fire 2x2ac within 0.51secs without ghostheat. But when we want to use them as the better sounding dakka by spamfiring them in a row we do get ghostheat. That makes no sense, there is absolutely no advantage from any point of view that this different firemode gives except awesome sound. I really do not undertsand the townhalls description of why we can not have ac's 2's without ghostheat. But yet I can spamfire my 6 lbx or 6 UAC's iny direwolf without ghostheat penalty.

[Kavoh]

Didn't they say the knocking around/screen blinding was considered griefing with AC/2s because of the fire speed or something? Idr

[El Bandito]

PGI still hadn't figured out that simply reducing the impulse would solve all of AC2 related griefs and Ghost Heat would be no longer necessary for that weapon. AC2s need their heat reduced, anyway.

And DAKKA JAGER can finally come back.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 October 2014 - 11:32 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

This game needs to bring the AC2's back as an alternative to ER LL and gauss for long range suppression and control.

One of the two things I miss from owning the Jagermech was the sound of Quad AC2's. Even if it was a terrible build, I just enjoyed the sound.

(The other thing I miss was running Quad UAC5s when the Jagermech was newly released and just demolishing any mech that dared to step in front of me, untill I ran out of ammo. Even Atlai would try to tank me and fail, because they didn't have any experience with that build.)

[EvilCow]

I agree, AC2s, LBX2s need less heat and AC2 ghost heat should be eliminated or start from 5 weapons onward. 4xAC2 are canon in some several mechs too so why limit that?

Reduce impulse and annoyance instead, the damage is not that great.

[Lily from animove]

Kavoh, on 08 October 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

Didn't they say the knocking around/screen blinding was considered griefing with AC/2s because of the fire speed or something? Idr

by that logic, how is that 2x ac 2 fire more worse than spamming 6 ac 5's from dakkawolf? I see your point, but that logical punishment is then inconsistent by the abilities we have to do that with other mechs and loadouts. its not an ac 2 exclusive feature.

and when it is THAT much of a big deal, they shoudl reduce the impulse and its fixed.

[theta123]

The whole point of the AC/2 was surpressive fire, At the moment dual gauss cowards dominate the long range battlefield. A Quad AC2 was a great tool to surpress these ridge peeking minions!

Also quad AC2 was not that powerfull even in the past when its ROF was higher.

[SaltBeef]

The Direwolf shoots Paintball Cantelopes not high Pinpoint front loaded shells.

[Victor Morson]

theta123, on 09 October 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

The whole point of the AC/2 was surpressive fire, At the moment dual gauss cowards dominate the long range battlefield. A Quad AC2 was a great tool to surpress these ridge peeking minions!

Also quad AC2 was not that powerfull even in the past when its ROF was higher.

Problem: Someone with an AC2 must have killed Paul when he was managing things
Solution: KILL THAT AC2 IT IS THE DEVIL

Pretty much all I can figure happened. The huge nerf it took recently is even more hilarious.

[Lily from animove]

SaltBeef, on 09 October 2014 - 01:24 AM, said:

The Direwolf shoots Paintball Cantelopes not high Pinpoint front loaded shells.

what? an ac 2 is per shot much like a stream of ac 5 bullets form a clan and similar pinpoint. and when you go ful dakka with quad ac 2 it is as less pinpoint as a clan ac5. Well actually ac 5 bulletstream is a lot more than ac 2 dakkafire. you probably never stood in front of a 6xCUAC5 Wolf getting spammed by its ultramode fired UAC's ac 2's are empty paintballs compared to that dakkawolf.

Edited by Lily from animove, 09 October 2014 - 02:20 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

El Bandito, on 08 October 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

PGI still hadn't figured out that simply reducing the impulse would solve all of AC2 related griefs and Ghost Heat would be no longer necessary for that weapon. AC2s need their heat reduced, anyway.

And DAKKA JAGER can finally come back.

Impulse and all the 'splosions all over the screen...

[FupDup]

The LB 2-X gets a cooldown module, but it's a shotgun...

[Bishop Steiner]

theta123, on 09 October 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

The whole point of the AC/2 was surpressive fire, At the moment dual gauss cowards dominate the long range battlefield. A Quad AC2 was a great tool to surpress these ridge peeking minions!

Also quad AC2 was not that powerfull even in the past when its ROF was higher.

cowards? Hyperbole much?

It works, and with charge, takes a fair bit of effort to be GOOD at it. Not to mention they tend to be mediocre at CQB against more mobile targets

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 08 October 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

PGI still hadn't figured out that simply reducing the impulse would solve all of AC2 related griefs and Ghost Heat would be no longer necessary for that weapon. AC2s need their heat reduced, anyway.

And DAKKA JAGER can finally come back.

I agree, however without the impulse you take away half of the reason the AC/2 was any good at suppression at all. It's still a DoT weapon and it will still lose to the guy boating dual gauss at long range because he's just going to peak up, blast you because he's not getting rattled and can aim, and then take cover while his guns cycle. If you could carry more ammo per ton for the AC/2, it would make suppressing fire a more viable tactic. It's hard to do that when every shot is precious.

[RockmachinE]

I've noticed AC2s don't register well that's why I stopped using them. Half the hits won't register especially if its coupled with a bigger AC. It'd still be a viable weapon if all the hits registered.

Bishop Steiner, on 09 October 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

It works, and with charge, takes a fair bit of effort to be GOOD at it. Not to mention they tend to be mediocre at CQB against more mobile targets

Holy **** you guys seriously have to stop making using gauss appear harder then it is. Its ludicrously easy to use. Just charge before you peek or hit that corner or keep charging during a fight. Its easy. Its actually FUN without the mechanic it'd be boring to use. Quit whining about this. And they're devastating at CQB if your aim is half decent, they're an all range weapon.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 09 October 2014 - 07:23 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Louis Brofist, on 09 October 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

I've noticed AC2s don't register well that's why I stopped using them. Half the hits won't register especially if its coupled with a bigger AC. It'd still be a viable weapon if all the hits registered.



Holy **** you guys seriously have to stop making using gauss appear harder then it is. Its ludicrously easy to use. Just charge before you peek or hit that corner or keep charging during a fight. Its easy. Its actually FUN without the mechanic it'd be boring to use. Quit whining about this. And they're devastating at CQB if your aim is half decent, they're an all range weapon.

who was whining?

Yes, Gauss is still easy to use. It still is mediocre for snap shots (aka CQB) as the whole point is you don't get to decide when the Light comes around the corner that's hunting you.

Also, if it's so easy, I trust your hit percentage is well over 75% with it? and you are regularly shooting at Lights at 1800k and hitting? (Also assuming you led the Heavy Mech leaderboard?)

Otherwise, stop with the epeen hyperbole.

It's quite usable, but the charge mechanic, as intended does limit it's effectiveness in a number of scenario.

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 October 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

I agree, however without the impulse you take away half of the reason the AC/2 was any good at suppression at all. It's still a DoT weapon and it will still lose to the guy boating dual gauss at long range because he's just going to peak up, blast you because he's not getting rattled and can aim, and then take cover while his guns cycle. If you could carry more ammo per ton for the AC/2, it would make suppressing fire a more viable tactic. It's hard to do that when every shot is precious.

If you aim near the enemy cockpit, you can still blind the enemy mech with AC2 explosions. That can suppress the enemy well enough.

[MoonUnitBeta]

SaltBeef, on 09 October 2014 - 01:24 AM, said:

The Direwolf shoots Paintball Cantelopes not high Pinpoint front loaded shells.

C-UAC-5 shoots 3 bullets for 1.67
Lets say you just have 4 of them.
If one bullet of the 3 hit for each weapon, that's 6.68 damage.
If two bullets of the 3 hit for each weapon, it's 13.36 damage.
If all three hit for each weapon, it's 20.04 damage.

If a x4 AC2 jager hits with all 4 AC/2's, it does a max of 8 damage. Which is only 1.32 more damage than a Direwolf whom has worse aim than an armless sharpshooter. In the same cycle time to refire 4 AC2's, you can fire all 4 UAC5's twice. Which is 40 damage.
Assuming you have only a 33% accuracy with the direwolf and UAC5's and were aiming at the CT, you would still put out 13 damage. And depending on how things go, can also put out 13 damage to the LT and RT.

In terms of heat scale, UAC5's are pretty much the same, but for a higher damage output, stepped heat generation (you don't get all the heat at once for one big shot), and the fact it being a clan weapon...

Not even going to talk about caliber, tonnage, jamming, weapon weight, ammo restrictions, range, etc. BECAUSE we are comparing apples to oranges, however your point is argueing that a quad AC2 jager has higher pinpoint than a direwolf (with quad AC5's for comparison's sake).
If we discuss damage pershot, a quad direwolf is just slightly under that of a jagermech.
In terms of "rattling" the opponent.
The impulse of AC/2 is 0.038
The imuplse of C-UAC-5 is 0.033, but fires three impulses in quick succession each. For the duration that a good direwolf pilot can dish out 40 damage, the opponent is nearly blind the entire time.

Anyways, make of that what you will... Just remember that there's lots of other points to argue about, but I'm not interested in those. The 4 first pinpoint single bullets from C-UAC-5 does 6.68 damage. The Jagermech quad AC2 does 8.
Comparing just that, direwolves don't look like very cantaloupey. I think the UAC 5's could use a heat boost, and the AC2 get lowered.

But yes... I have seen some direwolves with some pretty lousey accuracy... and all those bullets just going to waste haha

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 09 October 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Revis Volek]

theta123, on 09 October 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

The whole point of the AC/2 was surpressive fire, At the moment dual gauss cowards dominate the long range battlefield. A Quad AC2 was a great tool to surpress these ridge peeking minions!

Also quad AC2 was not that powerfull even in the past when its ROF was higher.

So you get killed by gauss from a distance....a lot. Sorry to hear that, dry those tears though. I'd glady show you how lethal my SCR is with 3 Er Med and 1 guass at close range if that would make you feel better? Or the Timby with 6 Er Med and gauss? Your choice, they do it all well.

[DasSibby]

I've been saying this very thing for a while now, and I totally agree!

Bring back my Dakka Jaeger! It was my first mech, and I miss it! (Reduction in screen shake and impulse is fine... just give me back my Dakka! Give the IS some counterpart to the Dakka Whale!)

Edited by DasSibby, 09 October 2014 - 08:17 AM.