26 replies to this topic

[Rhaythe]

How about:

Support mechs are like bras. They hold up what's really important, keeping everything protected and in place.

[UrsusMorologus]

Rhent, on 10 October 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Heavy: Catapult - Their heavy hitting firepower is missiles, all of which are put in oversized arms that are extremely easy to hit. Toss in a very easy to Head shot head in the CT and you have a fail mech.

That's the risk component to being able to spam out mass LRMs from the rear, anybody that makes it back there can kill you easily

Gotta say this thread is harmful to the idea of Thinking Man's FPS

[Rhaythe]

UrsusMorologus, on 10 October 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Gotta say this thread is harmful to the idea of Thinking Man's FPS

What game do you mean?

</sarcasm>

[Rhent]

UrsusMorologus, on 10 October 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

That's the risk component to being able to spam out mass LRMs from the rear, anybody that makes it back there can kill you easily

Gotta say this thread is harmful to the idea of Thinking Man's FPS

There are medium mechs that can spam LRM's better than a Catapult, with better hard points and survivability. The Cat is a fail mech in its current incarnation. A Kintaro, Griffin or Trebuchet can do the job significantly better than a cat can as a SRM or LRM boat.

[Reverendk]

UrsusMorologus, on 10 October 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Gotta say this thread is harmful to the idea of Thinking Man's FPS

If you've got your signed and numbered certificate of authenticity for your entry into the High Elo Low Drag lifestyle mounted on your wall you likely know what truths I'm about to spit, but for those that are still waiting on the frame store let me illuminate this text field with a little bit of high elo knowledge.

Some people want to live the lisa mouse one button fantasy and build mechs accordingly. Some people want to manage multiple weapon groups, multiple engagement ranges, and multiple reticles. Both groups of people are well within their rights as Americans, honorary Americans (High Elo makes you free), or even some kind of moose loving beatnik, but let's not turn this into a discussion of social contract theory.

We can wax philosophical about how well or poorly PGI has implemented roll warfare, but if people want to purpose build their mechs for roles that they want to aspire to like skirmishing, scouting, or even the much maligned support then more power to them. My incarnation of the support mech is a mech that carries a mixed selection of weapons so that regardless of how hard in the yard the team is going, the mech can be doing something. Something with both long and short range capabilities. What the general populace might call unoptimized.


Cheers
KR
IPMTDFIARI (I put my thing down, flip it, and reverse it, if this is still a mystery)
HELDCGGFTFFPOHITCE-GNPGCNTFCLEEWPA-JURSSRNPCRSOLD Clan

[IceSerpent]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 10 October 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

The term 'support mech' gets thrown around a lot. "It's a good support mech". I don't quite understand the term, because it's not usually used about LRM boats or specific builds that require other teammates to protect it from certain situations. Like, I would call the NARC+TAG+AMS+ECM Kitfox (let's call it the MacGyver, since it has a lot of tech but doesn't do much damage) a support mech.

The Kitfox can fill that role better than any other mech in the game, so it's actually a support mech.

But people seem to use the word 'support mech' about mechs like the Dragon, the Thunderbolt, the Vindicator or the Awesome. It's my contention that the MacGyver Kit Fox is the only real support mech in the game. I dare say there's not a lot that so-called support mechs can do, that the regular tier 1 mechs can't do better.

When people say 'support mech', they seem to mean "This mech can do damage as long as other teammates get all the attention from enemy mechs." But by that definition, every mech in the game is a support mech. That makes no sense to me.

Normally, a support unit is one that can't function effectively without another unit. I.e. arty requires a spotter. In MWO we have that (LRM boats act like arty, Kit Foxes need someone to spot for or to protect), but we also have people using the term to mean "bad build". I guess they just think it sounds nicer or something.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 10 October 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

The term 'support mech' gets thrown around a lot. "It's a good support mech". I don't quite understand the term, because it's not usually used about LRM boats or specific builds that require other teammates to protect it from certain situations. Like, I would call the NARC+TAG+AMS+ECM Kitfox (let's call it the MacGyver, since it has a lot of tech but doesn't do much damage) a support mech.

The Kitfox can fill that role better than any other mech in the game, so it's actually a support mech.

But people seem to use the word 'support mech' about mechs like the Dragon, the Thunderbolt, the Vindicator or the Awesome. It's my contention that the MacGyver Kit Fox is the only real support mech in the game. I dare say there's not a lot that so-called support mechs can do, that the regular tier 1 mechs can't do better.

When people say 'support mech', they seem to mean "This mech can do damage as long as other teammates get all the attention from enemy mechs." But by that definition, every mech in the game is a support mech. That makes no sense to me.

Pretty simple. It provides some sort of support role.

For example

LRM boat. These typically can only provide long range indirect fire support while generally being unable to contribute in the front lines due to lack of direct fire weapons.

ECM light support - Generally speaking these guys are primarily going to focus on sticknig with the group to provide ECM support and increase their teams chances of victory. In alot of cases they do this at the expense of firepower.

Harassment Support - Usually fast lights or mediums that may or may not use ECM, but focus on harassing and disrupting the enemy. By themselves they can't usually win a match (unless it is really late in the match and they are just finishing off damaged enemies) but their presence makes it easier for the team to win the match.

Mid-line Support - These are mechs that can't stand at the front of battle but excel standing behind the front lines and providing direct fire into those enemies distracted by your front line mechs. (These are your Dragon, Thunderbolt , Vindicator and Awesome by the way).

Multi-role support - These are hybrid mechs designed to do a bit of everything. They might have LRMs backed up by MLs and SRMs or be fast mediums that have the speed and mobility to play the flanks but not enough armor to stand in battle.

Then there are the front line mechs like the Atlas, Timber Wolf, Dire Wolf, Battlemaster, Cataphract, Warhawk, Some Stalker builds, Banshee, and several others. These are the guys that should be in the front lines hammering it out with the enemy.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 10 October 2014 - 10:25 AM.