141 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

AztecD, on 10 October 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

make the weapons cooler overall or adjust the Heatsinks to actually disipate heat, i mean a 19 SHS awesome cant fire 3 PPC (30 heat) without almost shutting down, it should shoot 1 maybe 2 alpha shots to be in the same heat level as 1 current alpha with SHS

If i upgrade to double, then DOUBLE my heatsink capability, i can make a 21DHS 3PPC awesome and still melt myself in a few voleys

I doubt SHS even do anything.....I put like 4 extra DHS on the Victor I rebought and made, heat loss is barely noticeable. I had a Centurion and with its like 2 extra DHS it barely moved the bar. when I played it stock, the heat didnt move at all...this wiht like 4 extra SHS...

I swear, SHS need a buff of sorts and DHS can go up to where they need to be...which is what? 2? Double? wierd how that works....they arent named One point 4 heatsinks....

[Karl Marlow]

The increased damage over time is only part of the problem. In Table Top you don't concentrate damage the way you do here. Now I'm not really on either side of the fence when it comes to Pinpoint like we have it now or a cone style targeting system. However Either we should keep the way Armor is handled in TT and do the cone system or we should reevaluate how armor is handled to balance against the Pin Point damage system.

I'm ot one who thinks we should ignore the core rules. I think they should be a good baseline to work from. When it comes to Rate of Fire, targeting and armor we have an odd mishmash. I would rather Armor be an overall value with the mech having weak point you can target.

Edited by ThomasMarik, 10 October 2014 - 10:50 PM.

[Tombstoner]

Adiuvo, on 10 October 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

That is where preemptive movements come into play - where counterplay exists. You can always see loadouts.

Torso twisting can be hard. This isn't a bad thing. The difficult parts of any game is where skill is demonstrated.

See, this is a fundamental disagreement that really highlights the two different camps in this game.

Facetanking is easy. It requires no effort. It's a facet of lazy, poor play. I don't think it should be rewarded, at all. Playing like that should always result in you getting killed, quickly.

In the end, this is a PvP competitive shooter. CW is the core of the game, which in itself is rooted in competitive play. For play to be competitive, differences in skill need to be highlighted.

I agree completely, but at the same time should not be exploitative of/or hampered by a flawed game system. if armor is fixed and face tanking is viable imagine the tanking in the hands of a skilled pilot. skill and teamwork is a fore magnifier.

[Tombstoner]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 October 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Actually, in random rolling of 2d6, 7 is by far the most common total number combo. Add in the fact that a 2 also hits CT (critically, no less) and a 12 hit the head (most of which MWO mitigates to CT) and you are well above 17% hitting CT. In fact, on average closer to 30% CT hits, on a RNG game. Which is why, not coincidentally, there is such a huge differential in CT armor vs ST armor, even in TT.

Exactly and what is the hit frequency now. i'll bet its gone up asymmetrically across all mechs. But you high light the main flaw people blame on convergence and pin point accuracy. The simple fact is armor allocation limits and effective levels of protection are lagging badly. that could be tweaked and not be paper cut warrior online.

[Tombstoner]

ThomasMarik, on 10 October 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

I would rather Armor be an overall value with the mech having weak point you can target.

This could be done but it has been noted that you need a system the lets you loose arms and legs. You could have a single health pool but with different damage modifiers per location. 1x damage to the ct, 1.1 to torsos and 1.2x damage to the arms/legs. record damage done by location and pop an arm and leg at predefined percentages, but it effectively kills armor customization.

I would rather see a change in max armor allowed by location and let players strip more armor off other sections as desired. this would also be done with a rework of FF armor. FF should be a standard choice for tanks.

If that was allowed i expect we would see more stream lined weapon load outs with non meta weapons doped in favor of more armor.

Edited by Tombstoner, 11 October 2014 - 05:41 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Lordred, on 10 October 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

No on should expect that, ever.

But instead of slinging mud around, would you be interested in some constructive criticism?

How about this one:
Standing around hosing down a mech for 30 seconds because all weapons are pathetically weak is the exact opposite of fun. This is what will happen with the suggested changes. It also largely eliminates the need for any tactics besides "point and shoot", "focus fire" and "keep target in weapon range", because anything else would take so much time compared to what little extra damage you'd deal it wouldn't be worth it.

[Thrudvangar]

Adiuvo, on 10 October 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

I'm not sure how high TTK needs to be for certain people to be satisfied.

It takes ages already unless you're facetanking or walking into a group of 5 people.

ages? go play IS medium with XL enginge, then repeat your post. /facepalm

yeah it takes ages, to kill somebody in a is medium because lack of weapons compared to clanners of any kind and IS heavies and assaults...

to get killed as an is medium pilot... well, boom boom and thats it with all these high ranged ******* weapons everybody mounts.

Edited by Thrudvangar, 11 October 2014 - 05:51 AM.

[Zoid]

We don't need more TTK, we need better camping deterrents so that you're not likely to have 8 'mechs all focusing you down at once. In other words, it's not the Dire Wolf's firepower that's the issue, it's the fact that both teams will have 3 of them camping out and waiting for a target to show up, then all shooting at once.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

Low grade redneck tech(as redneck tech has the option to see everything around you) is still tech.

Kirkland Langue, on 10 October 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

Technology? You are sitting in a giant humanoid robot that doesn't have a rear view mirror.

[KraftySOT]

Zoid, on 11 October 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

We don't need more TTK, we need better camping deterrents so that you're not likely to have 8 'mechs all focusing you down at once. In other words, it's not the Dire Wolf's firepower that's the issue, it's the fact that both teams will have 3 of them camping out and waiting for a target to show up, then all shooting at once.

Thats the same thing.

If you didnt die instantly when cresting a hill...youd crest a hill more often.

Between the LRMs and Pin Point Convergence, its Sitzkrieg...because youre so frail...even in assault mechs. Once you stop camping, youre dead. And then its 4 more minutes until you can get in another match waiting on the damn queue.

So you camp. Its the smartest thing to do.

Edited by KraftySOT, 11 October 2014 - 07:53 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Thrudvangar, on 11 October 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

ages? go play IS medium with XL enginge, then repeat your post. /facepalm

yeah it takes ages, to kill somebody in a is medium because lack of weapons compared to clanners of any kind and IS heavies and assaults...

to get killed as an is medium pilot... well, boom boom and thats it with all these high ranged ******* weapons everybody mounts.

That's your fault for sticking an XL engine in lol.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Zoid, on 11 October 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

We don't need more TTK, we need better camping deterrents so that you're not likely to have 8 'mechs all focusing you down at once. In other words, it's not the Dire Wolf's firepower that's the issue, it's the fact that both teams will have 3 of them camping out and waiting for a target to show up, then all shooting at once.

but smart people know patience and "camping" or defense is the way to go in a small ass map, where there is no room for flanking, where the teams are even in number......assaulting or advancing is the way to defeat.....

The best strategy in this game is to sit back and wait for the enemy team to send in their few guys who think attacking is a good idea....then when you have them 3-0, you make probing attacks, try to lure more fools out and kill them as they poke up.....



This vid is pretty much what I mean.....and in the end, Sean's team won like what? 12-2? 12-1? lol....

If we had much bigger maps, where flanking around would even be possible without being spotted, maybe people would camp less. I know I have a hard time even moving anywhere without having 10 guns pointing at me....its like dayum....move to a corner, then move up to try to find something to shoot and its wham, bam, LRM lock, PPC to the head...laser to the leg, Gauss to the nutz....slam the mech in reverse and go back to my hidey hole....

Bigger maps would make this game more fun.....that or go back to 8v8s...less mechs, more room to move....

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 11 October 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[Dock Steward]

LordKnightFandragon, on 11 October 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

Bigger maps would make this game more fun.....that or go back to 8v8s...less mechs, more room to move....

I really liked 12 v 12 when it first came out, but 8 v 8 would probably help with a LOT of things. MM would probably be able to build teams with closer Elo's, the small maps wouldn't be so cluttered....could be a good move for the devs to consider.

[Kirkland Langue]

LordKnightFandragon, on 11 October 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

The best strategy in this game is to sit back and wait for the enemy team to send in their few guys who think attacking is a good idea....then when you have them 3-0, you make probing attacks, try to lure more fools out and kill them as they poke up.....

This isn't really true.

Different maps have different "best strategies". and, in fact, "sitting and waiting" is actually one of the worst strategies on a number of the maps.

Probably the most "general best strategy" is actually to attack one of the enemies' sides and overwhelm a lance that spawned too far from the rest of the group. Ring around the rosie, killing the slowest, happens on a few maps and is very effective. Deathballing into the enemy is another good strategy.

Sitting and waiting turns into "waiting for Arty Strikes to get a lucky headshot on someone in your group so that you are forced to blindly charge". Or it turns into waiting for an enemy light to run through, and when your entire team turns to shoot on it - the enemy crashes into the backs of your mechs. not to mention the light dropped an arty on you, a UAV above you, and your team is spraying each other with friendly fire hoping to get assists on the light.

[Zoid]

KraftySOT, on 11 October 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

Thats the same thing.

If you didnt die instantly when cresting a hill...youd crest a hill more often.

Between the LRMs and Pin Point Convergence, its Sitzkrieg...because youre so frail...even in assault mechs. Once you stop camping, youre dead. And then its 4 more minutes until you can get in another match waiting on the damn queue.

So you camp. Its the smartest thing to do.

So instead of cresting a hill and losing your entire 'mech, you crest and lose half your 'mech. Camping is still the issue.

With the exception of the Dire Wolf, most 'mechs really don't put out an extreme amount of DPS. Two Assault 'mechs who are properly twisting and spreading damage are going to be fighting for a while. The issue here is not damage, it's that you're extremely likely to take 4+ alpha strikes to the CT if you do anything but camp.

[KraftySOT]

Zoid, on 11 October 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

. The issue here is not damage, it's that you're extremely likely to take 4+ alpha strikes to the CT if you do anything but camp.

Read that a few times over and see what you did wrong there.

[Thrudvangar]

Adiuvo, on 11 October 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

That's your fault for sticking an XL engine in lol.

hahah nice one! should mount a std engine and a medium laser to do a bit dmg?....

[Burktross]

Lordred, on 10 October 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

TTK for lights is woefully quick to be honest, I pilot 20 and 25 toners more often then heavier mechs, and rounding a corner is a death sentence.

As a medium player. I face assaults and heavies without fear... but lights...
They are fear incarnate...

[Adiuvo]

Thrudvangar, on 11 October 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

hahah nice one! should mount a std engine and a medium laser to do a bit dmg?....

Yes.

You're probably oversizing your engine a bit if you're finding it a problem to mount weapons. What are you trying to do with your mech?

[Lordred]

Burktross, on 11 October 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

As a medium player. I face assaults and heavies without fear... but lights...
They are fear incarnate...

I assume you do not mean Locusts or Commandos, but more Firestarters, Raves, Jenners, and Spiders.