17 replies to this topic

[Serpentbane]

Way to often I end up in a match with AFK's and discos, and they steal a lot of time, so I suggest the following.

If a player do not touch keyboard or mouse for say, 2 minutes, the player is kicked from the game. He will how ever be able to re-join.

If the only remaining player(s) is (are) disco that (those) player(s) should show on enemy radar. If a player re-joins, he will disappear from radar again.



Also, ppl shutting down to hide until the game ends is a problem. But this is not as easy to deal with as shutting down is a valid tactic in the game. If a player shut down, but still move the mouse or touch a key, he should not disco for being AFK.

How ever, finding this last player hiding can also be time consuming. I have no great ideas here, but I could see some kind of max shutdown time. If a player is shut down more than, say 3 minutes total during a match, he will be visible on radar as long as he is shut down. If he starts moving, he will not be visible.

This way, ppl can shut down as a tactic, but not to hide until the match ends.

Edited by Serpentbane, 11 October 2014 - 09:34 PM.

[luxebo]

I think yes to enemy on radar as last man standing if NOT moving for 1 min or so. AFK players vs discos... no difference. When people power down it could be something like a strat or etc. I've done entire team shutting down at base on terra and completely destroying the enemy.

[Serpentbane]

luxebo, on 12 October 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

I think yes to enemy on radar as last man standing if NOT moving for 1 min or so. AFK players vs discos... no difference. When people power down it could be something like a strat or etc. I've done entire team shutting down at base on terra and completely destroying the enemy.

Yes, as I wrote shutting down is a valid tactic in the game, but it's also frustrating when a player hides when there's 10 minutes left of the match. One have to ask if this problem is big enough to prevent long term shutdowns as you describe as a tactic. How often do ppl use shutdown as a tactic vs how often du you spend 5-10 minutes looking for the last player hiding.

And this is why I have this vote. The times I suggest is exactly that, suggestions.

I myself is a little torn on this one. But came to the conclusion that I see less use of shutting down as a tactic than people hiding to preserve their K/D ratio, and preventing extended shutdown would have a more positive effect all over.

One could also not have this rule on 12 vs 12 drops where such tactics could be more valid.

Removing K/D from stats could also be an option to prevent hiding.

[TuntematonSika]

here are my opinions

poll #1: Are you mad? by the chance that the guy comes back he will have to wait another 20 seconds if he has to rejoin, wasting valuable time.

poll #2 will save time.

poll #3 this is just stupid. this would break the system altogether and would make no sense implementing.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

The only option that I see to a non Piloted Mech,

- Either have the game remove the Mech after a set time limit.
- Have the Mech indicated as an 'Ejected' Pilot and a 'location transmitter' broadcast the chassis location, for 'recovery op's to locate and pickup. (this would also be indicated on the map screen, so much easer to find if needed.)

Some issues are of concern, just how long will the game 'hold' the Mech ready?
- Waiting for a reconnection to the match to happen.
- Even if the Pilot does 'I'm not playing this map' and disconnects from the game, the server should still know if he's actually still 'online'. This could be a rather 'intrusive method' but would indicate to the game what to do.

Until the game is stable and players do not have disconnect issues, it's difficult to establish if the player was dropped or chose to leave. (posting a verbal message to the effect, "I'm outta here" is actually a violation of the terms of service, so one method of indication.) What rules can PGI establish, that still allow for some time to reconnect, but don't have game breaking issues?
- It's a very tight line that needs to be balanced.

Just some ideas,
9erRed

[xeromynd]

1. No, and I don't know of any game that does this. Sometimes real-life comes a knockin' and there's nothing you can do about it, it takes priority. That 2 minute AFK mech could still make a difference in the match. A fresh TimberWolf coming into the final battle when there's a minute left in the match is supposed to make the enemy sh*t their pants.

2. No, that mech could still reconnect at any time. Its benefits (ending the match faster) are hindered by the fact that it's extremely unfair to players who've crashed or disconnected for any reason, with intent to reconnect.

3. No, as much as I hate being up against someone who's been hiding or powered down, it's a valid tactic. Powering down is a valid tactic, especially in conquest where you may have 1 friendly vs 5 enemies with all bases in your favor. I'd sure as hell find a hidey hole and power down, dunno about you.

[This would make me feel like I was driving the bus from Speed, gotta keep going, can't stop and power down, or else your mech will blow up because reasons.]


Tl;dr: AFK is perfectly acceptable imo, it's something that has to happen sometimes. AFK'ers should never be punished. Disco's are ok as they are imo, teammates usually call out coordinates to the disco mech anyway, which usually seems to work just fine. I think the TOS should make it OK to do this (I think it's against the TOS now)

[Serpentbane]

xeromynd, on 15 October 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

1. No, and I don't know of any game that does this. Sometimes real-life comes a knockin' and there's nothing you can do about it, it takes priority. That 2 minute AFK mech could still make a difference in the match. A fresh TimberWolf coming into the final battle when there's a minute left in the match is supposed to make the enemy sh*t their pants.

2. No, that mech could still reconnect at any time. Its benefits (ending the match faster) are hindered by the fact that it's extremely unfair to players who've crashed or disconnected for any reason, with intent to reconnect.

3. No, as much as I hate being up against someone who's been hiding or powered down, it's a valid tactic. Powering down is a valid tactic, especially in conquest where you may have 1 friendly vs 5 enemies with all bases in your favor. I'd sure as hell find a hidey hole and power down, dunno about you.

[This would make me feel like I was driving the bus from Speed, gotta keep going, can't stop and power down, or else your mech will blow up because reasons.]


Tl;dr: AFK is perfectly acceptable imo, it's something that has to happen sometimes. AFK'ers should never be punished. Disco's are ok as they are imo, teammates usually call out coordinates to the disco mech anyway, which usually seems to work just fine. I think the TOS should make it OK to do this (I think it's against the TOS now)

But in 99% of the matches I've played this is not what's actually happening.

Yes, some times real life comes knocking, but if it takes longer than 2 minutes, you are able to rejoin if you want. It only takes about 20 sec. How ever, most AFKs not entering the game before those 2 minutes, do not enter the game at all. Another solution could be letting AFK players stay ingame until they are last man standing. Then disco the players enabeling rule 2.

Yes, discos could reenter at any time. And if they do, they will turn invisible on radar once again. How ever, by the time discos are last man standing, they have usually been away for a while. I have never ever seen a last man standing disco reconet. Should up to 12 persons use 5 to 10 minutes, thats up to 2 hours total, of their time looking for a mech, just because that last player could reconect, even if this almost never happens in reality?

On the last poll I wrote I was a little torn. But again, looking at what's usually happening in matches. Those who power down usually do this to hide until game ends. I do not count this as an valid tactic that gives value to the gameplay. 3 minutes do also give some time to use this tactic. During those 3 minutes you either win that conquest game, or loose the bases. If you stay shut down more than this, chanses are your team gets hamered because they are one player short in the game.

In 12 vs 12 matches, this rule could be disabeled as those matches usually are more organiced.

So in my opinion, we have to look at what's happening in reality, not what could have happened if this and if that.

[Serpentbane]

On should also see this issue in light of how PGI treats people leaving the match when they die. If they do, they will loose out on all CB/XP from assists they would have gotten if they stayed ingame as spectators to the end.

People have to deside if they should sit tight for several minutes watching people looking for hiding/disconected players, or start a new game, hoping they would earn more by quiting right away dropping in a new match.

If there is no actual gameplay, then help us end the match and move on...

[Kalimaster]

I'm in favor of 9erReds option. I have one, that would work, however I'm keeping it to myself for the time being.

[Serpentbane]

9erRed, on 15 October 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

The only option that I see to a non Piloted Mech,

- Either have the game remove the Mech after a set time limit.
- Have the Mech indicated as an 'Ejected' Pilot and a 'location transmitter' broadcast the chassis location, for 'recovery op's to locate and pickup. (this would also be indicated on the map screen, so much easer to find if needed.)

Just some ideas,
9erRed

Kalimaster, on 28 October 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'm in favor of 9erReds option. I have one, that would work, however I'm keeping it to myself for the time being.

Removing the mech would be harder as PGI would need to make a whole new mechanism in the game for this. Also, reconecting people is an issue if the mech is gone.

None of my make visible on radar rules are valid before these players are last man standing. The disconect AFK players after two minutes are, but they will still be invisible on radar until their mechs are the only ones left.

The ejected pilot tag could be cool, but as I see it, this is still the same as just having the mech standing there. If they used the pilot name space to show ejected pilot, we would not be able to see who the pilot was. I like to remember ppl who disco alot. Again, if ejected pilot should show somewhere, it would be more work as new functions would need to be made.

I'm trying to do this without PGI having to do much changes to the code and GUI, as this would increase the chance of implementation.

[Saiphas Cain]

If you have to move to stay in you're going to see mechs running in corners. Since I started playing Commando's I've noticed mechs just sitting at the enemy deployment zone that spring to life after being shot a few times. Whether this is because they're reconnecting after a crash and I'm fast, or because they're not paying any attention when the match starts is anyone's guess but it happens often enough.

If the concern is people staying shut down too long an easy way to determine abuse is to keep the heat gauge on at all times instead of blanking the HUD completely. I've had times, especially on Tourmaline desert in the 5MLocust ( not the 5M, the 3M with 5 med lasers and nowhere enough heatsinks for such a foolish loadout. ) where I'm waiting upwards of a minute to cool down. The problem is guessing when I'm actually cool to maximize efficiency and not look like I'm AFK. In all seriousness... it's a thermostat. You don't need a fusion reactor to run a thermostat and LCD display.

[Serpentbane]

Saiphas Cain, on 29 October 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

If you have to move to stay in you're going to see mechs running in corners. Since I started playing Commando's I've noticed mechs just sitting at the enemy deployment zone that spring to life after being shot a few times. Whether this is because they're reconnecting after a crash and I'm fast, or because they're not paying any attention when the match starts is anyone's guess but it happens often enough.

If the concern is people staying shut down too long an easy way to determine abuse is to keep the heat gauge on at all times instead of blanking the HUD completely. I've had times, especially on Tourmaline desert in the 5MLocust ( not the 5M, the 3M with 5 med lasers and nowhere enough heatsinks for such a foolish loadout. ) where I'm waiting upwards of a minute to cool down. The problem is guessing when I'm actually cool to maximize efficiency and not look like I'm AFK. In all seriousness... it's a thermostat. You don't need a fusion reactor to run a thermostat and LCD display.

Well, AFK is not the same as shut down. It's not pressing any buttons or moving the mouse for a given time, in my case 2 minutes. If the game does not pick up any input from the player, he is AFK. If you shut down or power down, but move your mouse or press a key during this time, you will not be counted as AFK.

Also, shuting down due to overheat is not the same at powering down. When overheating your mech will automaticly restart when it's safe.

I dont think shutdowns due to overheat should be counted in, although it could be used by some to hide I would doubt this would be such a big issue.

So:
- AFK = not touching the keyboard or mouse for 2 minutes.
- Disconected = system crashed, player quit or AFK for more than 2 continious minutes.
- Disconected mechs visible only when last mechs on team.
- Shutdowns (manualy engaged) vissible after 3 minutes total. Not visible if player powers on again. Not in 12 vs 12 matches.

In the current game, I see no problems with these rules. Hiding for 3 minutes in a game is alot. Chanses are, your team will be dead by the time you start doing anything, because they were one down. Hiding to survive the match time out is not tactics in my eyes.

[Saiphas Cain]

I hear you. I'm not referring to heat shutdown. I'm referring to they're generally just sitting there. I unloaded about 6 salvo's from the Commando before they even started to move and they were in their deployment zone in the most memorable example. I had a match last night where a pair of "friendly" dire whales waited about 3 minutes into the match before either of them moved. Needless to say the initiative was well gone by the time they finished their lasagna and beer and decided to pick the mouse back up.
Your ideas make sense and have merit from a playability standpoint.

[InspectorG]

yes,yes,no

No on the 3 minutes because...sigh...there MAY be a tactical advantage to it, particularly on conquest with a big map.

[Firewuff]

BAP..... that is all

[Davegt27]

I had times where I discoed 6 times in a row

It’s bad enough that I lose any rewards and I feel the disco its self is punishment enough

[Archer Magnus]

How about an auto penalty, sucks having to wait until the end of a game to report someone. It's almost always Assault mechs, why?

[SockSlayer]

Let's see...

"No" to poll 1, as I have had situations I had to walk away and come back, though I would vote yes if that was 4 to 5 minutes instead of 2 minutes.

"Yes" to poll 2, for showing up on radar if last mech is standing, my vote is a yes.

"No" to poll 3 with the exception that if the shutdown mech has no weapons or is last one standing. It is also relatively rare to stay shutdown that long unless they are hiding or fired very high heat weapons.