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We Gotta Help The New Players


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#41 Dock Steward

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 02:00 PM

View PostVinhasa, on 12 October 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

Weekly video tutorial contest - have the top reward be a mech bay AND the mech of your choice. Second place a nominal amount of MC, and third place be a mech bay (or cockpit item).

Then, pimp the videos on the startup screen. An official tutorial channel could categorize them all, etc. If course, this would require work...


10 million Likes....wait, no...I meant 1 million!

View PostFlash Frame, on 12 October 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Tutorial's need a SERIOUS revamp.





I really think player made "tutorials" (as in video walk-thru's) could happen soooo much faster than waiting for the devs to have time. It's really just a matter of players doing it. I think, as was mentioned (BRILLIANTLY), a contest with prizes or rewards would be a great incentive for players to do it.

Edited by Dock Steward, 12 October 2014 - 02:12 PM.


#42 Hospy

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 02:19 PM

The tutorials in game have to be better. If a player can find their way to the forums and get help, then they're already halfway there to knowing what to do.

The poor buggers who don't know the forums exist, those are the players that need help.

The in game tutorial is incredibly not helpful, and with the new player experience as it is (no idea what they're doing, terrible trial mechs, no efficiencies) player retention on people who aren't Battletech/Mechwarrior fans has to be pretty bad.

#43 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 02:20 PM

View PostDock Steward, on 12 October 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:


I really think player made "tutorials" (as in video walk-thru's) could happen soooo much faster than waiting for the devs to have time. It's really just a matter of players doing it. I think, as was mentioned (BRILLIANTLY), a contest with prizes or rewards would be a great incentive for players to do it.


We did this. Hell go look at youtube, there's Tutorial Video's all over the place, HELL EVEN I DID A COUPLE 2 years back! hell I even did a mech customization tutorial!

But, the average, "New" Player, is not going to go out of their way to go to a 3rd party website to sit through a video a 4th party player has created. It's too many steps. And a new player should not be expected to go to an outside source to get information.

Hell it's ALMOST too much to ask people to go to Sarna.net all the time for basic universe information.

It should, all be at your fingertips, it should all be ready to be brought up, in client. Everything should be presented in the easiest, most simple fashion so that new players have a basic of the Universe they are playing in [IE basic Battletech Information] and a full, fleshed out, interactive tutorial system that walks players though gameplay.

Mechwarrior 2 had it, Mechwarrior 4 had it, Mechwarrior 3 relied on the manual, MWO doesn't even have MW3's luxury of having a manual.

So, there MUST be something in place for new players to teach them the ropes. Or retention will be a HUGE issue.

#44 Dock Steward

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 02:25 PM

View PostHospy, on 12 October 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

The tutorials in game have to be better. If a player can find their way to the forums and get help, then they're already halfway there to knowing what to do.

The poor buggers who don't know the forums exist, those are the players that need help.

The in game tutorial is incredibly not helpful, and with the new player experience as it is (no idea what they're doing, terrible trial mechs, no efficiencies) player retention on people who aren't Battletech/Mechwarrior fans has to be pretty bad.


Don't mean to single you out, but again guys, I'm looking for things the player community can do to help the situation. There are many things the devs can do, but we the players have no control over what they do. This thread is to come up with things THE PLAYER COMMUNITY can do to help

View PostFlash Frame, on 12 October 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:


We did this. Hell go look at youtube, there's Tutorial Video's all over the place, HELL EVEN I DID A COUPLE 2 years back! hell I even did a mech customization tutorial!

But, the average, "New" Player, is not going to go out of their way to go to a 3rd party website to sit through a video a 4th party player has created. It's too many steps. And a new player should not be expected to go to an outside source to get information.

Hell it's ALMOST too much to ask people to go to Sarna.net all the time for basic universe information.

It should, all be at your fingertips, it should all be ready to be brought up, in client. Everything should be presented in the easiest, most simple fashion so that new players have a basic of the Universe they are playing in [IE basic Battletech Information] and a full, fleshed out, interactive tutorial system that walks players though gameplay.

Mechwarrior 2 had it, Mechwarrior 4 had it, Mechwarrior 3 relied on the manual, MWO doesn't even have MW3's luxury of having a manual.

So, there MUST be something in place for new players to teach them the ropes. Or retention will be a HUGE issue.


So, can we say that your suggestion is to find a way to get those existing videos more into the face of new players? Like add a link to them in the launcher or something like that?

#45 Hospy

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 02:31 PM

Whoops, I guess I didn't read your message entirely. Sorry.

As to what players can do, about all we can is be instructive to new players in games and offer them help when they ask for it, as well as provide places where they can learn.

Unfortunately, player created tutorials and so forth aren't very helpful if the new players don't know they exist in the game.

#46 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 02:39 PM

View PostDock Steward, on 12 October 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:


Don't mean to single you out, but again guys, I'm looking for things the player community can do to help the situation. There are many things the devs can do, but we the players have no control over what they do. This thread is to come up with things THE PLAYER COMMUNITY can do to help



So, can we say that your suggestion is to find a way to get those existing videos more into the face of new players? Like add a link to them in the launcher or something like that?


Video's are not the answer. That's what I'm trying to say.

Yes, some people learn by watching, other's learn by doing, and more often than not, you're going to get more player retention by having them go through a tutorial, than you will by just showing them video's.

Please, stop trying to go "well the easy way out is~" yes, we know what the easy way out is, we've been on the easy way for 3 years now.

It is clearly not working.

#47 Dock Steward

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 02:44 PM

View PostFlash Frame, on 12 October 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:


Video's are not the answer. That's what I'm trying to say.

Yes, some people learn by watching, other's learn by doing, and more often than not, you're going to get more player retention by having them go through a tutorial, than you will by just showing them video's.

Please, stop trying to go "well the easy way out is~" yes, we know what the easy way out is, we've been on the easy way for 3 years now.

It is clearly not working.


The players in this community taking an active role in helping new players is working, though slowly and only for a few people. I'm trying to come up with ideas that will take the community's role in the matter further. It's fine if you don't have any ideas as to how to do this, or if you don't think the suggested ideas will work or are feasible, but let's be clear about something:

This is the opposite of the "easy way out."

This is a way in which a big chunk of the community is asked to do more than ever before. The harder way, as it were.

Edited by Dock Steward, 12 October 2014 - 02:48 PM.


#48 CMDR Sunset Shimmer

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 03:09 PM

View PostDock Steward, on 12 October 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:


The players in this community taking an active role in helping new players is working, though slowly and only for a few people. I'm trying to come up with ideas that will take the community's role in the matter further. It's fine if you don't have any ideas as to how to do this, or if you don't think the suggested ideas will work or are feasible, but let's be clear about something:

This is the opposite of the "easy way out."

This is a way in which a big chunk of the community is asked to do more than ever before. The harder way, as it were.


The new player experience, has been, pretty much exclusively, in the hands of the community, since just after closed beta.

PGI was even like "Hey guys, create videos for us, K THX!" and then took off to make more mechs, and pretty much never looked back.

If there was to be something put into the game that links to tutorial video's... How do you decide WHO's tutorial video's get linked? Who has better video's, who decides this?

It's yet another layer to the process that shouldn't even be there, and should be taken care of IN GAME WITH AN IN GAME SYSTEM FOR EXPLAINING THESE THINGS.

I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall with you in trying to explain this Dock. It's been this way, for 3 ******* years now. And the NPE is just as bad now, as it was then.

Part of what you're not understanding is how "new player" minds work.

A new player downloads the game, probably after seeing an Ad, or having a friend recommend the game. Now, you would THINK... that since they have to come to the website to download the client, and create an account, they would know about the forums.

But one thing you have to understand, from the position of a devloper, is that your players "ARE DUMB AS ROCKS."
Now I know that seems insulting, and yeah, it kinda is. but the point is, if you're making a game, and you are expecting new players to come in, you have to look at it this way, because that new player that just downloaded your game, and made an account, is not very likely to visit the forums. [which to many of us who have been playing, and who are active here, we take for granted that we come here. to us, it's the "no brainer" thing, Go to the forums, research a topic, ect ect. The "Average" player, WILL NOT DO THIS.]

With MWO, we don't exactly seperate these new players, from the old guard. This is both good, and bad. It's good, because old guard can then see a new player and take them under their wing. [should the new player be willing.] It's bad, because this places the new player in a hardcore live environment from day 1. [which hurts retention.]

So, the solution to the problem of retention is 2 part.

1)Mandatory tutorials that train the player in all the "how to's" of Mechwarrior Online.
2)"Cadet" Que, as long as a player has their cadet matches, and are using trial mechs, they are left in the Cadet Que to play against lower tiered opponents.

now, clearly, part 2 of that may be impossible, as we are not aware of how many new players are coming into the game in a given day. but Part 1 is entirely possible, and something that should have been a core part of the experience from Day1 of release.

"Leave it to the community." can go a long way, and in fact, it already has. But it's also proven to not be as good for retention as having the basic foundation of a solid tutorial system in place.

Because how many people do you think this game looses daily, who downloaded the game, hopped in, got their ass blown to bits, then walked away without even checking the "Community" ? I'd almost guarente those numbers are staggering.

#49 Excalabur50

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 03:42 PM

There is a VERY GOOD REASON why players new and old alike WONT come to the forums there are generally too many trolls!!! lets face it everyone here at some stage has been trolled, flamed, ridiculed etc etc, so for newbies to be expected to come here they just won't bother so there needs to be more info within the game environment itself either linking to tutorials or other forms of information that the new player needs and I have also seen new players myself included trolled and flamed in the in game chat so experienced players need to try and stop from doing this too.
Maybe an easier way to help is if for the first amount of time a new player is in the game he has an Icon or something above his mech that only his teammates can see and then our more advanced players should try and take that newbie under his wing and try and help him out in the game as much as the situation allows as a sort of buddy system I don't know it might? work!

#50 Sergeant Random

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 04:23 PM

This is a good thread.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=n_xG1Yg_QoM

One of the most cost-effective and efficient things that PGI can do is to put tooltips where the new player can see them. Maybe an info tab per in-game item. But they probably are holding out on this for as long as the game is in flux (changing with all the nerfing and QQ).

I wonder if they can afford a wiki team.

#51 Dock Steward

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 06:51 PM

View PostFlash Frame, on 12 October 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:


The new player experience, has been, pretty much exclusively, in the hands of the community, since just after closed beta.

PGI was even like "Hey guys, create videos for us, K THX!" and then took off to make more mechs, and pretty much never looked back.

If there was to be something put into the game that links to tutorial video's... How do you decide WHO's tutorial video's get linked? Who has better video's, who decides this?

It's yet another layer to the process that shouldn't even be there, and should be taken care of IN GAME WITH AN IN GAME SYSTEM FOR EXPLAINING THESE THINGS.

I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall with you in trying to explain this Dock. It's been this way, for 3 ******* years now. And the NPE is just as bad now, as it was then.



So you're saying that right now (when the devs seem to be listening and reaching out to the community in a communicative way to a degree they never have before), is a bad time to bring this all back up again,...?


If players in this community had a project that would help new payers and said they'd do 99% of the work, and the devs just had to market it by creating some links, they'd probably do it.

Edited by Dock Steward, 12 October 2014 - 07:12 PM.


#52 Hoax415

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 08:53 PM

Sad world where this thread is buried underneath awful threads about sync dropping whines, elo whines, horrible balance ideas, clans are OP pls nerf threads, clans are UP pls buff threads and general forum retardation.

People getting mad and saying that PGI needs to do all the work themselves are forgetting how thinly stretched PGI's resources are getting CW out the door.

But there is this guy, who isn't working on CW who is supposed to be our community manager and could be, you know, worrying about those new players and highlighting good strong contributors and creating an environment where players want to stand up and help new people. But instead he's on gag order because he went too far in his ludicrous mission to prevent anything bad from being said about Transverse. Solid plan that was.

I know this game isn't League but there's a reason Riot made sure, long before they were the #1 online game, to produce those community spotlight videos to highlight builds, guides, fan art and all that nonsense.

MWO needs to help players l2p. Players have done all the work already because they are sick of players being so lost in their games. But PGI isn't doing anything to put that player made content somewhere new players might find it unless they do all the work themselves.

Its a shame.

#53 Demi-Precentor Konev

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 09:35 PM

I think it's easy to forget how this game can appear to someone new to Mechwarrior. While not a sim, it has a lot more stuff to do with your controls than your average shooter, more so when you start adding consumables. Everyone is caught up discussing ELO, balance, and more while these new players just trying the game are struggling to remember how to use the free-look in the cockpit. Population stagnation = game stagnation. For the game to survive, the playebase needs to grow and that will be hard to do if there is no help to tackle the learning curve.

Edited by ArtyomBrusilov, 12 October 2014 - 09:36 PM.


#54 Johnny Reb

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 10:40 PM

View PostVinhasa, on 12 October 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

Give all new players 30 days of premium time. It helps them earn money and XP better, and would allow their veteran buddies to takes them to private matches. Don't underestimate the value of getting slowly walked through how the mechanics of the game work.

I spent my first fee weeks getting curb stomped. Fortunately I'm not all that worried about KDR w/l and all that, so I didn't get discouraged. However, I can tell you that being able to goof around with my RL bros in private matches early on would have been HUGELY helpful.

I like that idea of limited premium time for new players. However, I would give them something like 10-12 days, AFTER, they complete the Cadet bonus. That way they played enough to buy a mech and can see the benifit of premium time after.

#55 XtremWarrior

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 12:44 AM

View PostFupDup, on 10 October 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

Think of the childrens, man!


Back to serious business, we probably could use some kind of encyclopedia-esque thing built directly into the game (because they're less likely to use the forums).


I was gonna start a thread about that before i saw this one and you suggestion.
Definitely, we need an in-game encyclopedia. I just saw that in TotalWar: Shogun2 and it does wonder. With key words link from one article (say: Engines) to an other one (Turn-Speed), it would go a long way toward helping the new players to deal with all the hidden mechanisms of this game.
Mostly text and a few pictures if you want to do it without wasting ressources. But then again, what better thing is there to waste Dev's ressource than something telling how to play their damn game..?

So, PLEASE PGI MAKE AN ENCYCLOPEDIA!

Edited by XtremWarrior, 13 October 2014 - 12:45 AM.


#56 Black Ivan

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 12:47 AM

Take out friendly fire at all.

That helps a lot. Have been shot this weekend more then once in the back by a newbie who claimed to did not know that there is friendly fire.





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