99 replies to this topic

[Riverboat Sam]

Good vid here by Sidestrafe that lays it out really well.



While I've received excellent advice and help on this forum, I've also been appalled by the amount of noise and discord. Now someone is suggesting a, "Player Council", to guide the design of the game? That would certainly be the death of MWO.

PGI are the professional game designers. They need to keep their own counsel, do their jobs as best they can and let the chips fall where they may. If they keep taking direction from the loudest complainers on the forum this game is doomed.

[Xarian]

If you paid any sort of attention at all, the council idea was created by Russ - about 2 months ago. It's a dead issue now.

PGI is fully aware that following the direct mandates of a ******* populace is just going to lead to a ******* game. Listening the players is a good thing, but ultimately is best used just to get ideas and test the temperature of the popularity of various features rather than using it as a "You said to do X, so we did X" mentality.

The game has improved significantly since Russ and co. started communicating via the forums. So please, take your naysaying and stick it somewhere uncomfortable.

[Lemming211]

I agree.

Design by committee? That's not what I paid for, and I hope it's just some over-enthusiastic players hoping to get more recognition from PGI on their feedback, and not an idea that PGI is entertaining.

And no, it's not because I wouldn't likely have a voice on said council (because someone is going to mention that). If you've got the credentials to build a game, apply for a job. I don't, I'll leave it to the pros.

[Dracol]

Just going to post a single, counter argument post, to support a player council (or at the very least talking with the player base for feedback):

PGI employees spend their time making the game. Compared to some of the die hard MW:O players, the number of hours PGI employees could spend playing MW:O is minuscule. Those who have the time to really learn the in's and out's of MW:O offer a perspective PGI employees could never hope to achieve.

Then there are the new players joining in the game. PGI devs have been around since the start and could never view the game with the fresh eyes of a new player. These players offer a perspective PGI employees can no longer achieve.

These two groups offer perspectives PGI can benefit from when making design decisions.

[Lemming211]

Xarian, on 13 October 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

If you paid any sort of attention at all, the council idea was created by Russ - about 2 months ago. It's a dead issue now.

PGI is fully aware that following the direct mandates of a ******* populace is just going to lead to a ******* game. Listening the players is a good thing, but ultimately is best used just to get ideas and test the temperature of the popularity of various features rather than using it as a "You said to do X, so we did X" mentality.

The game has improved significantly since Russ and co. started communicating via the forums. So please, take your naysaying and stick it somewhere uncomfortable.

Yes, Russ stated that he wouldn't be moving forward with that idea. But it's still something that was being tossed around.

[UnsafePilot]

The council was never going to have any development control. It was just going to be a group of people who would have combed through the forums to separate the ideas from the nonsense.

[stjobe]

Enlil09, on 13 October 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

PGI are the professional game designers.

Sure, but they could sure as hell learn a thing or two about BattleTech from certain parts of the community.

[Logan Hawke]

Listening to the community, interacting with them, and taking the gems that pop up here and there is very good. At the very least it makes people more willing and understanding when there's a connection to the people behind the game.

Now, that being said, putting the players in charge of anything more important than a bag of coal is a terrible idea, and let's be honest - this community would find a way to ruin that coal
however, I don't recall the player council ever being about making decisions. I thought it was supposed to be a group that filtered through the loads of crap on the forum and simply brought the gems to the devs attention

[Bigbacon]

committee = no
listen to community = yes.

Ideas come up and that can spark ideas in the devs heads but I'd rather them decide as to if that change/addition is good or bad and not the elite comp players that will end up on said committee and decide things for us.

[Lily from animove]

Enlil09, on 13 October 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

Good vid here by Sidestrafe that lays it out really well.



While I've received excellent advice and help on this forum, I've also been appalled by the amount of noise and discord. Now someone is suggesting a, "Player Council", to guide the design of the game? That would certainly be the death of MWO.

PGI are the professional game designers. They need to keep their own counsel, do their jobs as best they can and let the chips fall where they may. If they keep taking direction from the loudest complainers on the forum this game is doomed.

I am sure PGI has the skills to differ between the loud guys and those catering their own needs from the guys bringing real arguments and facts based on objective facts.

that video, WOW, how do his opponents can miss him all the time when he stands still, how could that Nova miss him or ignore him like that. WTB that opps. (well not really - seems to be a bad elo matchup)

[KraftySOT]

Enlil09, on 13 October 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

Good vid here by Sidestrafe that lays it out really well.



While I've received excellent advice and help on this forum, I've also been appalled by the amount of noise and discord. Now someone is suggesting a, "Player Council", to guide the design of the game? That would certainly be the death of MWO.

PGI are the professional game designers. They need to keep their own counsel, do their jobs as best they can and let the chips fall where they may. If they keep taking direction from the loudest complainers on the forum this game is doomed.

Completely disagree. I watched Battleground Europe go down the tubes following your advise, and them being FORCED at threat of losing their livelihoods, to adopt the policies of community interaction, that PGI are now following.

So.

No...dude...you have no idea what youre talking about. Listening to your customers is how you stay in business. Unless youre the Soup {Godwin's Law}...doing whatever you want, and then telling people to suck it if they dont like it...is why John Romero is a broke penniless hack and Daikatana was a pile of trash.

Listen to your customers.

Edited by KraftySOT, 13 October 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

I was gonna make some kind of post, but every word came out as 'OP wasn't paying attention during recent events.'

There are a couple reasons why PGI is suddenly talking to the forumwarriors, as well as why many of us retired former legendary warriors are now posting again.

Edit: against my better judgement, I decided to listen to the video. He foolishly decided to bring up cockpit glass.

Here's what 'cockpit glass' looks like in other games. It's cool and not intrusive. I dare say it adds a lot to the overall feel of the game. One might go so far as to say that it adds immersion.









MWO's original cockpit glass was a green filter applied on top of brown filters and film grain. To people like me, who have very poor vision, the game we'd played for over two years (one of VERY FEW I can actually play to begin with, due to how poor my vision is) was suddenly unplayable. I didn't play it for over a month, until some guy discovered a cfg command that turned it and the rest of the cockpit off.

Dead serious.

People complained not because it was different, but because it dramatically lowered the game's quality.

We were expecting mechwarrior 3-styled cockpit glass damage and effects, not another filter. In the end, PGI had to rework the glass effect, and now you actually get a proper toggle, althought it's another cfg command.

A good implementation would have been more like metroid prime, rather than a fine film of absinthe layered in front of my vision.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 13 October 2014 - 07:53 AM.

[KraftySOT]

stjobe, on 13 October 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Sure, but they could sure as hell learn a thing or two about BattleTech from certain parts of the community.

And game design.

They may be professional, but theres alot of different "levels" of professional.

I mean frankly theres no way in hell they can write their own engine. They could in theory hire people to do that...but the integration and know how and experience just isnt there.

Were not talking about iD here...who isnt even AAA anymore after Rage was such a bomb.

PGI are INDY developers...especially not that PGI doesnt have a publisher. Thats the definition of Indy. Theres no difference between PGI, and my band, at this point.

Edited by KraftySOT, 13 October 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[UnsafePilot]

KraftySOT, on 13 October 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

. Theres no difference between PGI, and my band, at this point.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that there's a slight income disparity between the two.

[KraftySOT]

And being independent is rad im not saying thats a bad thing. Its a great thing. But lets not confuse DICE, or Gearbox, with PGI.

[Roland]

I love the folks who say imbecilic things like, "A player council can never work!" while seemingly oblivious to the fact that it currently DOES work in various other successful games.

[KraftySOT]

UnsafePilot, on 13 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that there's a slight income disparity between the two.

Per capita? Theres only 4 of us. We certainly do alright. But my point was about being independent. Were on VICE records but thats simply distro, at our behest, we produce our own records, have complete artistic control etc. Certainly we listen to our fans. Thats my point.

And I do well enough to have nothing to do at 11:49pm on a Monday...or any day...ever. Then again...im always broke *shrug*

Roland, on 13 October 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

I love the folks who say imbecilic things like, "A player council can never work!" while seemingly oblivious to the fact that it currently DOES work in various other successful games.

Exactly.

Were not a one off here. Theres been games before.

Edited by KraftySOT, 13 October 2014 - 07:53 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

The council is not the devil... really weird how it can be seen as a negative thing imo.

If they do what they are supposed to do, they will filter out the worst BS from the boards, summarize and present the feedback from the forum warriors and present it to PGI in a digestible form. Russ let us suggest people that we respect and trust to do the job, give them a chance to do just that....

[KraftySOT]

Vassago Rain, on 13 October 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

I was gonna make some kind of post, but every word came out as 'OP wasn't paying attention during recent events.'

There are a couple reasons why PGI is suddenly talking to the forumwarriors, as well as why many of us retired former legendary warriors are now posting again.

Edit: against my better judgement, I decided to listen to the video. He foolishly decided to bring up cockpit glass.

Here's what 'cockpit glass' looks like in other games. It's cool and not intrusive. I dare say it adds a lot to the overall feel of the game. One might go so far as to say that it adds immersion.









MWO's original cockpit glass was a green filter applied on top of brown filters and film grain. To people like me, who have very poor vision, the game we'd played for over two years (one of VERY FEW I can actually play to begin with, due to how poor my vision is) was suddenly unplayable. I didn't play it for over a month, until some guy discovered a cfg command that turned it and the rest of the cockpit off.

Dead serious.

People complained not because it was different, but because it dramatically lowered the game's quality.

We were expecting mechwarrior 3-styled cockpit glass damage and effects, not another filter. In the end, PGI had to rework the glass effect, and now you actually get a proper toggle, althought it's another cfg command.

A good implementation would have been more like metroid prime, rather than a fine film of absinthe layered in front of my vision.

This so much.

Robots.

[PappySmurf]

The video the OP has played has some good points and is so wrong in other comments.First I don't play Conquest that much because I cant pick my mech after I know the map and game mode plain and simple auto selecting my game modes was not a good idea unless you could pick your mech after knowing the game mode and map then it would have worked just fine.

But PGI is not that bright in there game mode designs so here i am JOE PLAYER in a assault mech and get dumped in Conquest which unless it turns in to a big fur ball fight at theta im in a totally useless mech.As for the cockpit glass I think PGI should have left it in the game but made it a checkable option in the game options or the graphic options.

So many things in MWO could be fixed with just simple ideas and testing but it always ends up a mess because PGI does not think it through and look at all the good ideas from topics and posts players make and test them with viable options until there palatable by the community.

Edited by PappySmurf, 13 October 2014 - 08:01 AM.