11 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

Before I get started, this is not your usual LRM rant. I'm fine with LRMs. They are a very touchy weapon system and face an uphill battle against Radar Deprivation, ECM and AMS.

The problem I have with this is this: If a light gets narced and there are any number of LRM boats on the battlefield, they are in serious trouble. The slower the light, the faster they will die.

I have had this happen a few times now, and seen it a dozen or so times. It's not so much that LRMs shred the light's armor instantly, so much as they all target the legs. I mean 50%+ of missiles that hit, hit the legs.

In my Kitfox, I got narced and went from full armor to death in 20 seconds. I was near cover, ran for cover, then immediately started getting hit by the shower. In most mechs, I could get to cover before dying. Not the kitfox. I lost my first leg in the first shower, the second only a few seconds later. I died with both arms and most of my top armor still there.

To fix this:

1) Move the center mass target up for LRMs up for lights. It's too low, and it takes legs off at an unfair speed.

I consider this a very important fix, as lights are being used less and less in this game. They can't compete when they lose their legs too quickly. Fast lights can survive a little longer due to the lag delay, but the kitfox, a light that needs all the help it can get, is doomed.

Edited by Greenjulius, 12 October 2014 - 02:18 PM.

[Chagatay]

Light mechs and LRMs are fine. Keep in mind that as a smaller mech it is easier to get to cover. More buildings and terrain cover are possible. Speed and ECM is also with most of them.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Most of the leg hits happen because of missiles trying to keep up while tracking in. Dunno if they can change the point of impact without increasing the speed of the missiles. And lights do not have a whole lot of armor period.

One advantage of a kitfox is that it can carry 3 AMS. And while the ammo lasts you will eat pretty much all incoming missiles. Even though that is a bunch of tonnage to give up for it.

[Greenjulius]

Chagatay, on 12 October 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

Light mechs and LRMs are fine. Keep in mind that as a smaller mech it is easier to get to cover. More buildings and terrain cover are possible. Speed and ECM is also with most of them.

That would be correct if all maps had extensive cover. Try caustic or alpine. The only cover is behind hills, which usually aren't tall enough to block LRMs. Kitfox has no speed, so that's not an answer either. I had ECM, but got Narced.

There really is nothing that could have been done. Point of impact needs adjusted on Kitfoxes, as LRMs unfairly target their legs.

This weekend it's especially bad since the challenge rewarded players for Narcs before the revision.

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 12 October 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

Most of the leg hits happen because of missiles trying to keep up while tracking in. Dunno if they can change the point of impact without increasing the speed of the missiles. And lights do not have a whole lot of armor period.

One advantage of a kitfox is that it can carry 3 AMS. And while the ammo lasts you will eat pretty much all incoming missiles. Even though that is a bunch of tonnage to give up for it.

The 3x AMS indeed is a hard burden for any Kitfox to carry. It was perfectly fine before the clan energy nerf, but now it runs too hot and needs more DHS.

An answer to this is buffs to the kitfox. Perhaps energy weapons generate less heat? That way we can carry less DHS and more equipment like AMS.

[Chagatay]

Alpine has tons of cover even caustic has small pockets of resistance. Keep in mind I play lots of kitfox. The biggest thing to watch for is UAVs (especially on caustic)...just shoot them down quick.

[Greenjulius]

Chagatay, on 12 October 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

Alpine has tons of cover even caustic has small pockets of resistance. Keep in mind I play lots of kitfox. The biggest thing to watch for is UAVs (especially on caustic)...just shoot them down quick.

Believe me, I shoot down more UAVs than anyone. If I had a nickel for every UAV I've shot down, I'd have a lot of nickels. The problem is narcs. The KFX has no ability to run if it's trying to protect the team.

I don't think anyone could make an argument that buffs for the KFX are a bad idea. It's fragile, loses arms faster than any other mech, (The arms being it's only real hardpoints) and is too slow to defend itself.

Edited by Greenjulius, 12 October 2014 - 02:43 PM.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

It can be a strong enough mech. Maybe not an energy quirk. But possibly an AMS quirk. Double allotment per ton would possibly work..

[Greenjulius]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 12 October 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

It can be a strong enough mech. Maybe not an energy quirk. But possibly an AMS quirk. Double allotment per ton would possibly work..

I would be completely fine with that. That... actually would encourage teamwork too. Any way we can get an AMS quirk for the kitfox? I really like this idea.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Greenjulius, on 12 October 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Before I get started, this is not your usual LRM rant. I'm fine with LRMs.

Greenjulius, on 12 October 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

That would be correct if all maps had extensive cover. Try caustic or alpine. The only cover is behind hills, which usually aren't tall enough to block LRMs. Kitfox has no speed, so that's not an answer either. I had ECM, but got Narced.

And yet it seems so much like the usual LRM rant.

Yes, there are two maps you have to be extra careful on with NARC and LRMs.

On the rest unless you are a complete tard, you can find cover and relax while the NARC wears off and the LRM boats waste their ammo.

Oh and of course, as bad as LRMs are...no one ever has AMS.

[Variant1]

no no no, if a light gets hit by an lrm they should die instantly. Lights are completely fine right now they can take alot of punishment from lrms, or you know they can easily get into cover unlike the other classes.

Sooo lights are fine, no changes needed just make sure you can run to cover next time instead of going out in the open.

[Glythe]

Greenjulius, on 12 October 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Before I get started, this is not your usual LRM rant. I'm fine with LRMs. They are a very touchy weapon system and face an uphill battle against Radar Deprivation, ECM and AMS.

The problem I have with this is this: If a light gets narced and there are any number of LRM boats on the battlefield, they are in serious trouble. The slower the light, the faster they will die.

And what about big lumbering assaults that don't have ECM? Lights still benefit from lagshield against lasers and they need at least one weapon that can reliably hit them.

LRMs have been nerfed down to the point where they are pathetic. In the past 2 LRM 15s with artemis and tag would kill an assault very quickly. Now the missiles miss way too often (especially on lights.... you forgot to mention that point). ECM can render them nearly completely useless. And then there is the module which can also lead them to be almost completely useless. They also had their damage nerfed way down from where it used to be (both the damage per missile and the explosive profile reduction).

What you are not realizing is that you got focus fired upon by most of the enemy team. Guess what happens to pretty much anyone when that happens? They die.

You really have no idea how easy you have it at this point in the game with LRMs. There was a time they fell almost straight down. There were no modules to protect you and losing the missile lock during that era did not cause the missile to miss. That was a time when they were OP but those times are long gone.

LTP

Edited by Glythe, 12 October 2014 - 08:26 PM.

[Lynx7725]

Greenjulius, on 12 October 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

The problem I have with this is this: If a light gets narced and there are any number of LRM boats on the battlefield, they are in serious trouble. The slower the light, the faster they will die.

You're dealing with a quasi-alert opponent team then. You got crapped upon by "any number of LRM boats" who were alert enough to pick on a good target.. essentially you got focused fired.

Do note that Kit Fox already have some additional quirks on the legs. As a LRM user, if your suggestion is implemented, I won't mind. Considering that legs have the same potential armour and internal structure as side torsos (IIRC), having my missiles impact your torso and killing you instead of me maiming you and having to follow up with yet more missiles to actually finish you off.. actually makes me more efficient. Eh thanks?

Greenjulius, on 12 October 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

The KFX has no ability to run if it's trying to protect the team.

Herein lies the rub. You can only protect the team if you stay alive. So staying alive -- i.e. running when the odds are against you, even if it means temporarily leaving the team is fine; just make sure you come back after the NARC storm wears off.

There's really nothing wrong about taking cover for self-preservation when overwhelming firepower is directed your way, so long you come back after that to continue helping the team.