33 replies to this topic

[reaverOfCheesecake]

I wanted to start this thread to query people on what they think about machine guns in their current state.

I run an arrow with 6 x machine guns and several ravens with either duel or quad machine guns.

I find that even when i sustain fire on a target, it does very little damage. even on unarmored components, which is where a machine gun should shine.

Now the damage was reduced from 0.4 (i think as i can't remember exactly) to around 0.1 per hit due to better hit detection (apparently) in a patch not too long ago and i have noticed that my machine gun mechs don't seem to be as destructive as they used to be (probably deliberately for balancing reasons so i'm not going to quibble it)

I personally would like to see a module that increases machine gun fire rate (maybe by an extra 45% or something) rather than buff any stats, but i want to see whether my point of view is shared by others or should i simply concentrate on my gaming style.

What does everyone think?

[Wraith 1]

Machine guns certainly have less bite after their 'fix'. I can't speak for 4-6 MG builds, but I personally refuse to run anything smaller than a UAC-5 on my Raven nowadays. Speaking of which, AC/2s could use some work too.

MGs seemed pretty good when they were at 1 DPS. They didn't seem too powerful for their tonnage, but they could still rip internals apart when given the chance. A module would be better than nothing though.

[Troutmonkey]

I think they need a small buff to damage. The problem with MGs is trying to make them useful in 1 or 2 without them being OP in groups of 4-6.

I run a Cicada 3C and they make a decent side weapon for my ER-PPC, but can't justify running them on any mech that can't take at least 4. 6 on a Jaeger DD is pure novelty right now though.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 13 October 2014 - 05:28 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Its mostly because MG's don't tie into host state rewind very well, they use hitscan which is a little bit broken atm.

Lasers/Flamers/Mg's are all hitscan weapons, and you have to lead your target to get hits.

If you're aiming at fast targets, ballistics (besides MG's) and srm's are still your reliable choice.

If you can catch a slower mech though, or sombody sitting perfectly still, Mg's will rip them up fast.

Edited by Mister D, 13 October 2014 - 05:19 AM.

[WonderSparks]

Honest opinion about MG's?
Frankly, in groups I love them. Anything less than three or four, I consider unworthy of the Sparks' Build Philosophy.
Get me in my 6 MG JM6-DD and I start spraying bullets everywhere*.

_{*Not entirely false, I have a hard time keeping track of those fast little 'Mechs!}

[Summon3r]

they def dont need a dmg buff maybe some hit detection fix

[Revis Volek]

I do not think a single thing is wrong with them...they do enough Damage. They Shred things with no armor and they have no heat. Anything i have with MG's does so well that once they fix Hit Scan issues im sure there will be threads here saying MG's are OP!!! TAKE OUT MG'S Lol!

Like Myself and Mister D have stated Hit Scan on the other hand is kinda bad right now....

[Lanceafer]

I would say they are good in terms of damage. A slight buff to rate of fire could be a nice module but not more than say 10% I would say. Think about it this way, if you had a 45% buff and have six MGs you now have the damage output of 8.7 MGs. You basically just added two and a half more weapons for 0 heat and no extra tonnage.

The thing to keep in mind (and I know this is a whole separate conversation) in cannon MGs are really for anti infantry. They could not really even penetrate mech armor. The damage they did was to the joints and areas that have already been damaged. In that way I think they work well. If you are going to try to rip into a mech with one good luck. Once you are though....then I love the little buggers.

[reaverOfCheesecake]

Troutmonkey, on 13 October 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

I think they need a small buff to damage. The problem with MGs is trying to make them useful in 1 or 2 without them being OP in groups of 4-6.

I run a Cicada 3C and they make a decent side weapon for my ER-PPC, but can't justify running them on any mech that can't take at least 4. 6 on a Jaeger DD is pure novelty right now though.

agreed, this is why i thought a module would be a nice solution because it forces the build to be used as a MG mech but leaves the generic builds in a balanced condition.

[reaverOfCheesecake]

DarthRevis, on 13 October 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

I do not think a single thing is wrong with them...they do enough Damage. They Shred things with no armor and they have no heat. Anything i have with MG's does so well that once they fix Hit Scan issues im sure there will be threads here saying MG's are OP!!! TAKE OUT MG'S Lol!

Like Myself and Mister D have stated Hit Scan on the other hand is kinda bad right now....

LOL... you are right and i guess i should be careful about what i wish for... balancing is a tedious thing i know... I'll meet you half way and suggest 22.5% increase in ROF for the module . i think that the hit scan thingy might be the majority of the problem like you and others have suggested, I just feel like the way to win is through alpha striking atm which MG cannot do hence my ROF suggestion rather than going for a stat buff. this will help negate the fact that a lot of the rounds miss and also make ammunition something to be considered about more carefully during the build.

Edited by reaverOfCheesecake, 13 October 2014 - 10:57 AM.

[Grendel408]

My opinion on MGuns? They need newer models done... like looking at the U/AC5 on a Blackjack Arrow with MGs equipped as well is the same diameter of barrel... I think the MGuns for MWO should look like a mini-gun/rotary-gun. They just look too out of proportion from other ballistic weapons. Otherwise, they're good... I like how Clan MGs sound vs IS MGs... but that's just me, those sound like large caliber rounds being fired... IS, not so much.

[reaverOfCheesecake]

Grendel408, on 13 October 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

My opinion on MGuns? They need newer models done... like looking at the U/AC5 on a Blackjack Arrow with MGs equipped as well is the same diameter of barrel... I think the MGuns for MWO should look like a mini-gun/rotary-gun. They just look too out of proportion from other ballistic weapons. Otherwise, they're good... I like how Clan MGs sound vs IS MGs... but that's just me, those sound like large caliber rounds being fired... IS, not so much.

I hear ya and thought the same thing with regards to the sounds. I personally do not mind the straight barrel design. I know that the machine guns are supposed to be anti personnel in lore, but the models feel larger, like they run larger caliber AA rounds (hense adding some logic as to why they can deal minor damage to mech armor). A rotary chain of barrels would indicate smaller caliber rounds but much higher ROF, like those on the sides of modern day navy ships to take down incoming missiles.

I will not argue with you on the coolness factor though of a rotery machine gun, and i would certainly not be upset if PGI decided to implement a design like that .

[That Dawg]

Troutmonkey, on 13 October 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

I think they need a small buff to damage. The problem with MGs is trying to make them useful in 1 or 2 without them being OP in groups of 4-6.

They "Fixed" boating lasers..............how?

I'm sorry, but having used machineguns, they DO generate heat. Barrel melting heat. Jamming heat.

1MG, m'eh, 2 MG's..whoo, ok....4MG's, you can't hold them down for more than 5 seconds before one or more jam, melt etc.
you get 6 MG's and..........see where I'm going?

MG's are worthless, the space is much better used for....well, anything else.

Currently those 4 MG builds, novas, spiders jagers etc, aren't doing the damage FOUR machine guns could do!!

If we're to believe 5 watt small lasers can leg a mech, dear god, four MG's spewing AP rounds would certainly do more damage to joints, seams, control surfaces, ECM modules, AMS, gauss, lrm fascia (you can't damage tubes on any launcher I'm aware of and NOT slow down rate of fire, OR obiturate the projectile to the point it blows up on launch!

love the game, but it makes an armorer like me crazy if I start paying attention, LOL

[DEMAX51]

That Dawg, on 14 October 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

They "Fixed" boating lasers..............how?

I'm sorry, but having used machineguns, they DO generate heat. Barrel melting heat. Jamming heat.

1MG, m'eh, 2 MG's..whoo, ok....4MG's, you can't hold them down for more than 5 seconds before one or more jam, melt etc.
you get 6 MG's and..........see where I'm going?

MG's are worthless, the space is much better used for....well, anything else.

Currently those 4 MG builds, novas, spiders jagers etc, aren't doing the damage FOUR machine guns could do!!

If we're to believe 5 watt small lasers can leg a mech, dear god, four MG's spewing AP rounds would certainly do more damage to joints, seams, control surfaces, ECM modules, AMS, gauss, lrm fascia (you can't damage tubes on any launcher I'm aware of and NOT slow down rate of fire, OR obiturate the projectile to the point it blows up on launch!

love the game, but it makes an armorer like me crazy if I start paying attention, LOL

MGs absolutely do not jam or cause any kind of heat whatsoever.

[Stingray Productions]

I think the machine guns fly through the air too slow. In mechwarrior 2 it was almost instantaneous when shot at and hit the target. If you are firing and start turning the torso real fast, the machine bullets look silly.

[DEMAX51]

Stingray1234, on 14 October 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

I think the machine guns fly through the air too slow. In mechwarrior 2 it was almost instantaneous when shot at and hit the target. If you are firing and start turning the torso real fast, the machine bullets look silly.

Machine Gun rounds in MWO don't actually have any travel time at all. They're hitscan - just like lasers - and they hit exactly where your reticle is aiming (using a small cone-of-fire effect) with no need to lead. Don't pay any attention to the animation of the bullets, just keep your crosshairs on the enemy and it'll hit 'em.

[That Dawg]

DEMAX51, on 14 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

MGs absolutely do not jam or cause any kind of heat whatsoever.

Did you read my post, or spot that and click reply?
Did you actually read the thread in its entirety, or just spot that and click reply?
I'm guessing.........no

[DEMAX51]

That Dawg, on 14 October 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

Did you read my post, or spot that and click reply?
Did you actually read the thread in its entirety, or just spot that and click reply?
I'm guessing.........no

I see what looks like you discussing a blend of real life and Mechwarrior mechanics in a confusing way that does not add much to the discussion about how MGs actually function in the game. Did I miss something?

[Stingray Productions]

DEMAX51, on 14 October 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Machine Gun rounds in MWO don't actually have any travel time at all. They're hitscan - just like lasers - and they hit exactly where your reticle is aiming (using a small cone-of-fire effect) with no need to lead. Don't pay any attention to the animation of the bullets, just keep your crosshairs on the enemy and it'll hit 'em.

the animation of the bullets still bother me, i wish they would fly faster.

[Cyberiad]

I wish machine guns weren't hitscan. The dissonance between what you see and what the game processes is really annoying.