9 replies to this topic

[5LeafClover]

The variety of mechs used in game is a problem now, and one I expect to get much worse with CW. Take a look down the mech list in Smurfy and it's easy to find mechs on the brink of extinction, somehow forgotten. Broadly speaking, there are 3 measures of variety:

1. Inter class (e.g Medium vs heavy)
2. Intra class (e.g cicada vs shadowhawk)
3. Intra chassis (e.g. spider 5V vs 5D, less serious but still dullens the game)

The reason that CW will narrow variety further is that there will be peer pressure. The stakes for winning games will be higher, so team mates are likely not going to tolerate mechs that deviate far from meta. I know a quirk pass is coming, and maybe this will help a little, but mech performance is often baked in deep in terms of hard point positions, hitbox sizes and not forgetting tonnage. Other incentives are needed.

There's been a fair few discussions lately about the trade offs between class percentages vs match making speed, and also class restictions vs matched tonnage vs battle value. But I have a couple of thoughts on how to mix things up without fiddling the current balance or queue restrictions.

1. Queue proportion bonus - Tackling inter-class variation, we currently have data for what proportion of the queue is dropping in which class. When the spread is too severe, I propose a bonus (or penalty) for the under (or over) subscribed classes. Bonus could either be straight cBills, token MC, or gameplay adjustment. Along the lines:
Queue proportion <15%, then have:
+5% cbills
OR 2MC
OR +5% to top speed, radar range, rate of fire

Small, symbolic tokens like these may be enough to level the percentages a good deal

2. War weariness - Give each mech a 1 hour cool down period. If the player opts to use the mech again in that hour, apply a gameplay adjustment along the lines -5% top speed, radar range & rate of fire. This could work especially well in CW and add an extra layer of immersion. It will soften the impact of the all-meta team, by encouraging people to spend a game or two away from their DWF-PRIME

3. People's Militia - At campaign level in CW, have a bonus that reflects how much a factions populace is behind the war effort. Not yet having CW, it's hard to say what the bonus should be, but it would be triggered by tracking the number of different chassis used each game or over the course of a day. From an immersion point of view, high variety suggests more rag tag support, rather than optimised state armies.

Edited by 5LeafClover, 14 October 2014 - 04:42 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Plz no.

Some mechs are worthless, and no one in their right mind is gonna run them. Improve the mechs instead.

[UnsafePilot]

The IS quirk pass should help fix that.

[Bront]

Balance the mechs, don't make folks get bonuses for taking worse mechs.

That said, the spider 5V is possibly beyond hope.

[Mercules]

5LeafClover, on 14 October 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

2. War weariness - Give each mech a 1 hour cool down period. If the player opts to use the mech again in that hour, apply a gameplay adjustment along the lines -5% top speed, radar range & rate of fire. This could work especially well in CW and add an extra layer of immersion. It will soften the impact of the all-meta team, by encouraging people to spend a game or two away from their DWF-PRIME

This obviously won't work. People will simply buy multiples of mechs they typically play and rotate them out. If you lock them out of a Chassis then they will build multiples of similar mechs. Interesting you should chose the DWF-Prime when someone could simply buy 3 different Direwolves and outfit them all nearly the same by adding on Prime omni-pods.

You want to not punish my teammates by me bringing a Locust/Commando/Dragon/Trebuchet/(insert lower tier mech)? BV will do that.

[Lily from animove]

Vassago Rain, on 14 October 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

Plz no.

Some mechs are worthless, and no one in their right mind is gonna run them. Improve the mechs instead.

This, the mechs need to be appealing they need a role the other mechs who are generally superior can not do. While surely form a competitive point of view this is valid to take the better mechs, it is questioning the balance and existence of those mechs. And diversity is crated by everything being usable to an at least nearly competitve degree. Fix those mechs and diversity comes back.

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 October 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[Metus regem]

And how would you deal with clan mechs that some of them would be just over a year old in the current time line? The lore for the clan mechs is that the can be quickly repaired, rearmedrearmed and pressed back into service with their plug-and-play omni-pod equipment.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I think we should keep in mind that CW will be a competitive environment and that being the case, yes we are going to see each and everyone's most competitive builds and just deal with it.

Also the tonnage restrictions will actually go a long way to adding diversity. For example, you won't be able to actually bring two Dire Wolf mechs because you have to select 2 more mechs with only 40 tons left to chose from. Since there are no 20 ton clan mechs, you can't do it. Take two Timber Wolf mechs and you only have 90 tons left which means you only have some very limited combos left over such as a 55 toner and a 30 tonner, or a 50 and a 40 tonner or something along those lines.

The point is that while everyone will be running their best builds, the tonnage limits are going to produce quite a bit of diversity just because everyone is going to have to make hard choices in order to fit in a minimum of 4 mechs into 240 tons.

Personally I am planning on running 2 Hellbringers and 2 Stormcrows or perhaps 1 Timberwolf, 1 Hellbringer, 1 Stormcrow and 1 Kit fox. Either way, I my mechs I will be running will be generally leaning toward the mid to lower weight ranges so this gives you an idea just how much diversity we will be seeing.

[Macksheen]

The quirks should help. I wouldn't mind a CB bonus quirk either on some.

Cooldown on mechs would be super annoying. Forced module swap? Forced to not actually try and play/level something throughout a session? Yeah, screw that.

Some mechs are going to be worse than others. This is true of really just about any game - the following isn't directly related but if you consider it with an open mind it can help explain the complexities. http://archive.wizar...tgcom/daily/mr5

The CW meta may be very well different than the solo, group and tournament metas. Likely even.

[Lily from animove]

Viktor Drake, on 14 October 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

I think we should keep in mind that CW will be a competitive environment and that being the case, yes we are going to see each and everyone's most competitive builds and just deal with it.

Also the tonnage restrictions will actually go a long way to adding diversity. For example, you won't be able to actually bring two Dire Wolf mechs because you have to select 2 more mechs with only 40 tons left to chose from. Since there are no 20 ton clan mechs, you can't do it. Take two Timber Wolf mechs and you only have 90 tons left which means you only have some very limited combos left over such as a 55 toner and a 30 tonner, or a 50 and a 40 tonner or something along those lines.

The point is that while everyone will be running their best builds, the tonnage limits are going to produce quite a bit of diversity just because everyone is going to have to make hard choices in order to fit in a minimum of 4 mechs into 240 tons.

Personally I am planning on running 2 Hellbringers and 2 Stormcrows or perhaps 1 Timberwolf, 1 Hellbringer, 1 Stormcrow and 1 Kit fox. Either way, I my mechs I will be running will be generally leaning toward the mid to lower weight ranges so this gives you an idea just how much diversity we will be seeing.

no problem
TW
TW
SC
KFX/Mist lynx.

So I have a very well supporting ECM mech and 3/4 mechs are the best (probably OP) mechs of their classes.