15 replies to this topic

[ImperialKnight]

Change your loadout to short range, low heat, high DPS weapons. SRMs, ACs, regular medium lasers.

The next time you see a LRM heavy team. Tell your team to charge and do not stop until you punch their collective faces in.

If everyone starts doing this, you will realise how pitiful LRM boats are at short range combat

The correct counter to LRMs is not LRMs nor hiding behind cover nor running away nor hoping to out-trade damage at long range. It's to get up to their grills where they can't do anything.

You will ALWAYS lose if you sit back and trade shots with LRM heavy enemies, particularly if you do not have long range, high alpha, pinpoint damage builds. *cough 90 point DWF*

P.S. Staring straight at the missiles while standing still in the open doesn't help your team either.

[DevDeathRay]

LRM paralysis is a real problem in PUGs. When a pilot's mech is getting punished by any weapon, the first reaction is to run and hide. This doesn't work in MWO, and it's especially ineffective when facing a team with superior LRM support. Every LRM boat a team has is one fewer short-range brawler. Find an approach with cover, and go at them. +1

[InspectorG]

I have to agree, even though the pushing team will take some heavy damage on the way in.
Hopefully in Puglandia, the LRM team may not counter-push.

Another thing to do is advance using cover...when its available. Caustic and Alpine...thems tha breaks.

Lights can literally run right under the arc of an incoming volley, this can be used to bait LRM boats into wasting ammo if fire is coming from mainly 1 direction. Crossfire, forget about it.

Lights need to harass the boats.
Mediums need to kill spotters.

Once the boats are forced to get their own spots, they usually hide and quiet down.

BUT, remember, this is Puglandia. Herding cats is hard...

[Kjudoon]

I am an LRM pilot and I approve these messages.

[Dagon Zur]

shoot enemy UAVs

[LordMelvin]

The problem with charging LRM boats is that the rest of your team may not share your willful disregard for personal safety and will be content to sit and watch you die.

[STEF_]

These thread and posts have good points explaining why lrm can work well in puglandia and why it doesn't work in group Q.

And Ecm-U U U Umbrella a a a.

[Gauvan]

Other things that might be helpful:

If you PUG, always bring AMS on a heavies and assaults and possibly larger mediums. I think people don't take AMS because of the attitude that one AMS on your mech won't save you. In a no-respawn, team-based deathmatch you always need to consider the group. A blob of mechs with AMS will stop moderate LRM barrages cold. Tilde (~) turns AMS on and off, know when to do so to save ammo.

The radar deprivation module is very helpful for managing LRM fire. It drops an opponent's lock when line-of-sight is lost. The faster your mech, the more powerful this module is.

Understand ECM, both as a provider and a beneficiary.

Look for spotters, look for UAVs.

[DevDeathRay]

Directing PUGs really is like herding cats. However, I think part of the reason for that is due to lack of in-game coordination functionality. For example, I suggested an improvement to the way the commander role works here that would help mitigate LRM paralysis. Part of my suggestion gives the commander the ability to see, at a high level, the short range and long range capabilities of his team. If he knows the team is primarily short ranged, he can suggest movements and strategies to compensate at the start of the match instead of during an LRM barrage. This greatly increases the odds that the team will be prepared to act appropriately if they are outmatched at range.

[mad kat]

LordMelvin, on 15 October 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

The problem with charging LRM boats is that the rest of your team may not share your willful disregard for personal safety and will be content to sit and watch you die.

And that's the Pug menality summed up on one sentence.

So you have an excellent SRM/LB-10X, machinegun and pulse laser build do you? Superb you can tear off armour inside 270m? Excellent. We're still going to sit here in our Atlas's and Direfails watching you charge the enemy line on our mini map because their's no chance wey're sticking our 100 tons of guns, armour and reactor round the corner of that hill to help you with a barrage of cover fire and even if we did we'd only end up shooting you in the back accidentally on purpose anyway.

[TVMA Doc]

DevDeathRay, on 14 October 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

LRM paralysis is a real problem in PUGs. When a pilot's mech is getting punished by any weapon, the first reaction is to run and hide. This doesn't work in MWO, and it's especially ineffective when facing a team with superior LRM support. Every LRM boat a team has is one fewer short-range brawler. Find an approach with cover, and go at them. +1

I'd have to agree. I play a DD-C brawler and a Stalker 5M with 35 LRMs and sig laser backup. To single handedly kill even a medium/heavy mech I need to fire nearly an entire load out of LRMs-about 800 or so. The biggest issue making LRMs seem overpowered is that it is typically more than one boat firing and people tend to freeze or run back and forth taking damage until they eventually die. Even with the complaints of "everyone has LRMs" you have to remember that if everyone on the other team is pounding you with lasers, or ACs, or SRMs you're likely to die at least as fast.

Teams that charge in give me perhaps one or two vollies before they are within the LRM range. Even with a load out having a couple LL and at least one ML, I don't typically have the brawling power of most other mechs one on one. Even on light/medium chasses this works. I've recently mastered Kit Fox and am working on Nova. The same thing applies. Unless you are the only mech that decides to make the charge your best option is typically to close ranks with the LRM mechs and hit them at close range. Alas, having played 100% PUG, I've found that the issue is that you typically are the only one who will charge while the reast of the team slowly withers away...

This is rock/paper/scissors to think in simple terms. Don't pull out your paper when the LRM boat shows his scissors-reach for the rock.

[His Holiness Pope Buster]

I have found the Firestarter and Jenner to be particularly effective in taking out isolated LRM boats that are sitting back and lurm spamming your teammates. 150 kph (tweaked) and 6 MLs does the trick.

[PhoenixFire55]

knightsljx, on 14 October 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

The next time you see a LRM heavy team. Tell your team to charge and do not stop until you punch their collective faces in.

And how many mechs will actually follow you? 99% of times it'll end with you charging and your teammates doing next to nothing meanwhile and telling you in chat smth like "nice suicide". Its a sad thing, but PUG matches are most of the time standoffs with sniping and lurming, mostly because nobody wants to be "that guy who goes first tanks and dies". Any team with half a brain will surely charge LRM boats, because if one goes, everybody goes. PUGs aren't teams tho, not anymore.

[Lily from animove]

DevDeathRay, on 14 October 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

LRM paralysis is a real problem in PUGs. When a pilot's mech is getting punished by any weapon, the first reaction is to run and hide. This doesn't work in MWO, and it's especially ineffective when facing a team with superior LRM support. Every LRM boat a team has is one fewer short-range brawler. Find an approach with cover, and go at them. +1

The issue is, the pug doesn't have herd instrict even if you tell them that via chat. They probably don't evenn read it. They act like panicking chickens. And so when a single guy decides to push forward he will most often die lonely while all the chickens float around 250m behind him. In those PUGs where some natural herd dynamic appears the whole gameplay works a lot better, they either hide safely from LRM's or rush efficiently.

[Marmon Rzohr]

knightsljx, on 14 October 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

Change your loadout to short range, low heat, high DPS weapons. SRMs, ACs, regular medium lasers.

The next time you see a LRM heavy team. Tell your team to charge and do not stop until you punch their collective faces in.

If everyone starts doing this, you will realise how pitiful LRM boats are at short range combat

The correct counter to LRMs is not LRMs nor hiding behind cover nor running away nor hoping to out-trade damage at long range. It's to get up to their grills where they can't do anything.

You will ALWAYS lose if you sit back and trade shots with LRM heavy enemies, particularly if you do not have long range, high alpha, pinpoint damage builds. *cough 90 point DWF*

P.S. Staring straight at the missiles while standing still in the open doesn't help your team either.

Ok, brawling the LRM boats does work, however, you can expand your advice a bit more accommodate any loadout.


You need to know how to play each map. Every single map in this game has good, bad and horrible positions on it. The idea is to take good positions and guide your team to them while trying to catch the enemy in a bad position. This is best done at the very start of the match. Where your team goes in the first minute can mean the difference between a crushing win and a crushing defeat. That's why you must NEVER take your time in your own base/spawn before moving.

PUG GROUP TACTICS:
On any map (except spawning on the hill on Alpine) you want to move and keep moving. As long as your team is advancing in tight formation it forces the enemy to reposition and adjust constantly, which hampers both LRM boats and enemy spotters. However you almost never want to run directly into or at the enemy team. You want to move with your team to try and attack their rear or side. That way you'll get favorable engagements where 4-5 mechs on your team will be shooting 1 or 2 enemy mechs caught out of position.

You always want to be moving through good LRM cover, never wide, open areas or low ground. If you aren't sure what the correct tactic for a map is, follow a player on your team who you know is good.

INDIVIDUAL TACTICS:
You want to say with your team and support them. Guide them in team chat if you know what needs to be done. If you see a good way you can get some shots or a strike on the enemy LRM boats, do it, but don't take too much return fire, be sneaky, even if you're a Dire Wolf. Every time you see LRMs coming down on friendlies and you don't see them standing in line of sight of the enemy, look for a UAV. Shooting down UAVs saves lives, literally.

If you see enemy LRM boats (or any mechs really) shooting at your team, go ahead and fire on them. They cannot fire at two targets at once, and if you force them to switch targets then hide, you are making them ineffective. If they ignore you, or don't see you - take a second, aim properly and make the shot count - full laser burn on one component.

SUMMARY:
Know the routes around each map and how to ambush the enemy. Keep the fight moving to get the upper hand over the enemy, but be careful to stay with you team and not split up. If the fight is static keep changing the angle, moving from one corner to another to keep the enemy guessing and switching fire, it reduces their ability to focus fire while relieving pressure off your team. Shoot down UAVs. Abuse hard cover which will shield you completely from LRMs.

Finally, keep firing and be sneaky. You need to out DPS and out trade the enemy. Oh.... and get Radar Deprivation. Best 6 mil C-Bills you'll ever spend.

[Nightmare1]

Don't forget Radar Dep!