7 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

Taken from another thread I posted in:

In War Thunder, they worked around the medium tank vs heavy tank issue by introducing spawn points.

Heavy tanks cost more spawn points to spawn vs medium tanks, based on their battle value (War Thunder has battle value btw), which means you usually can't reuse 2 heavy tanks in the same match. You acquire spawn points by actively participating in the match and doing well in general (die early without having done anything and you'll have to leave and find a new match).

Besides, War Thunder has more role warfare than MWO currently. A Panther is a dedicated tank sniper, which can kill heavier tanks at extremely long ranges, while it doesn't have much survivability at close range. A Tiger, while it can also snipe, really shines under 1000m because of its beastly 88m cannon.

But, I'm drifting from the conversation.

What PGI could do is to give spawn points to mechs depending on their current Battle Value (BV). So, if you wanna go all in and use a Highlander (gee, shows I haven't played the game in a while, I meant DireWhale), suit yourself, but if you die, you won't be coming back. If you spawn with your Trebuchet and kill a mech, then you would probably have acquired enough spawn points to get in a Victor if you die!

It also promotes having longer matches, which IMO is more fun like this, but that's just my opinion. It could cause issues with ammo dependent mechs. War Thunder fixes this by letting you rearm if you come back to your base... MWO could have mechbays...? The maps are much bigger in War Thunder though.. so coming back to base is a big decision to take...

Anyway, I just think PGI could use a similar system, could help with the whole heavy-assault mechs everywhere problem.

Hell, in War Thunder, given particular scenarios, I might not even have enough spawn points to get in my best tank yet. I have to get in a "lesser" tank (I just pwn with the Panther so I don't mind), and prove my worth so I can get into my better tanks in case I die.

Edited by Sybreed, 14 October 2014 - 04:16 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

This is a no respawn game and the devs have decided against a repair system in game early on as a design choice.

The dropship mode gives weight limits which will help some things but still does not help simply poorly designed mechs to compete

The quirks pass may narrow the gap in usability or that is the hope

Battlevalue would need to be dynamic and market based if it were to really work see Rolands excellent thread from ages back.
http://mwomercs.com/...e-value-system/

[Sybreed]

Asmudius Heng, on 14 October 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

This is a no respawn game and the devs have decided against a repair system in game early on as a design choice.

The dropship mode gives weight limits which will help some things but still does not help simply poorly designed mechs to compete

The quirks pass may narrow the gap in usability or that is the hope

Battlevalue would need to be dynamic and market based if it were to really work see Rolands excellent thread from ages back.
http://mwomercs.com/...e-value-system/

Thank you for the history lesson but I'm aware of all that. Since PGI seems open to discussion, I thought this would be interesting to investigate this system. What do you think? You gave 0 input besides "there's other stuff coming", which really brings nothing to the conversation.

[Asmudius Heng]

Sybreed, on 14 October 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Thank you for the history lesson but I'm aware of all that. Since PGI seems open to discussion, I thought this would be interesting to investigate this system. What do you think? You gave 0 input besides "there's other stuff coming", which really brings nothing to the conversation.

Fair point, your post sounded like you did not understand the history.

Basically you are advocating for some sort of dropship mode into the public queue not just CW ... i would be in favour of this, limited respawn is a good idea, waves of attacks, reasons to mave multiple spawn points i am psyched for the idea of limited respawns even in other symmetrical game modes.


How feasible this is i do not know but i would be in favour of having it happen after looking at how it pans out in CW but would require a massive reworking of game modes, maps not just the straight addition of extra respawns which would cause problems especially for their careful reward balance to keep the grind going in a F2P game.

Then comes how you deal with BV ... not just tonnage based is what you are saying i guess? Assuming that two mechs of equal tonnage are not created equal. This is a huge topic obviously because one persons trash is anothers treasure, but the quirks system as mentioned have also used data and opinions to see which is underperforming.

The teir system basically gives us what PGI believe is a BV. would a Tier5 75 tonner be worth 55 tons/BV? Will the quirks system narrow that and provide another tier list? How is it decided? Rolands post is very good at detailing how using data can inform a BV system that is dynamic basically which is why i linked it.

So you have two things that are difficult or at least highly contentious to discuss - bringing respawns/dropsship to the public drops AND how to determine a mech BV anyway.

Both would need to be discussed in depth but my feeling from my initial post is that this is a huge amount of work and PGI may not be willing to go down that path. good for theoretical discussion but perhaps not realistic.

I would say that i do hope they look into dropship mode for the public queue somehow.

[Zyllos]

Asmudius Heng, on 14 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

...

Basically you are advocating for some sort of dropship mode into the public queue not just CW ... i would be in favour of this, limited respawn is a good idea, waves of attacks, reasons to mave multiple spawn points i am psyched for the idea of limited respawns even in other symmetrical game modes.

...

Just a FYI, we are NOT getting a limited re spawn mode for Assault/Conquest/Skirmish. The DropShip is a stand alone mode only for 1 or 2 specific maps that PGI is developing for CW.

[OznerpaG]

i don't know if this is kinda-sorta what you are talking about since i never played war thunder, but for PUG it would be interesting to have a 100t drop weight and up to 1 respawn:

you pick a mech from 85-100t and you get no respawn since you don't have enough tonnage left over for a 2nd mech and get your respawn

otherwise you get 2 mechs in a match that add up to 100t - if you use less than the 100t for the 2 mechs then you waste that tonnage

you'd definitely see more of a mix of mechs on the battlefield, and everyone would technically drop with the same weight so no more need for 3/3/3/3

Edited by JagdFlanker, 14 October 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

Zyllos, on 14 October 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

Just a FYI, we are NOT getting a limited re spawn mode for Assault/Conquest/Skirmish. The DropShip is a stand alone mode only for 1 or 2 specific maps that PGI is developing for CW.

Not saying we are getting it, i would just support using the concept for other modes and in the public queue is all but its not a priority.

[Sybreed]

JagdFlanker, on 14 October 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

i don't know if this is kinda-sorta what you are talking about since i never played war thunder, but for PUG it would be interesting to have a 100t drop weight and up to 1 respawn:

you pick a mech from 85-100t and you get no respawn since you don't have enough tonnage left over for a 2nd mech and get your respawn

otherwise you get 2 mechs in a match that add up to 100t - if you use less than the 100t for the 2 mechs then you waste that tonnage

you'd definitely see more of a mix of mechs on the battlefield, and everyone would technically drop with the same weight so no more need for 3/3/3/3

before the spawn point system in WT, they used a similar system. You either spawn with 1 heavy tank ONCE, or you could get 2 medium tanks. It ended up being a big disadvantage for the heavy tank users since it's quite easy, even in a heavy tank, to get 1-shot by a strong enough cannon. Your idea could face a similar issue because an unlucky pilot could be at the wrong place at the wrong time and be completely wiped out by the enemy team in mere seconds. I'm not saying your idea has no merits, it's certainly already better than the current system to promote lighter mechs, but there's the potential flaw that someone could get kicked out of a match because he got unlucky.

Besides, the spawn point system also promotes that you participate in your match. If you just stand idle, you get 0 points and can't get in another tank (mech in our case) if you die.