19 replies to this topic

[Shredhead]

Yup, This seems legit.
Scientists just released the results of the second independent evaluation of the functionality of the "Rossi" cold fusion reactor.
The results, if they survive the peer review phase, which seems highly likely, are stunning!
It seems the reactor can produce around 31 times the energy needed to ignite it!
Here's the published paper in full length (warning, much science ):
http://www.sifferkol...eportSubmit.pdf

[Kalimaster]

I could see myself piloting a real Mech. Then I also could see how much trouble I would get into with one.

[Shredhead]

Marack Drock, on 10 October 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

eh. They said the same thing 3 years ago actually. You see power has never been the biggest issue. Its always been making it walk. Because the Mech must shift its weight on ONE leg in order to walk so they much design a Gyro/Hip/Weight Shifter that is strong enough to support the several ton body of the mech and collapse out from under it. Mechs are also just extremely unlikely as a battle element because lets face it, in real life one good tank shot to the leg or at the top of the torso and this mech goes down in one fell swoop.

If you follow the link you'll see how small this reactor is. To get a grasp on the quite colorful history of the "Rossi" reactor, just google it. It sounds like a science fiction story revolving around a genius, but very strange scientist. To this day Signore Rossi has not revealed how his reactor works.

Edited by Shredhead, 10 October 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[990Dreams]

This is going to be the best type of fusion reactor (based on the way it contains and creates fusion). Take a look at those figures. Let that sink in and crush your dreams of having Mechs in your lifetime...

[Shredhead]

DavidHurricane, on 10 October 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

This is going to be the best type of fusion reactor (based on the way it contains and creates fusion). Take a look at those figures. Let that sink in and crush your dreams of having Mechs in your lifetime...

ITER still doesn't work. The Rossi reactor does.

Marack Drock, on 10 October 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

I'm not talking about the reactor. I am talking about, Cockpit, Gyros, weapons, armor, frame, electronics and such etc. IT will way a couple tons at least. Probably (minus the legs) the full size, armored, mech would way about 20 to 30 tons. I mean the Tanks George Patton led in Battle of the Bulge weighed over 30 tons (I saw one of the tanks at an Army Base near Fort Knox in Kentucky and yes I got to go inside it). 30 tons on the top of those legs is MASSIVE. MechWarrior makes it seem possible and maybe it is but the amount of structural integrity it would take to keep up those legs is more than the amount it would take to create a Submarine that can go to the very bottom of the deepest part of the ocean (which hasn't been done yet as it is over 8000 pounds per square inch of water at that depth). Mechs are a physical impossibility from the weight limit alone.

As for that Reactor there is no way it is powerful enough to drive a mech. Like David said it is hopeless.

The other problem with the logic of mechs is that there is no way those speeds would be possible in real life because of the weight and balance issues. Mechs are really some of the most improbable weapons of war. In real life, tanks fulfill the rolls MUCH better than a mech ever would.

What? Who in his right mind would believe that mechs as fighting machines would ever be even thought about? Nah, that's of course ridiculous.
Mechs can fulfil other purposes though, lifting, exploration etc.
And the reactor that was tested here is small, yes, but it's only built for this purpose. We humans tend to improve the stuff we invent over time, though. Just a reminder how they thought computers would look like today:

[Rebas Kradd]

We're one step closer to solving the global energy crisis and you're talking about Battlemechs?

[Shredhead]

Rebas Kradd, on 10 October 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

We're one step closer to solving the global energy crisis and you're talking about Battlemechs?

Nah, I just made that point because it's the freaking MWO forums. The small size of this reactor also seems to indicate that it might be useful to power individual vehicles as well.
Of course I am excited because it's such a gigantic step forward.

[Alreech]

Cold Fusion again ?
Let's wait and see if it's real. Even if it works, it won't solve every energy problem over night, because most of those problems are not of technical, but of political or economical nature.

Regarding "Real Life Battlemechs":
FASAs Mechs are way to big and heavy to work. The biggest bipedal creature have had a mass around 5 to 9 tons, so that's probably the limit.
Where is a exoskeleton program at DARPA, and if those things work some day (if...) it would be the next logical step to make them bigger and more heavy armed and armored.
Those things won't be a match for a tank or a plane, but against light armed troops in a city environment they could be more useful than a tank or an apc .
That's exactly the kind of situation western troops nowadays have to face in war zones like Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia. A small bipedal Warmachine of 6 tons with a 20mm autocannon could be a better solution for peacekeeping than a tank with a 120mm gun

[kingalbertII]

Marack Drock, on 10 October 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

I'm not talking about the reactor. I am talking about, Cockpit, Gyros, weapons, armor, frame, electronics and such etc. IT will way a couple tons at least. Probably (minus the legs) the full size, armored, mech would way about 20 to 30 tons. I mean the Tanks George Patton led in Battle of the Bulge weighed over 30 tons (I saw one of the tanks at an Army Base near Fort Knox in Kentucky and yes I got to go inside it). 30 tons on the top of those legs is MASSIVE. MechWarrior makes it seem possible and maybe it is but the amount of structural integrity it would take to keep up those legs is more than the amount it would take to create a Submarine that can go to the very bottom of the deepest part of the ocean (which hasn't been done yet as it is over 8000 pounds per square inch of water at that depth). Mechs are a physical impossibility from the weight limit alone.

As for that Reactor there is no way it is powerful enough to drive a mech. Like David said it is hopeless.

The other problem with the logic of mechs is that there is no way those speeds would be possible in real life because of the weight and balance issues. Mechs are really some of the most improbable weapons of war. In real life, tanks fulfill the rolls MUCH better than a mech ever would.

what about 4 legged mechs?

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Most of the understanding and construction ideas for very large devices still centers around mechanical components driving all the moving parts. Gears, motors, hydraulics, pneumatics and the likes.
- Creating the rather slow elements we see in very large operating devices.

This is about to change as we now have items that are similar to the Battle Tech myomers, items that react nearly identical to muscle and have 10 times or more there strength and speed.
- these items are still small for there testing requirements but they are working.
(both electrical and chemical activation methods.)

Both the civilian and military are seriously researching this technology.
- Both as new tech and as replacement for similar more complex elements we operate devices with now.

If your still thinking that large devices are slow, you'll need to watch a large robotic factory articulated arm running at optimal speeds. They can be scary fast, and are normally slowed down to protect us, not them.
- Now that's still motors, electrical and programed paths and routes but the replacement is coming into industrial feasibility.

Most if not all of the requirements for articulated movement is being studied on a much grander scale than ever before. Robotics are a standard and rather common field of study and research now.

It's not the devices that move the element any more that are the primary issues or problems, it's the sensor requirements to understand just what is happening in and around the device. Development of this technology is at the peak of robotic movement, operation and understanding. (knowing where to move, how and adapting to changing environment)
- If your following along with the self driving vehicles and the sensor devices they employ, to carry out that function, you start to get an understanding of just how complicated these systems need to be. And that's only wheeled or tracked ground based elements, normally on hard paved surfaces.

Just some info,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 11 October 2014 - 09:19 PM.

[StompingOnTanks]

Well, I'm just going to say...

A mech built with modern technology would be useless for any form of real warfare. It's impossible to deny that legs, in theory, have a huge mobility advantage over any conventional drive system. However, the technology to make it work just isn't there. It's like trying to build a supersonic jet fighter with technology and materials in the 1940's - it just can't happen.

I'm not dismissing mechs in any way shape or form entirely. They won't be humanoid, but with lighter and stronger materials, better computers, better power sources, lighter, more powerful weapons, and a way to alleviate ground pressure, you could build what is essentially a go-anywhere, anytime weapons platform with a much wider range of obstacle navigation and movement capability than any current ground system, even if it is somewhat slower. When you think of it that way, on a tactical level, mechs - or something roughly similar - become very advantageous in many situations where tracked and wheeled APCs suffer.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

In this timeline they did develop tanks and vehicles to there full potential.
- As the armour improved it became 'not enough' firepower could be brought in this tracked or wheeled based element.
- They were slow, and restricted by terrain. ~ we are now talking of weights in the 75 Ton class.
(just as today, slow being a relative term, but terrain hampered or restricted none the less.)

The majority of conflicts still had conventional elements as we see today. And many locations, Planets, or systems fell to just this type of warfare. This went on for decades, centuries in most cases.
- When the original Mech was built it was never about the military, it was industrial applications only, and still operated with rather conventional engines with no armour requirements. (environmental protection, yes.)
- Hazardous or very dangerous terrain was one of it's prime rolls, others branched off into forestry, agricultural, or general heavy loading and demolition.

It wasn't until the production of small fusion power plants that the military took a real interest.
- They already had the large weapon systems but nothing that could effectively carry and operate them.
- The timeline and Lore now states that every effort was made to get a working unit into production and the field.
- Carrying more armour than any normal military vehicle could defeat, and fire power that could be moved very rapidly anywhere on the battlefield. (remember, these elements can climb with there hands and legs if needed.)
- Terrain or environment no longer became an obstacle to where these units could be taken.

The early proto types were crude by normal Mech standards, difficult to operate, but a force to be reckoned with. Conventional military units did not have the firepower or defences against these types of elements.
- So the great Mech race began, in this timeline the only defence against massed Mech's was 'other' Mech's.
- Yes, conventional forces, aerospace, and very heavy weapons systems could slow down the advance. But initially, the Mech killing weapons systems were not able to be brought to where the battles happened. Strikes on key infrastructures could reduce a Factions ability to actually defend itself.

And if your of the opinion that when the 'carp' hits the fan, just nuke it from orbit. Well they did that, or orbital directed fire. But it was costly and you first need to be able to hold the orbital locations.
- this was not always the case if the Planet was being assaulted, as that normally were the first battles to happen, before any landing happened.

At the time of the first fielded BattleMech, (year 2439) the Mackie, there were no others. No other Faction had seen anything like it, arriving at 100Tons with weapons that utterly obliterated the test targets, four remote-control Merkava heavy tanks (75Tons). And it was 15yrs before the plans were stolen for how to build and construct this type of element.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mackie
note: Perhaps the most important part the Merkava played in history was serving as the opposing force for the first BattleMech, the Mackie's live-fire combat trial. Four remote-controlled Merkava Mk VIs were destroyed in such a fashion as to shock the observers, sealing the BattleMech's rise to the position of king of the battlefield.
Side note: At the time of this Mech's introduction the normal tanks only carried about 4 to 5 tons of Armour max. The Mech had more than that on one of it's legs, so, no easy legging happening here.

Just some info,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 12 October 2014 - 10:32 PM.

[Hinder]

when Mohandas Gandhi was asked what he thought of western civilization he said "I think it would be a very good idea."

i feel the same way about cold fusion.
i have read science fiction stories [other than this one] and i agree whole heartedly about how wonderful it would be.
when i see it powering a city i'll beleive it.
when it is small enough to power a ship, a train or a big stompy robot i will be impressed.
even though i am very sceptical, i hope this works.
i think that it has a slightly better chance than other perpetual motion machines i have seen.

[Alreech]

9erRed, on 12 October 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

Greetings all,

In this timeline they did develop tanks and vehicles to there full potential.
- As the armour improved it became 'not enough' firepower could be brought in this tracked or wheeled based element.
- They were slow, and restricted by terrain. ~ we are now talking of weights in the 75 Ton class.
(just as today, slow being a relative term, but terrain hampered or restricted none the less.)

Well, the time line of the Battletech Universe is just fluff as background for a game with big stompy robots
But to honor FASA they didn't went the easy way (soft SciFi and evil Aliens), instead they created a grim and gritty universe with no clear evil fractions, Hard SciFi (no Shields, no Antigravitation, ect...) and no intelligent aliens.

An interesting aspect of the background is that the Terran Hegemony was a state created by a military coup with the long term objective to reoccupy former colony worlds lost due rebellious populations.
Most of those colony's won't have much tanks or air force to repel a Terran attack, an a force of big armored giants with a huge guns should put more than enough shock and awe in potential rebels to keep them at bay.

Edited by Alreech, 15 October 2014 - 10:50 AM.