Hey there so I've been playing the game for over a year apparently but haven't taken the time to find out how flamers work,I've Built a DireWolf with 4x C,UAC5's,4x c,erml,4x Flamers,2x MG's.I do well enough with it sometimes getting in the 900's for damage and ending 2-3 Mech's a match when not hung out to dry.(It is still a slug to maneuver and only in Pug matches do I ever do really well)
So my reasoning was ok 4x flamer for one ton is that a steal/add diversity? but scared to use them until I Know!?: do the flamers damage the core bypassing the armour via heat? OR is it worth using but only on armourless components? Or is it only worth using on an overheated mech? AND if so does it stop the overheated enemy mech from overriding overheat shutdown?the last case being my (unknown) reasoning for having them at all,aside from using them to blind/defend against lights...also guessing if just having extra critical hit points is a small help?..if people hit the weapon instead of the body part?
So in short please explain how flamers work,thanks.
Edited by CorditeJunkie, 16 October 2014 - 06:55 PM.
Flamers deal diddly for damage (they get increased crit on internals, but only after armor has been stripped). What they do is heat up your enemy's mech (up to 90%), and makes any weapon they fire generate a lot more heat than normal. It was nerfed from just heating up your opponents permanently, because that would allow you to perma stun someone, and keep them powered down and over heated.
As it stands, flamers are the worst weapon in the game. They have things they can do (like blinding your enemy), but in all honesty, they are only good for short range croud control, and for secondary effects such as extra crits on internals. They are still very bad. You also want to chain fire them, since prolonged use makes them generate exponential heat on your own mech as well. It's kinda crazy.
Flamers will add heat to your target as long as you hold them over your target. Similar to machine guns, they are hitscan weapons that don't do much damage on their own, but do more damage when they cause critical hits on unarmoured components, making them good for causing ammo explosions and getting rid of large weapons like AC/20s and gauss rifles. Their heat applying properties are hindered by two factors:
1) Flamers can never raise a target's heat above 90%, the final 10% to shutdown has to be supplied by the target themselves doing something. If a 'Mech is above 90%, flamers do damage (both armour, internal structure, and critical slot damage) but don't add heat. This means you can't keep a 'Mech locked with flamers.
2) Flamers cause linear heat to your target, but exponential heat to yourself. So (using generic numbers here) after 1 second you'd have added 1 heat to your target, and 1 to yourself, but after 2 seconds you'd have added 2 heat to your target but 4 to yourself, while after 3 seconds it's 3 to them and 9 to yourself, and so on. You need to rest the flamers for a number of seconds since you activated them before that resets.
Edit: Ninja'd by IraqiWalker.
Edited by Sparks Murphey, 16 October 2014 - 06:54 PM.
Flamers can damage the enemy core and bypass armor in a roundaout way. Flamers can only ever push the enemy to 90% heat, but if your enemy is at 90% heat and he fires a hot weapon he can easily overheat himself, which will cause damage ot his internal CT. If your target is not being careful he can easily overheat and begin causing damage to his own internals and, in theory, you could kill him without ever breaching the armor via overheat damage.
Thanks for the replys,so I've found one use for them and its defending against lights that are giving the DireWolf everything they've got,over heating them for the easy leg/kill and (cheap weight) zombie brawling,the clutch play damage at the end of the battle,but yea marginal effectiveness really.Just cracked my first 1000.dmg at 1007 and a handful of kills.
Edited by CorditeJunkie, 17 October 2014 - 03:36 AM.
I built a Flamer x8 Firestarter and it was a blast. If you do use flamers.. NEVER CHAINFIRE THEM! because even though you won't overheat doing that.. it renders them nearly completely ineffective in the sense that ontop of only dealing minimal damage to your target since you're only using one flamer at a time.. it only has a chance to blind your target.
The range blows even with the range enhancements but they're still nice to add frustration to your target's complications of dealing with heat. 'specially when you're playing on hot maps like Terra Therma.
Flamers don't work against lights because any decent light knows how to maintain specific distances from their targets. They can dance with you just past the flamer max range. Not to mention that with a dire wolf in particular they are able to stay behind you without you ever, ever looking at them.
Flamers don't work against lights because any decent light knows how to maintain specific distances from their targets. They can dance with you just past the flamer max range. Not to mention that with a dire wolf in particular they are able to stay behind you without you ever, ever looking at them.
True story^^
Yea well nothing works against that,unless the Puppy can park its arse against a wall then when the light try's to get fresh at point blank it gets fried,<<true story.I'm finding they're not quite as **** as people say(flamers),Otherwise if the lights outside of (4x flame)+(2x MG) range it get's (4x chain fired ERML)+(4x alpha striking CUAC.5's) directed at its legs.
I still think 4x flamers at one ton for the lot is a deal,not your main weapon choice just added versatility.I've got so much firepower I don't really need them.I was just fooling around in the testing grounds with chain firing the flamers for as long as I want for zero heat,might add it to the brawling weapon groups,be nice to heat your opponent during the fight for no penalty.
But then I just read "NEVER CHAINFIRE THEM" so...love experimenting!
Edited by CorditeJunkie, 19 October 2014 - 05:37 AM.
CorditeJunkie, on 16 October 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:
Hey there so I've been playing the game for over a year apparently but haven't taken the time to find out how flamers work,I've Built a DireWolf with 4x C,UAC5's,4x c,erml,4x Flamers,2x MG's.I do well enough with it sometimes getting in the 900's for damage and ending 2-3 Mech's a match when not hung out to dry.(It is still a slug to maneuver and only in Pug matches do I ever do really well)
So my reasoning was ok 4x flamer for one ton is that a steal/add diversity? but scared to use them until I Know!?: do the flamers damage the core bypassing the armour via heat? OR is it worth using but only on armourless components? Or is it only worth using on an overheated mech? AND if so does it stop the overheated enemy mech from overriding overheat shutdown?the last case being my (unknown) reasoning for having them at all,aside from using them to blind/defend against lights...also guessing if just having extra critical hit points is a small help?..if people hit the weapon instead of the body part?
So in short please explain how flamers work,thanks.
At one point in time, it was known for causing internal damage with heat, but at the time the heat it could produce was not limited and the flamers did 0.017 damage per tick, 0.17 damage per second, and 1.7 damage in 10 seconds. (at the time the MGs were doing 0.02 damage per shot, 0.2 damage per second and 2 damage per 10 seconds). Even so they were largely more effective back then. One part because a glitch would cause them to instantly drop the heat they generated the moment you stopped firing. One part because the heat they generated would 1) stack and 2) had no cap.
You could essentially overheat someone until they exploded with enough flamers. 4 was enough to do some nasty internal damage through the armor. This wasn't actually caused by the heat of the flamers, however. It was caused by raising enemies to above 80% and keeping them there, which in turn caused them to receive damage to their equipment (heatsinks melting, weapons taking damage, ammo detonating; it was gradual in the form of 1 damage to a component for every second above 80% heat). This would in turn cause the heatsinks to melt making it easier to maintain and ammo to explode eventually. Pop, pop, pop, kaboom.
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But that was then. Now they do 7 damage in 10 seconds (0.7 damage per second) ((0.07 damage per tick)).
A single flamer can do up to a maximum of 10.15 (7 + 3.15 as 15% of 21 critical component damage) damage in 10 seconds against internal structure, assuming every single 'tick' crits and every successful crit is a triple crit.
Its maximum possible heat (to where it becomes completely ineffective against the enemy) is 90%.
8 flamers will cause a 10 SHS no skill unlock mech to generate 60% heat before the 17 DHS elite-skill mech overheats itself.
Largely it's useless. This is because of the heat retention applied to the enemy is also applied to your mech for the continuous use of flamers. Flamers work better when used in spurts rather than constant spray. While ineffective for generating any heat at all (to either side), it's possible to have flamers run eternally by chain firing them in pairs. This is because the on / off notion does not allow heat retention to stack.
It is little more than a light show that deals the damage of one flamer for every two. But that light show has a few other side benefits: 1) It lags the living crap out of slower computers; GLEE! 2) it's blinding, which is distracting and will possibly throw off the enemy's aim. 3) makes smoke, which generates particles, which lags lower-end computers even more! 4) They look cool.
Sadly it comes with its own flaw. You're not likely to see too well either.
This one only shuts down because of ghost heat stacking against me (I didn't know they changed SRM-4 limits on ghost heat at the time).
(Side note; Clarification: It makes smoke when it hits the ground and some surfaces [including some but not all mechs]).
Flamers are a hitscan (instant hit; like MGs and lasers) weapon and requires zero-leading. Even so, akin to MGs, it also has a cone of fire mechanic. (Where it does damage isn't quite where you point; the closer you are the more this becomes apparent although part of this is convergence).
I've legged light 'mechs using flamers 'cause they usually end up getting too close as they're circling me. Plus.. I guess it lags a lot of players out when confronted with flamers causing their frame rate to drop dramatically.
You're right about "any decent light (pilot) knows how to maintain specific distances from their target(s) (weapon systems)" but in the heat of battle most lose their heads and just fly right in within range of the flamers.
Not all is lost when it comes to the usefulness of any weapon as some like to think.. it just depends on the situation and the pilots involved.
Krivvan, on 18 October 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:
Flamers don't work against lights because any decent light knows how to maintain specific distances from their targets. They can dance with you just past the flamer max range. Not to mention that with a dire wolf in particular they are able to stay behind you without you ever, ever looking at them.
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