15 replies to this topic

[Fluffy Kitten]

ok, even though i have old tags, i have hardly played any games in MWO.
i played a tonn during CBT, and gave my feedback, and hoped they would make the game more tactical, as it just was a stand around HP attrition game back then.

I then popped back after the second wave of mechs showed, up, and played my trial time worth of games, but still noticed that the game play was still very poor and hardly tactical at all.

so My question, has the game game changed yet to be a tactical robot combat game, or is it still just a HP brawl?

can mechs use tier elbow actuators, and point their arms straight out to shoot (thus increasing their barrel elevation somewhere near their cockpit) or are half of the mechs still walking up a hill exposing their entire centre torso so they can shoot their arm weapons from their belt buckle.....

has the hud improved, (even a second party mod) to allow you to have a good understanding where your legs are in relation to your torso? or is it still the teeny tiny triangles in a very small visual realestate on your screen, which is near impossible to keep track of when you are in a fire fight....

is there a full freedom with key mapping, and movement (like being able to make your input opposite when backing a mech up) or are the devs still mapping inputs akin to a race car game?

I realize i have a pretty high standard, since i play at some pretty elite levels/groups in other games. when I played before i realized the platform and mechanics that MWO can achieve with some adjustments had great potential. I check in every now and then to see if the devs have overcame their issues and fixed the game so it could be a great game.

[Nightmare1]

It's good.

Why don't you log in and test the waters?

Check out my Twitch and YouTube Channels for some gameplay vids if you'd like a good idea of what the matches are like. I'm streaming right now, actually...

Edit: YouTube here: https://www.youtube....Pa4HqDhPzkWo1ZA
Twitch channel below my sig.

Edited by Nightmare1, 16 October 2014 - 07:09 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

I love when people who misspell words criticize other people's work.

BTW, if you are so "leet", then why can't you keep up with which way you are facing? Or adapt to a different UI?

Lastly, JIC you aren't what I think you are, playing is the best way to overcome most of that. Also, if you have to expose yourself to shoot, then so do others. That is the main thing that makes me question your maturity shall we say...focusing solely on what a change would do for you, and ignoring the rest of the consequences.



PS: If you spelling suffers due to English not being your first language, then ignore that part of what I said.

[Fluffy Kitten]

Nick Makiaveli, on 16 October 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

, if you have to expose yourself to shoot, then so do others.

this kind of made me laugh.
on many levels...,

regardless, changing just that little issue of actually using an arm as, well, an arm would benefit everyone, not just little old arrogant self centred me. it would change the game a great deal. it would no longer be just counterstrike with robots. where you just march toward the blip on the mini map. it would add such a huge dynamic with topographic positioning. currently there are a large group of mechs with a very failtarded deflection in regard to their own hardpoint to target.

But, with some weird tactics that work well (like the mario cartish autolock, cirlce spray n pray) its all about using the awkward UI to your benefit.

I realize that this is a game, and each game has its own meta and dynamics that set it apart from its competition.
I am not beneath the hard learning curve, in fact i like a steep learning curve to separate out the skill vs the noob.
but learning a complicated system is ok if it takes time, but if the system is goofy then learning it will still not make it ungoofy.

its hard to explain to someone what they dont know, if you dont know any different, then you dont know it can be different.
(you dont know what you dont know)

what i have had a problem since beta was with the basic mechanic made no sense. from a professional standpoint, i know its not a difficult thing to address, and sticking to the lore is noble, but its lore... it can be (and has) changed in regards to making a game more playable (if anyone remembers the old TT books where there was a drawing of an atlas raising his arms over his shoulders and shooting straight ahead) the concept was around 25 years ago...

Edited by Fluffy Kitten, 16 October 2014 - 10:33 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

To the OP,

For your questions, I'd have to answer a general "no" for each. That is, there are some tactics involved, but probably not as deep as you seem to desire from your post. However, tactics are far more prevalent when you are on voice comms with a group. You can now have group sizes of 2-12 in the group only queue which sounds more like what you are after. I'd recommend trying to find some people to play with on one of the free TS servers posted around here somewhere and give it a try. It might be tactical enough for you when you're with a team. Certainly more challenging opponents. The joystick support has improved, but I don't use joysticks so I can't say how improved it is but I don't think it can do what you want it to do.

[Redshift2k5]

There are several mechs that use cockpit-level arms if that's what you like. Having some mechs with different arms adds to the variety, and while high-mounted arms are generally seen as a positive trait, having mechs with more lateral arm movement are good at different things. Adds variety.

Some people will certainly prefer some mech traits over others, and while an Atlas does need to crest almost it's whole mech to shoot most of it's weapons, it has many other positive traits in it's favour. It's a bad hill-humper but good at other things, and a Jagermech is a great hill-humper but bad at other things. you're free to only buy the mechs that have traits, hardpoints, or shapes you like.



Unfortunately the answer is "no" to all of your questions. They never announced they would add these features, so holding out for a features nobody is clamoring for seems a bit odd.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Fluffy Kitten, on 16 October 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

<words and stuff>

The sad part is you can't or won't apply your own words to yourself. You know nothing about me, yet you just barrel on like you do because it supports your belief system.

Have fun being a special snowflake....

[RazorbeastFXK3]

Welcome to Mechwarrior Online mwomercs.com, Fluffy Kitten. I hope you enjoy your stay here as much if not more than I have.

I don't know what CBT is so I can't comment on that other than state the obvious that I don't know what CBT is.

Fluffy Kitten, on 16 October 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

ok, even though i have old tags, i have hardly played any games in MWO.
i played a tonn during CBT, and gave my feedback, and hoped they would make the game more tactical, as it just was a stand around HP attrition game back then.

The game has improved quite a bit between then and now. We have 12 vs 12 sorties with the option to drop solo or create a group of friends to drop with for an easier time. I haven't added any friends nor have I received friend requests (that I know of) so I've never dropped in a premade group yet.

I've seen videos of how it used to be where it was 6vs6 or 8vs8 but I joined when it was 12vs12 and the mechanics of weaponry has changed a bit too along with hitbox adjustments and 'mech enhancements with the amount of armor they're allowed.

Fluffy Kitten, on 16 October 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

I then popped back after the second wave of mechs showed, up, and played my trial time worth of games, but still noticed that the game play was still very poor and hardly tactical at all.

It seems more tactical to me 'cause you need coordination with your team to assist with your survival in battle and to help with racking up the C-Bill/XP count for upgrades and modules and such. Ultimately it does boil down to who has the better aim and armor placement (health point) and control over their 'mech in general but it's far from a simple "wham bam thank you ma'am" joke like most FPS games are.

Fluffy Kitten, on 16 October 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

so My question, has the game game changed yet to be a tactical robot combat game, or is it still just a HP brawl?

So far clan 'mechs are the only ones that allow you to add/remove actuators but neither clan nor innersphere 'mechs have the ability to "point their arms straight out to shoot" but the actuators provide the ability to move them side to side or further up and down.

Fluffy Kitten, on 16 October 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

can mechs use tier elbow actuators, and point their arms straight out to shoot (thus increasing their barrel elevation somewhere near their cockpit) or are half of the mechs still walking up a hill exposing their entire centre torso so they can shoot their arm weapons from their belt buckle.....

The HUD still has the mini radar map that shows your direction of view (cone) and the direction your legs are pointing (dashed line) but you also have a compass near the top of your reticle that shows you the direction you're facing (North/West/East/South) and the direction your legs are facing via triangles on the gauge. The compass also shows capture points (when playing Conquest) and targeted enemies instead of always having to rely on the tiny radar all the time. Then there's the overview battle map where you hit the default 'B' key to bring it up to get a better idea of where you are in relation to your team's target.

Fluffy Kitten, on 16 October 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

has the hud improved, (even a second party mod) to allow you to have a good understanding where your legs are in relation to your torso? or is it still the teeny tiny triangles in a very small visual realestate on your screen, which is near impossible to keep track of when you are in a fire fight....

Yes, you can remap your keyboard/mouse/joystick buttons to however you want to better suit your personal playstyle.

Fluffy Kitten, on 16 October 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

is there a full freedom with key mapping, and movement (like being able to make your input opposite when backing a mech up) or are the devs still mapping inputs akin to a race car game?

You're not much different than most when it comes to the "high standard" you inquired about but it's all welcomed all the same 'cause it just adds more to the game itself for most if not everyone involved in battle with or against you.

Aside from that there's Teamspeak 3 that a lot of Mechwarriors use here when they drop in groups so they don't constantly have to rely on using text to communicate and a lot of them are very respectable (at least from what I hear through NoGutsNoGalaxy) where you won't be subject to cries of "omfg u noob!" or other childish outbursts over your speakers/headset.

Fluffy Kitten, on 16 October 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

I realize i have a pretty high standard, since i play at some pretty elite levels/groups in other games. when I played before i realized the platform and mechanics that MWO can achieve with some adjustments had great potential. I check in every now and then to see if the devs have overcame their issues and fixed the game so it could be a great game.

[Koniving]

Your standards are abit like what I have designed in anticipation of someday making a Battletech game (notice I didn't say Mechwarrior).

Spoiler

For example, lets say this is your mech. (this is a model I made when I was 14, I'm 29 now).

pressing Q or E would rotate your cockpit (if you have a cockpit inside a functioning head).

This also raises the corresponding arm. So long as they can, both arms will track provided they both have lower arm actuators. Once you reach a certain range, the opposing arm will drop to its neutral position.

This gives a sort of cinematic look, while allowing mechs to fire over ridges.

But.. These are not in the designs for MWO. I am sorry to say that truly tactical combat took its final blow during early open beta. What we have now is fast paced combat and/or camper battles with tactical elements (not quite the same).

I do not think there is hope of further tactical elements unless the objectives of game modes begin to have at minimum equal importance and priority to destroying the enemy. Right now it's complete the objective (assault mode) for the same amount of money you'd get for immediately committing suicide or kill everyone for boatloads of cash.

Upcoming game modes with Community Warfare are hoping to change this fact, however.

(Admittedly, your standards are exceptionally high, even multi-million dollar games barely scrap on this level. I'm sorry, much as Battletech fans wanted a simulator, what we have is a medium-paced team-based semi-tactical shooter.)

[RazorbeastFXK3]

I couldn't help but get this image in my head after reading about the arm raising up. http://workydaddy.fi...ckem_sockem.jpg

Koniving, on 17 October 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Your standards are abit like what I have designed in anticipation of someday making a Battletech game (notice I didn't say Mechwarrior).

Spoiler

For example, lets say this is your mech. (this is a model I made when I was 14, I'm 29 now).

pressing Q or E would rotate your cockpit (if you have a cockpit inside a functioning head).

This also raises the corresponding arm. So long as they can, both arms will track provided they both have lower arm actuators. Once you reach a certain range, the opposing arm will drop to its neutral position.

This gives a sort of cinematic look, while allowing mechs to fire over ridges.

But.. These are not in the designs for MWO. I am sorry to say that truly tactical combat took its final blow during early open beta. What we have now is fast paced combat and/or camper battles with tactical elements (not quite the same).

I do not think there is hope of further tactical elements unless the objectives of game modes begin to have at minimum equal importance and priority to destroying the enemy. Right now it's complete the objective (assault mode) for the same amount of money you'd get for immediately committing suicide or kill everyone for boatloads of cash.

Upcoming game modes with Community Warfare are hoping to change this fact, however.

(Admittedly, your standards are exceptionally high, even multi-million dollar games barely scrap on this level. I'm sorry, much as Battletech fans wanted a simulator, what we have is a medium-paced team-based semi-tactical shooter.)

[WarPickle]

There are Zero Tactics involved... which ever team can form into the biggest blob and sticks together can win easily.... try flanking maneuvers or anything that deviates from the blob you will be chewed up and the blob will not help you!

I wish there was another way to play other than that but sadly there is no reason to.. In CBT we had more outside real estate to pull flanking maneuvers... that has been taken away.. now it's blob goes left or blob goes right... but that could just be the PUG games.. the life of a lone wolf is paved in lots of WTF is the team doing moments, lol...

Edited by BasicInfantry, 17 October 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[Krivvan]

BasicInfantry, on 17 October 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

There are Zero Tactics involved... which ever team can form into the biggest blob and sticks together can win easily.... try flanking maneuvers or anything that deviates from the blob you will be chewed up and the blob will not help you!

This is because most teams don't have the coordination or basics down to move on from anything but being in a blob. Way too many groups try cute stuff like "flanking maneuvers" and "distractions" without having any understanding of the basics and fundamental skills, so when that cute stuff fails they think they can't ever work.

A flanking manuever that isn't pulled off perfectly is called letting the enemy team fight only half of your team at a time. That applies in pretty much any game. In more competitive matches, teams can actually split apart for reasons, light mechs frequently have to move all over the place, scouting is extraordinarily important, etc.

For one thing, in the solo queue you frequently see that most teams don't understand aggression. They don't understand specific positions on each map where the enemy has cover and easy retreat and where you don't, you need to push hard into the enemy. Instead you frequently see the entire team pause and just stand there in the open thinking that trading unfavourably will somehow end up with them winning. How can you expect teams to do flanking when they can't grasp when to move forwards?

It's like someone playing Starcraft, not knowing how to macro/manage a basic economy, then blaming the game for being simplistic because their "tactics" don't win them games.

Edited by Krivvan, 18 October 2014 - 12:25 AM.

[WarPickle]

I agree completely...

I really think a group of players should get together and start training school for tactics... heck everything you want to know.

Hands on experience and training would go a long way towards the new player experience... Anyone willing to start the [TRNG] Training Clan

A school that accepts all... teach all aspects of game then release back on their own when they are ready. Different courses... and free pudding for all!

[UrsusMorologus]

Team tactics require coordination. Internet pug games are no good at that, language barriers, personality disorders, etc. If you want tactical robot play you need to get in a team that does it. Before that though you need to get some stick time with the different chassis and learn how to use them in their respective roles. Its kind of like you are sitting back and asking the game to please bring you some tactical play, uhh no the game has tools but you have to do the high-level thinking to make them work in a structured combat model.

Game is fun, to me, if that was the question. Not everybody will find it fun, and thats okay. I like the role-based warfare, I like the deep balance model, most mechs behave different and are better at exploiting different kinds of opportunities for tactical advantage, and it seems to me that PGI is at least trying to deliver a fun game experience. I come from a game where the devs stopped trying, where everything is a moneygrab and major gameplay components are either ignored or removed as not justifiable to fix. MWO is a cool drink of water to me, after that.

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 18 October 2014 - 08:48 AM.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

I especially love it when "the blob" starts killing itself off through team kills as they try to finish off the remaining enemy 'mechs.

BasicInfantry, on 17 October 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

There are Zero Tactics involved... which ever team can form into the biggest blob and sticks together can win easily.... try flanking maneuvers or anything that deviates from the blob you will be chewed up and the blob will not help you!

We haven't had anything taken away from us.. there's Terra Therma, River City (day and night) and that Crimson Tide map of which name escapes me at the moment and now we have The Mining Collective where you can pick apart any blob that moves through between the buildings/landscape. It's almost impossible to seek a flanking/recon position without being spotted but the option is still there. It kind of blows how only certain variants of 'mechs can carry ECM but it just lowers the chance of everyone carrying it making the game a bit unbalanced.

BasicInfantry, on 17 October 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

I wish there was another way to play other than that but sadly there is no reason to.. In CBT we had more outside real estate to pull flanking maneuvers... that has been taken away.. now it's blob goes left or blob goes right... but that could just be the PUG games.. the life of a lone wolf is paved in lots of WTF is the team doing moments, lol...

[Nick Makiaveli]

BasicInfantry, on 18 October 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

I agree completely...

I really think a group of players should get together and start training school for tactics... heck everything you want to know.

Hands on experience and training would go a long way towards the new player experience... Anyone willing to start the [TRNG] Training Clan

A school that accepts all... teach all aspects of game then release back on their own when they are ready. Different courses... and free pudding for all!

Join a good unit. We have training times for each battalion (ie N. American, EU etc) and even split those into Basic Training and Competitive training. Sure plenty of other units have similar programs. Of course their teachers won't be as awesome as ours, but that goes without saying.