112 replies to this topic

[gregsolidus]

*palms face*

Edited by gregsolidus, 07 November 2011 - 04:16 PM.

[knight 6]

You're welcome greg.

[FaydeShift]

Fantastic question. I have nothing to really add to the topic, but I agree that it should be taken into consideration by the development team.

[Traejun DiSanctis]

Back in the day, my group and I used a "catastrophic damage" rule. Where a single location on the mech took 30/60/90 damage in a single round, there was a multiplier applied to all damage and inflicted as "catastrophic damage". This rewarded the attacker for lucky rolls and applied the "golden BB" rule to the victim.

If the game includes the ability to alpha a single location by simply setting convergence range, my rule would be a bad idea.

[Cake Bandit]

Mechwarrior 3 had a really great mechanic that mapped the weapons of your mech to the mouse cursor. It got really fun because you could just look to one side or the other and be limited to the guns mounted on those sides, if you really wanted to bring your firepower to bear you had to rotate your torso which took time and affected your steering abilities somewhat.

The problem, as has been noted all around the forums is that it's pinpoint accurate and too easy to deal very accurate, very specific damage. I think a workaround could be found in either slowing down the machinery to have to keep up with how fast people can aim, or add in accuracy modifiers based on running, walking, jumping, crouching, and all other manner of activity. I would like to retain the ability to get that pinpoint perfect shot though. Waiting in ambush until someone pops up and alpha-striking should definitely net you a healthy reward for your foresight and patience.

[Joachim Viltry]

Erhardt, on 01 November 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

A good question. I always wanted to see MULTIPLE crosshairs for the weapons...

THIS!

I always imagined (when reading the books) that the most sensible set up is one reticule for each arm mounted set of weapons, plus a fixed reticle for torso mounts. Of course barring the use of two joysticks to control the arms, and a set of pedals for left right... throttle mounted on joystick... torso twist control on stick... hmmm i'm not certain how it would be implemented without building up a full cockpit really. although it would make engaging multiple targets simultaneously possible.

[terminator]

I like the cone of fire idea posted. Its like modern fps games... It can be modified by movement, ingame skills and equipment... This will allow people to specialize their mech and their "avatar" skill to them

[UncleKulikov]

Cavadus, on 06 November 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

I don't agree at all. Why would torso weapons have a CoF? They are directly mounted into the super structure of the mech. They fire at one point and one point only. Any variation in their trajectory should be minute at best unless damaged.

Take the AC-20 on the Atlas AS7-D for instance. It's mounted on the right side of the torso. The way it's mounted can either be completely parallel to the torso so that it fires straight out and therefore will never align to a centered aiming reticle or it can be canted so that it is zeroed to hit dead center at it's maximum effective range.

But the cannon's pattern of fire isn't going have much deviation. All mechs are stabilized, that AC-20 is securely attached to the Atlas' super-structure, and at best the recoil could force the torso to twist to the right but only if we arbitrarily decide that the myomer and acuators meant to stabilize the torso aren't strong enough to fully compensate.

Edit: For direct fire weapons, I mean.

They would be ball-mounted. If not, torso weapons wouldn't be able to hit nothing, and the recoil from the shocks of movement would jar the weapon on top of the tolerances used to aim the weapon.

[Dozer]

Lot's of great ideas here. Huge amount of 'food for thought'

I liked the multiple crosshairs and cones of fire (expandable based on modifiers) ideas, as well as tracking lines needed for pathing (especially for ballistics) and damage spreads due to mount configurations (which can be tweaked but not removed entirely). It's already been stated that there will be a 'beginners' and 'advanced' setup for the game so having this option in two flavours will ensure that best possible gameplay access for noobs and leets alike while maintaining the core mechanics of the game and a balance with cpu processing power these days

One suggestion I would make is to ensure modifiable colour coding (cones/x-hairs) and weapon indicator information to ensure at a glance you know what it is your looking at. You should be allowed to group weapons across converging cones and even fixed torso/hip mounts etc should have cones, albeit smaller than other 180/270/360 degree rotating mounted weapons. These weapon groups would be linked to fire in the cone that is the smallest to reflect a linking firing mechanism of course.

Torso/hip turn speed should limit firing speed for larger fixed weapons i.e. AC20's etc to balance off the lighter mech versus heavy mech 'one shot' kill potential. Heatsink/cooldown rotation of weapons will indeed help mitigate the macro hacks which I agree kill the 'skill v skill' idea for this (and many other) games. Also helps the poor folks who do suffer from a significant lag, yes we still exists these days

Edited by Dozer, 07 November 2011 - 09:46 PM.

[Airwolf]

Ok, this may be a dumb question (I hope not) but here goes nothing ...
I've heard many people argue that the torso mounted weapons basically have 'fixed' trajectory aiming points...
I disagree ...
If we're talking anything close to the board game, then one has to remember that there were these things called firing arcs.  Doesn't this basically mean that all of these supposedly 'fixed' weapon mounts had some sort of limited (within the firing arc) capability to adjust point of aim? Controlled by the FCS computer that is. Wouldn't the choice of weapon(s) selected determine how long it takes for the FCS to 'focus' all aiming points to the targeting reticle? (e.g. torso only vs arm only or some combination of torso plus one or both arms) It's not like you (the pilot) is actually trying to aim each weapon per say, all you're really doing is telling the FCS where you want your weapons to hit and the FCS has to go figure everything out.
As for weapon convergence, pin-point is a definite no in my opinion.  If you're trying to stay somewhat true to the board game, then if you've hit your target, then you've hit your target 'somewhere' be it in the leg or in the arm, or torso, etc ... and each damage location should be determined separately for each weapon that hit.
Personally, I like a single targeting reticle with a circle around it to designate whether I've held it on target long enough to get a missle-lock (with tone of course)... After all, it *is* the FCS computer that's truly doing all the adjustments to the selected weapons.
Having said that, I wouldn't mind a 'aimed-shot (or snipe) mode' for a single direct-fire weapon only *AND* I would have to stay still (torso twist is ok, but no walking, running, jumping) and hold on target (HD, CT, RT, LT, LA, RA, LL, RL) for a long time (like twice or three times as long as it would take to confirm missile lock) and if I get hit hard enough to jar my aim off the intended specific location, or something breaks line of site, then oh well, all I get is a 'normal shot' which if it hits, hits in a random location.

[Taizan]

I'd be for an optimal convergence per weapon type using a cone spread. For example, lasers would have a much tighter cone than ballistic weapons. Similar to how its done in OFP or ARMA 2.

[tbl]

You didn't notice this thread was over a year old?

[Dragorath]

Problem still exists. Stalker with 6 PPC are really annoying. The damage is focused on more or less one point.
I am not saying strict to BT rules or so, but the cone mentioned just at the beginning of this topic would be perfect. It is so annoying when you get one-shot again and again. Maximum two shots in one are and all Mechs are gone. Look at these Stalker builds and the stats. A lot of people told me they get kill death ratios of 4 and higher, but only with these Mechs.

Beside, love the game :-)