73 replies to this topic

[phalanx]

Love it or hate it, Battlevalue has been a part of tabletop experience for a long time. Sunday, Herb announced at the Battlechat that he was "killing" BV. So a remnant of the "good 'ol days" will soon be gone. No word on what Herb plans for the replacement system, only that it will be replaced with SOMETHING.

Your Thoughts?

[Stormwolf]

Tonnage, the original BV system

[Ghost]

Good riddance. Some of the injustices perpetuated by the BV system will take years to finally straighten out, but the consequences of this change have far-reaching potential as far as 'mech loadouts go. The BV rating was what was holding back some of the more interesting techs. You'll see more C3 setups now that the BV tax is gone, that's for sure.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Long story short:
BV2 has become a lumbering beast which almost collapses under its own weight.
Maybe we'll see a BV3, or CV2 or whatever.
(CV, or Combat Value, was introduced in Tactical Handbook.)

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You'll see more C3 setups now that the BV tax is gone, that's for sure.

That, and the force multiplier which skewered it a bit as well.

Edited by Alizabeth Aijou, 21 November 2011 - 01:45 PM.

[Stormwolf]

I always disliked how BV treated the Hellbringer, it was way too high IMO.

[Zendric]

The Fire Moth D will now be useable!

[Rohan Pony]

I recall it was possible to reduce the BV on some designs just by adding a flamer, or am I mistaken? I don't play around with custom designs these days...

What's annoying is that Technical Readout 3058 Ugrade just came out with the BV2 values...and now the system is changing again. But if the values are readily accessible through the Master Unit List, that should be okay.

[CaveMan]

Hopefully the replacement system won't have quite so many digits. Preferably something a little more abstract. BV was better than CV, but not by much. Still too much of an emphasis on numbers. I've had players try to back out of a match because of an imbalance of 25 BV points.

I'd rather see something like a qualitative A, B, C and so forth with maybe AA and AAA for very high tech level stuff. Exact numbers don't mean much because the dice and player skill matter far more than 100 or 200 points of BV.

[GreyGriffin]

BV performed a really important role - it allowed strangers to set up games with a loose parameter. It also set some important guidelines for tournament play.

As flawed as it was, it'll be a pretty hair-raising ride without it.

[Kudzu]

Stormwolf, on 21 November 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

Tonnage, the original BV system

Oh, that brings back some memories. "Ok, we each have 250 tons: You get a Charger, A Rifleman, and two Shadowhawks, I get a Dire Wolf and two Timber Wolves."

[Dihm]

So does this mean they're putting out another edition of the rulebook?

I'm tempted to pick it up just because, but $50 is a little crazy.

[Amarus Cameron]

Dihm, on 22 November 2011 - 10:11 AM, said:

So does this mean they're putting out another edition of the rulebook?

I'm tempted to pick it up just because, but $50 is a little crazy.

Gotta make money somehow...and the question remains, what would their replacement be? As was pointed out...

Kudzu, on 22 November 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

Oh, that brings back some memories. "Ok, we each have 250 tons: You get a Charger, A Rifleman, and two Shadowhawks, I get a Dire Wolf and two Timber Wolves."

^this, does not work.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

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Oh, that brings back some memories. "Ok, we each have 250 tons: You get a Charger, A Rifleman, and two Shadowhawks, I get a Dire Wolf and two Timber Wolves."

You get a Dire Wolf and two Timber Wolves, I get 10 Fire Moth D's and a Nova Prime.

[Kudzu]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 22 November 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

You get a Dire Wolf and two Timber Wolves, I get 10 Fire Moth D's and a Nova Prime.

Ahhh, the ever famous "Can I one-shot enough Moths before they rip me to shreds" debate, although I prefer Moth H's.

[Gaius Cavadus]

Kudzu, on 22 November 2011 - 09:54 AM, said:

Oh, that brings back some memories. "Ok, we each have 250 tons: You get a Charger, A Rifleman, and two Shadowhawks, I get a Dire Wolf and two Timber Wolves."

That says a lot more about the imbalanced nature of clan tech than using tonnage as a balancing mechanic, doesn't it?

[Blacstonn]

I always looked at the BV as a guideline for knowing what you might come up against, I've always tried to mod my forces to overmatch anyway

[Kudzu]

Cavadus, on 22 November 2011 - 01:40 PM, said:

That says a lot more about the imbalanced nature of clan tech than using tonnage as a balancing mechanic, doesn't it?

Not really. It says that all tonnages were not created equal and that a pure tonnage balancing system fails to take anything other than weight into account, such as tech level, pilot skills, and design flaws.

Would you prefer "Ok, we each have 250 tons: You get a Charger-1A1, A Rifleman-3N, and two Shadowhawk-2H's all with 4/5 pilots-- I get an Awesome-9M, an Ostsol-6D(TSM punchy goodness!), and a pair of Wolverine-7K's all with 2/2 pilots." ?

[Alizabeth Aijou]

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Would you prefer "Ok, we each have 250 tons: You get a Charger-1A1, A Rifleman-3N, and two Shadowhawk-2H's all with 4/5 pilots-- I get an Awesome-9M, an Ostsol-6D(TSM punchy goodness!), and a pair of Wolverine-7K's all with 2/2 pilots." ?

Eh, I know far better combos for giving to your opponent:
6× OTT-7K Ostscout, 2× LCT-1M Locust.
Enjoy being helpless while I blast you to bits.

I'll even try to make it more fair by using only IndustrialMechs.

[Kudzu]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 22 November 2011 - 03:11 PM, said:

Eh, I know far better combos for giving to your opponent:
6× OTT-7K Ostscout, 2× LCT-1M Locust.
Enjoy being helpless while I blast you to bits.

I'll even try to make it more fair by using only IndustrialMechs.

Well, in the second example I was going with each lance having one 80 tonner, one 60 tonner, and two 55 tonners.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Hm... right. Time to find the worst for those tonnages, then.
Although it is hard to beat an JM6-S.

Edited by Alizabeth Aijou, 22 November 2011 - 03:47 PM.