46 replies to this topic

[Sarlic]

Karl Streiger, on 21 October 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

to post a new topic about a new feature that is hardly 12 hours alive have some similarities to those:


Everybody want to have a piece of cake - to be the one that start the new topic that will get the attention of the staff - they simple have to because your voice has power.

Of course its the same behaviour you see in almost every MWO game:
OH a enemy mech with blood read center torso - without weapons.

the other 11 team members are only in your way - or noobish kill stealer's -


TLDR
Be a team player - reward should be the same - maybe some slight reward drop for Assault Mechs
Be s solo rambo no matter the mech ... you can still open another topic - its Free 2 Play

These whiners on the forums are amazing. Before the arrival of the patch we had some whiners, now just fresh implented just over 12 hours we have another bunch of whiners.

When does it ends? Sure, it could be tweaked a little. But that's it.

[kapusta11]

I think Assist should give the same amount of C-Bills as before with one condition - assisted damage should be greater than 50. Other than that new reward system is amazing.

Edited by kapusta11, 22 October 2014 - 04:34 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lily from animove, on 22 October 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

It's not about beign the one starting the topic, what level is this thinking 4chan?

It's about adressing something. tbh PGI should stick such threads temporarly, because within all the discussions about new mechs and stuff these topics slip off the first page quite fast.

type in "Reward" in the search function. NONE of the new threads get shown even, you get some threads totally irrelevant to the latest topic titles. :/

When there are 6-12 on the front page of GenDis at any given moment....why need search feature?

[BattleBunny]

for me it seemed allright, my timby prime (I) still brought home the bacon yesterday.

But a teammate of mine piloting his griffin was not making much at all. he is a great teamplayer, gets lots of assists and is my eyes and ears very often (he has good awareness , I do not).
He made about 75k cbills per match...

makes me wish I could share my cbills income per match with him.

[Lily from animove]

BattleBunny, on 22 October 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

for me it seemed allright, my timby prime (I) still brought home the bacon yesterday.

But a teammate of mine piloting his griffin was not making much at all. he is a great teamplayer, gets lots of assists and is my eyes and ears very often (he has good awareness , I do not).
He made about 75k cbills per match...

makes me wish I could share my cbills income per match with him.

Thats the main issue with the current system, its not rewarding effort its rewarding having mostly lukc or using just the right mech rakcing up kills. going selfish for a single kill can grant you more than helping to core 4 mechs letting others kill them. Hows that supposed to be tactic and teamkill?

We now have to gather examples who show how invalid effort and outcome is to provide the necessary feedback to tweak those rewards to the right degree,

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 22 October 2014 - 05:03 AM, said:

Thats the main issue with the current system, its not rewarding effort its rewarding having mostly lukc or using just the right mech rakcing up kills. going selfish for a single kill can grant you more than helping to core 4 mechs letting others kill them. Hows that supposed to be tactic and teamkill?

We now have to gather examples who show how invalid effort and outcome is to provide the necessary feedback to tweak those rewards to the right degree,

So it seems that there is already a system that capture informations about the amount of damage dealt to a target.

If the reward of assisting is direct bind to the damage dealt to that target - with increased income at higher rates?
On the downside - painting targets will be rewarded even less:

for example:
assist: <10% damage 500 Cbills
assist <20% damage 1500
assist <30% damage 2700
assist <40% damage 4500
assist <50% damage 6000

[occusoj]

Quote

- think about how you can adapt your play style to get all those fancy new rewards?

Seems like a good idea, lets look at the DDC and how I can adapt my playstyle to benefit from the boni.

1) Scouting:
Lock target first without engaging. Not likely to happen much in a turret that moves 53kph and poses a priority target for the enemy.

2) Flanking:
Deal damage from behind an enemy without getting engaged or targeted. Not that much I can do here. Got the reward a few times but moving behind an enemy thats usually much more mobile than I am while providing ECM for others, sticking with the team and without getting engaged is not exactly easy in a DDC. Possible, yes entirely. But is that really a DDCs role?

3) Kill most damage:
Thats a good reward for an atlas. Wreck someone and get cash for it. Its already what I do and the payout is poor.
It only gets a bit difficult when someone on your team sprays the target with loads of spread out dmg. It doesnt need that much damage to go through a CT or ST( on XL builds), someone pouring lasers all over or spamming missiles easily gets more dmg on the target but isnt really effective in killing it.
Though its a good award for the AS7.

4) Killing blow:
Another good one. Though 7 kills in a game yielded a very low sum of cbills so its not really that big of a deal.
But its one I can go after well.

5) Solo kill:
To quote the description: Solo Kill: Achieve both "Kill Most Damage" and "Solo Kill" for the same target.
Doesnt even make sense. To achieve a solo kill I need to achieve a solo kill. ggclose.

6) Capture:
DDC is too slow to go for mainly for caps. Assisting one and covering the capping teammates with ECM when near, of course. Running for a cap JUST to cap while faster mechs are already on it, no way.

7) Brawler:
Needs a solo kill below 450m which Im not sure on how to get.
Assuming a solo kill is most dmg plus killing blow, it could be obtained with a DDC. I regulary get 5+ kill games with about 1k dmg. Dont get it a lot though.

8) Lance formation:
Staying within 140m of each other is a great idea to get strikes put on your lance. Piled up assaults are a magnet for that red smoke. Not actively going to bunch up for 60cbs. And thanks to the way MM assembles lances I only have the option to bunch up with assaults. Sticking with two mediums and a light, acting as a multifunctional unit that covers multiple roles, isnt rewarded.

9) Protected light:
Well, I carry a light mechs weight in weapons. Sadly that doesnt make me egligeable for the award.

10) Protected medium:
Not gonna happen in the 100 ton turret.

11) Protected proximity:
That one works, though the 55cbs earned by it wont make me rich and Im not going to eventually worse positions just to cash in on that award risking to get focused/shot/killed/exploded/....
Nice when it happens.

12) TAG damage:
Am I supposed to carry a TAG with every build? Sure I could spare the ton somewhere but having to keep TAG on target means I cant torso twist anymore. Which, depending on what your facing, ranges from not-that-bad to straight suicidal.
Actually I could go after this. Building a TAG/NARC/LRM DDC could very well yield more cbs than going for a straight up fight.

13) TAG kill
Same as above.

14) Hit and run:
Engaging someone and receiving less than 15 damage in a big stick with the magic jesus box in it rarely happens. Plus it becomes pointless when I soak damage to protect the more fragile mechs in my team.
Dont even know how to go after that one. I already stick with my team, cover them with ecm and walk on the front of pushes - thats what I think is a DDCs role. Get your team into the fight, protect them from rain and take out as much guys from the red team as possible. The frontline is where damage is flung all around, staying below 15 in an engagement is not gonna happen. Atlas is made to take some.
And carrying AC20+ECM is a good reason for an enemy to deliver it.

15) First capture:
53 kph. Nope.

16) Stealth TAG:
6 seconds of TAG on a target that doesnt look at me. Unlikely to happen and not what a DDCs main role is.

Please tell me how I can adapt my playstyle besides going for a LRM/NARC/TAG build which IMHO is a waste of a DDC.
I get poor rewards for sticking with my team, covering them, leading pushes, taking damage and wrecking a whole lot of enemies.
Looks like its back to the dual gauss K2 for now.

Edited by occusoj, 22 October 2014 - 05:18 AM.

[The Boz]

You go LRM assault lance. Flanking hit-n-run most damage potential kills while staying in formation and covering the medium/light LRM boats next to you. Acceptable rewards.

[Karl Streiger]

occusoj, on 22 October 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

Please tell me how I can adapt my playstyle besides going for a LRM/NARC/TAG build which IMHO is a waste of a DDC.
I get poor rewards for sticking with my team, covering them, leading pushes, taking damage and wrecking a whole lot of enemies.

Looks like its back to the dual gauss K2 for now.

see: you have adapt your playstyle - take another Mech.
No serious - of course there are currently Mechs that are not able to get the ammount of cbills they earned before - i'm sure that i won't get the rewards I'm used to when running Warhawk, Banshee, Atlas or BattleMaster - but its a process.

We can't expect that the system goes on line and work perfectly. But to remove it again is simple the wrong answer. I'm sure that there will be other rewards and roll rewards in the future.

Oh and BTW:

Tulamar, on 22 October 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

Sag das doch

Flanking in a Dire Whale + pugging - so it is possible

Edited by Karl Streiger, 22 October 2014 - 05:48 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

occusoj, on 22 October 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

Please tell me how I can adapt my playstyle besides going for a LRM/NARC/TAG build which IMHO is a waste of a DDC.
I get poor rewards for sticking with my team, covering them, leading pushes, taking damage and wrecking a whole lot of enemies.
Looks like its back to the dual gauss K2 for now.

How about this? And this Worked well as well. And though not a D-DC THIS wrecked stuff last night!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 October 2014 - 06:00 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 22 October 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

see: you have adapt your playstyle - take another Mech.
No serious - of course there are currently Mechs that are not able to get the ammount of cbills they earned before - i'm sure that i won't get the rewards I'm used to when running Warhawk, Banshee, Atlas or BattleMaster - but its a process.

We can't expect that the system goes on line and work perfectly. But to remove it again is simple the wrong answer. I'm sure that there will be other rewards and roll rewards in the future.

Oh and BTW:

Flanking in a Dire Whale + pugging - so it is possible

not that impressive tbh. as we had double XP weekend I scored this one

http://i.imgur.com/a6N5tbX.jpg

quite a lot less kills and a lot less dmg, yet only 50k more for the screen you posted.

[occusoj]

Quote

see: you have adapt your playstyle - take another Mech.

And dont get involved in "teamplay" any more. Doesnt pay off. Just snipe to cash in on flanking plus hit and run rewards. Pack a TAG for bonus points.
More gauss, some lurm spam and more grind, exactly what the game needed.

Quote

We can't expect that the system goes on line and work perfectly.

But can we at least expect it to not encourage sniping and bad tactics like mindlessly bunching up?

Quote

You go LRM assault lance.

Doesnt really work. Used a LRM boat assault, stayed with team, used TAG. 6 kills 1200+dmg and a pathetic 250k or so.

Quote

How about [color="#0f72da"]this[/color]?

This, minus case plus SRM4, is my DDC build. 2xLL,2SRM6,SRM4,AC20. It gets damage and kills just fine but little cbills. As mentioned in another thread, I killed 7 guys with close to 1k damage in a match and got about 230k.

[Bigbacon]

Dorion, on 22 October 2014 - 03:17 AM, said:

As mainly a light player the drop in assists really hurts because kills don't come that often for me. The other new rewards don't seem to be enough to make up for it. Although, I sincerely love pgi's efforts to balance the game.

this may balance out once they have the class rewards. didn't they talk about doing that so that lights get extra for things that others don't etc?

[Bigbacon]

occusoj, on 22 October 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

And dont get involved in "teamplay" any more. Doesnt pay off. Just snipe to cash in on flanking plus hit and run rewards. Pack a TAG for bonus points.
More gauss, some lurm spam and more grind, exactly what the game needed.


But can we at least expect it to not encourage sniping and bad tactics like mindlessly bunching up?


Doesnt really work. Used a LRM boat assault, stayed with team, used TAG. 6 kills 1200+dmg and a pathetic 250k or so.


This, minus case plus SRM4, is my DDC build. 2xLL,2SRM6,SRM4,AC20. It gets damage and kills just fine but little cbills. As mentioned in another thread, I killed 7 guys with close to 1k damage in a match and got about 230k.

I am happy as hell with 250k rounds either before the patch and now.

I wonder what the average number of rounds most players need to get 1 million c-bills either with premium time or with out it. For me I'd say 7 rounds with premium time.

[Yukichi Fukuzawa]

I just hope PGI resists the bitching this time. I barely got to use the new MM system last patch because the unemployed people bitched so loudly it disappeared in 24 hours. I agree with sidestrafe saying that PGI should not always listen to these forums.

PGI, let this at least go a weekend before you eject everything; many of your best customers have wonderful things called jobs. WE need to work and cannot play and test ALL DAY.

Thanks.

[Joseph Mallan]

occusoj, on 22 October 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

And dont get involved in "teamplay" any more. Doesnt pay off. Just snipe to cash in on flanking plus hit and run rewards. Pack a TAG for bonus points.
More gauss, some lurm spam and more grind, exactly what the game needed.


But can we at least expect it to not encourage sniping and bad tactics like mindlessly bunching up?


Doesnt really work. Used a LRM boat assault, stayed with team, used TAG. 6 kills 1200+dmg and a pathetic 250k or so.


This, minus case plus SRM4, is my DDC build. 2xLL,2SRM6,SRM4,AC20. It gets damage and kills just fine but little cbills. As mentioned in another thread, I killed 7 guys with close to 1k damage in a match and got about 230k.

First world complaint if I ever read one! 250K for at most 15 minutes of play is not good! Wish I could have your problems.

[CSHubert]

3 runs (and losses) in the Atlas S sums up to 210 XP ! Im not saying Im good or even decent with an Atlas, but c'mon ! This reward system really needs tweeking !

[Joe Mallad]

I don't see much of a problem with the new system. I'm sorry but in the old system, why should a losing player be rewarded 150k plus when the winning player might get 175k to 200k?

I don't think the losing side should get nothing but I do think the kill assist bonus (before) was a bit too high. The losing team should not be rewarded as highly as they were IMO. Sure, we don't like to lose. But iv seen some games were people were not even trying to play in a friendly manor or help out their teams and still got rewarded nicely, for a lose lol. Stop QQing because you were spoiled and liked making money to lose. Play to win and if you lose, stop QQing and play smarter to win next time.

[BARBAR0SSA]

I got 300k cbills (with premium) in a light, works for me.

I want to see how high it will reward, I've had 7 kill 5 assist matches that didn't seem to pay me all that much prior.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Rewards are bad now, really bad at least in the PUG que. I mean I had a 2 kill, 5 assist 600 damage game in the new Atlas with its 30% bonus and didn't break 180k w/premium. I mean I consider that performance above average for me and that would have at least netted me 225-250k before the reward changes.

This isn't near enough and after all the positive changes in the game lately, this is a huge let down especially since Russ is back preaching that he things we are getting too many C-bills again.

I mean honestly I am spending a ton of money on the game right now. $110 for two Ala Carte mechs in Wave 1, $120 for the entire set in Wave 2, plus running premium and it is already exhausting trying to keep up with my C-bill needs. I mean I figured it up and just to buy 3 Warhawks, 3 Mad Dogs, another Atlas and 2 more Centurions and 2 more King Crabs to go along with my gifts so I can master them, plus outfit all those mech and the ones I have pre-ordered, I am looking at needing 150 million C-bills all in a 12 week period. Also this doesn't include the additional 24-30 million I need at minimum I need to buy just one copy off the weapon modules I need to complete my various mech builds and even then I would have to keep swapping them around which is beyond annoying.

Point is, here you have someone who is using premium, running almost exclusively mechs with a 30% bonus attached and buying tons of pre-orders to bypass a significant part of the grind for these mechs and I STILL feel very pinched and pressured by the grind. I mean just thinking about how I will need almost 200 million C-bills available in that short of time makes me not want to play because the game should be fun, not feel like a job where I have to spend X amount of hours a day on it in order to pay the bills.

Also, If I am feeling pinched by the grind after doing all that, I can't imagine how people either just investing in premium or worse, trying to play this game free are playing at all. I know if I was in that circumstance financially, I probably would be long gone from this game.