38 replies to this topic

[Glythe]

You're essentially asking for a buff when the fixed JJ change was a move to nerf clan tech.

Metus regem, on 25 October 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

We're not asking for buffs....

As for the guns, you're right, all clan mechs enjoy a 20% weight advantage on average on all equipment, that advantage does come at a cost in MWO, in the form of extra heat, a lot of extra heat, locked equipment, and the bulk of the weapons are arm mounted. That means that with a little skill you can quickly remove the bulk of the firepower of a clan mech.

So in short stop whining about clan mechs, they are pale shadows of the table top versions.

But it's more than a 25% weight advantage (check your math on the TW). You can't survive losing a side torso with an IS XL engine. Clan tech uses fewer crit spaces and equipment weighs less. The medium clan laser is almost as good as an IS Large laser. Look at the difference between clan SRMs and IS SRMs. Clan mechs can more readily skip ghost heat rules too because they can pick weapon hardpoints and skirt the limits. Or they can just ignore them and boat better than IS mechs.

So basically you have better range, heat and engines than IS mechs. IS mechs have nothing "wow" on their side. You are right that clan mechs aren't as good as TT variants but they are (with the exception of lights) all better than their IS counterparts at every weight class. As it stands right now we should be getting at least 300 tons to fight against every 240 tons of clan mechs.

The quriks are total BS too because nothing is going to make up for the tonnage difference.

Edited by Glythe, 25 October 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[SoHxPaladin]

are there variants of the maddog with ballistic side torso or energy side torsos? cuz i am all for that! or provide another DWF omnipod that gives it more LRMS for new players and lazy folks to put more LRM spam on it, just so i can laugh while tearing it apart. or, HEY, Adder omnipods that ADD JJ to make it worth even lookin at?

i know lore dictates available omnipods for a mech, just making a point on the adder and dwf...

[SoHxPaladin]

Glythe, on 25 October 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

You're essentially asking for a buff when the fixed JJ change was a move to nerf clan tech.


But it's more than a 25% weight advantage (check your math on the TW). You can't survive losing a side torso with an IS XL engine. Clan tech uses fewer crit spaces and equipment weighs less. The medium clan laser is almost as good as an IS Large laser. Look at the difference between clan SRMs and IS SRMs. Clan mechs can more readily skip ghost heat rules too because they can pick weapon hardpoints and skirt the limits. Or they can just ignore them and boat better than IS mechs.

So basically you have better range, heat and engines than IS mechs. IS mechs have nothing "wow" on their side. You are right that clan mechs aren't as good as TT variants but they are (with the exception of lights) all better than their IS counterparts at every weight class. As it stands right now we should be getting at least 300 tons to fight against every 240 tons of clan mechs.

The quriks are total BS too because nothing is going to make up for the tonnage difference.

so you are crying because clan tech has advantages, and are praising PGI for "balancing" a mech through restrictions instead of buffing the other bufs with quirks or hell, even buffing IS weapons (as a last resort) instead of hampering customization of mechs, as they already have? you sir are rediculous, stop trying to change people's opinions when you have little to offer them.

[Andi Nagasia]

Glythe, on 25 October 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

You're essentially asking for a buff when the fixed JJ change was a move to nerf clan tech.

so the Added Mobility of Jump-Jets are a Nerf?
can i get a Nova extra 5tons Nerf?

please note that Fixed JJ to KFX/TBR was because of NVA/SMN JJ discussions,
and people feeling having the Fixed on some mechs and not on others was unfair,

i know i was one of the people who made the General Discussion Topics about it,
i was calling for Fixed JJ restrictions be removed, as to gain extra Tons for the NVA/SMN,
what PGI did was lock JJ for all Omni-Mechs, they did what they felt was the right thing to do,
personally i didnt see it going that way, and i am sorry for builds destroyed by my actions,
which is why i Created this Topic on the TBR-D, to try to make up for what been apart of,

Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 25 October 2014 - 11:00 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Greenjulius, on 22 October 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

This is one of the more fair things that can be done to balance the Timber Wolf. It should be easy for PGI to either make these side torsos purchasable, or make the whole new variant. The fewer exploitable jump jet animation mechs out there, the better.

So to make the TWolf a more powerful missile platform again...despite still being wildly OP...is a fair way to balance it?

​Interesting.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 October 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

So to make the TWolf a more powerful missile platform again...despite still being wildly OP...is a fair way to balance it?
​Interesting.

I generally agree with Bishop on a lot of thing, this one how ever is not one of them.

The Timber Wolf has always been an outrider to most other mechs, due to where it sits on the peak of the offensive/defensive/speed trinity for battle mechs. Even in clan mechs the Timber Wolf is an anomaly in the line up.

But doesn't change the fact that we should have gotten the D package before we got the S package, if for only the reason of time line.

That being said the D torsos would be just 2m, ratgern than the 2m 1b (1e rt) that we have now, so less hard points, and would reduce the amount of laser vomit Timber Wolves.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 25 October 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

I generally agree with Bishop on a lot of thing, this one how ever is not one of them.

The Timber Wolf has always been an outrider to most other mechs, due to where it sits on the peak of the offensive/defensive/speed trinity for battle mechs. Even in clan mechs the Timber Wolf is an anomaly in the line up.

But doesn't change the fact that we should have gotten the D package before we got the S package, if for only the reason of time line.

That being said the D torsos would be just 2m, ratgern than the 2m 1b (1e rt) that we have now, so less hard points, and would reduce the amount of laser vomit Timber Wolves.

Lore outlier my friend, means squat in FPS balance.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 October 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Lore outlier my friend, means squat in FPS balance.

This true, it is also a pale shadow of the table top version.

If we had proper engine hits, 3 and your done, for those of you that don't understand why IS XL dies on ST loss, with the correct repercussions for each engine hit, movement reductions as well as extra heat generations that would go a long way towards balance I would think.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but that is what I think. And I do agree with Bishop in another tread, that a slight mobility Nerf, to turning speed and twist speed are needed on the Timber Wolf.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 25 October 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

This true, it is also a pale shadow of the table top version.

If we had proper engine hits, 3 and your done, for those of you that don't understand why IS XL dies on ST loss, with the correct repercussions for each engine hit, movement reductions as well as extra heat generations that would go a long way towards balance I would think.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but that is what I think. And I do agree with Bishop in another tread, that a slight mobility Nerf, to turning speed and twist speed are needed on the Timber Wolf.

And then, only then would I consider adding the D torsos.

[Aratan Aenor]

I don't see the point of adding the Timber Wolf's D variant when there are no rear firing weapons in MWO. Since a TBR-D only has 2 forward firing SSRMs you can make one with a TBR-C chassis and a TBR-Prime right arm, like so:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bb48f2b7c503821

This has the same forward arc firepower as the canon TBR-D, but better cooling and an active probe.

And if you want a TBR missile boat, try this one:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4294ad7e77b6ab2

It's like a Stalker 5M with JJ.

Edited by Aratan Aenor, 25 October 2014 - 01:41 PM.

[Metus regem]

Aratan Aenor, on 25 October 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

I don't see the point of adding the Timber Wolf's D variant when there are no rear firing weapons in MWO. Since a TBR-D only has 2 forward firing SSRMs you can make one with a TBR-C chassis and a TBR-Prime right arm, like so:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bb48f2b7c503821

This has the same forward arc firepower as the canon TBR-D, but better cooling and an active probe.

And if you want a TBR missile boat, try this one:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4294ad7e77b6ab2

It's like a Stalker 5M with JJ.

Like all other rear facing weapons they would be moved to forward facing...

But I would down grade the cSSRm 6's to cSRM 6's to squeeze in a TC Mk 4 again

[Golden Vulf]

The problem is, why buy a TBR-D when you can just buy the omnipods for 750,000 c-bills?

[Escef]

Andi Nagasia, on 25 October 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

so the Added Mobility of Jump-Jets are a Nerf?
can i get a Nova extra 5tons Nerf?

Jets for mechs under 60 tons are 0.5 tons each, it would only be 2.5 tons. Granted, space is so tight on the Nova that it probably would make a difference.

[Andi Nagasia]

wants more Omni's, PLEASE PGI MORE OMNI's,
(yes its true but the D also has CT 1E, just like the C,... which we already have,...shutting up now)

[Nostram]

I would even be happy with TBR-D sides with the SSRMS locked into it. That solves the problem for people wanting a D config. It solves the problem for people complaining about the potential for it being used as LRM spam. Think that would make most people happy. *shrugs*

[Herr Vorragend]

I'd like to have my 1e 1b sidetoro back without those JJs

[White Bear 84]

Andi Nagasia, on 22 October 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

no just kidding,
see what i did there,

*Puts rifle away slowly*

*glances over with an icy glare..*

*expression eases...*

and..

[Werewolf]

One of the big problems which makes MWO somewhat incomparable to TT/RPG at this point is that in TT/RPG, if you're following a GM-administered campaign / pilot's career, you simply can't switch weapons and go for meta builds unless you've RPGed for "Custom Vehicle" traits, whereas in MWO everyone can do it anytime.

Leads me to the conclusion that restricting variants because of so-called balancing reasons is surely the wrong way, because it basically erodes insta-customization that differentiates MWO from TT/RPG. At least for those players that went and bought such 'Mechs. All you can achieve by constantly nerfing single variants, e.g. TBR-S, is to alienate players (like me, I must admit), that come from TT/RPG (and possibly like me don't/didn't play FPS games) and feel a little bereft of the look-and-feel of the BT universe as it is represented in MWO.

Surely, for balancing reasons something has to be done, but contantly blaming it on (according to lore) far advanced Clan 'Mechs can't be the only solution. Which is why I, for a long time now, have promoted the notion of having non-mixed drops and numerical superiority for the Inner Sphere, pretty much what was, apart from acumen and prudence, the single greatest advantage the IS has compared to Clans (again, by lore).

[Andi Nagasia]

D Pods would help alot, even so with this LRM Nerf/De-Buff