122 replies to this topic

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Kjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Not to mention... coordination with anyone outside of TS? You shouldn't post drunk/stoned.

Well, yeah, trying to coordinate pretty much anything in the solo queue is a lost cause.

But there's a reason so many mechs carry LRMs stock. I feel like players are unnecessarily handicapping themselves by building just to brawl or just to be LRM boats and so on.

[Kjudoon]

I see where you're coming from, but even in the group queue... no TS, no coordination. The biggest team does what it's going to do and prays the rest of us doesn't screw it up or allows us the privilege of tagging along.

[NoBodie]

Just put AMS on your mech! That's what AMS is for. 1 AMS will stop 1 LRM 5 totally!

[Alexander MacTaggart]

NoBodie, on 27 October 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

Just put AMS on your mech! That's what AMS is for. 1 AMS will stop 1 LRM 5 totally!

... Until you go through your ammo. And as long as only one LRM5 is targeting you.

AMS is great, don't get me wrong. But it's a stopgap measure. It won't save you from heavy pounding, but it will save you a little armor in the first half of the match from random LRM spam.

If you get caught out in the open by multiple LRM-heavy mechs you are still dead or crippled.

[Kjudoon]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

... Until you go through your ammo. And as long as only one LRM5 is targeting you.

AMS is great, don't get me wrong. But it's a stopgap measure. It won't save you from heavy pounding, but it will save you a little armor in the first half of the match from random LRM spam.

If you get caught out in the open by multiple LRM-heavy mechs you are still dead or crippled.

Can I have the AMS equivalent to Medium Lasers and AC5s please?

Note the unfairness.

[-VooDoo-]

Not being a smart ass here, but I tend to notice that the people not having a problem with them don't really deal with them.

1. I have a well established team and nobody uses them in advanced play...so of course we could care less.

2. I run lights and LRM's basically can't hit me.

3. I run LRM boats and I think they are nifty sauce.


Well I run lights too and yes there is no issues at all in that scenario. I have only been playing for a few months so no I don't have an advanced team to play with. However, that doesn't necessarily take away from game knowledge or insight into mechanics. Like most people here I'm sure, I am a long time gamer and pick things up rather quickly and honestly this game simply isn't that dynamic and very easy to understand and to grasp effective game play. So the L2P stuff should remain on the sidelines.

As I have stated before, I am not looking to change LRM play or ask for the nerf hammer start swinging. I don't believe that is necessarily the answer. Something else in the dynamic needs to change I suppose is my point. Defensive measures and the like perhaps broadened. I think having an additional mech with ECM that is on the heavy+ side will likely help quite a bit like the one coming out, I guess we will see.

So advanced play aside and gratz to those lucky enough to have that kind of fun game play, the PUG world suffers from an advanced case of LRM fever though. And it's that fever that sparks the irritation. Half the team always seems to sport 30/40 tubes each and they can squash anything larger than a light (that can't escape) in seconds when grouped together. And yes I don't help myself much...I own many mechs but lean towards by ballistic dire whale to play and that thing doesn't do ninja rolls very well. Guess I'm just not on Proton's level yet with the thing, perhaps one day. : )

[Mothykins]

• Drive Stalker on river city
  
• get targeted crossing the bridge to upper city
  
• AMS, IT DOES NOTHING
  
• die in less than 100m because at least half the opposing team is running LRM spam

When things align for the opposing team, LRMS suuuuck. But, usually, you don't really encounter this. So, yeah, dunno.

[Astrocanis]

Jazz Hands, on 27 October 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

Not being a smart ass here, but I tend to notice that the people not having a problem with them don't really deal with them.

1. I have a well established team and nobody uses them in advanced play...so of course we could care less.

2. I run lights and LRM's basically can't hit me.

3. I run LRM boats and I think they are nifty sauce.


Well I run lights too and yes there is no issues at all in that scenario. I have only been playing for a few months so no I don't have an advanced team to play with. However, that doesn't necessarily take away from game knowledge or insight into mechanics. Like most people here I'm sure, I am a long time gamer and pick things up rather quickly and honestly this game simply isn't that dynamic and very easy to understand and to grasp effective game play. So the L2P stuff should remain on the sidelines.

As I have stated before, I am not looking to change LRM play or ask for the nerf hammer start swinging. I don't believe that is necessarily the answer. Something else in the dynamic needs to change I suppose is my point. Defensive measures and the like perhaps broadened. I think having an additional mech with ECM that is on the heavy+ side will likely help quite a bit like the one coming out, I guess we will see.

So advanced play aside and gratz to those lucky enough to have that kind of fun game play, the PUG world suffers from an advanced case of LRM fever though. And it's that fever that sparks the irritation. Half the team always seems to sport 30/40 tubes each and they can squash anything larger than a light (that can't escape) in seconds when grouped together. And yes I don't help myself much...I own many mechs but lean towards by ballistic dire whale to play and that thing doesn't do ninja rolls very well. Guess I'm just not on Proton's level yet with the thing, perhaps one day. : )

I play a lot of mechs. I rarely have trouble with LRMs. I know others do, because I occasionally get a kill with them, so they must. Most of my kills come from lasers.

I don't run in an organized group.
I play both LRM and non-LRM mechs about the same (currently leveling my WubBolt - no missiles at all).
I suck in lights and rarely pilot them - apparently I'm skilled, but not skilled enough =P

My observation is that most players that have real problems with LRMs think running out on a large flat area should somehow shield them from LRMs. I do think it's a bit nuts that Clan LRMs have no minimum range. From that perspective I should be able to shoot them down close to the mech shooting them and they should take damage from the proximity of their LRMs. My biggest issue with them is not that they do damage at 5 meters, but that they shake my cockpit so much. But I can live with that.

My father, rest his recently departed soul, used to torment me in racquetball. He would always force me to return his serve on my high backhand side in the corner. Frustrated the crap out of me. Until I learned how to return it. And then return it so well that he stopped doing it. LRMs are the same.

LRMs, in my opinion, are fine. Some players can't deal with them. Yet. And some never will. They will complain how unfair they are here instead.

[Livewyr]

Radar Deprivation. Best 6million cbills in this game. (If you pass out of LoS.. they lose lock.)

Very useful when with friends.. pass behind a friendly mech and they lose lock. (reduced effectiveness if they are using Adv. Target Decay.)

[Pygar]

Jazz Hands, on 24 October 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

For months I have played with an open mind trying not to get irritated over stupid stuff...which every game has. This LRM non-sense is out of [redacted] control though and I can barely stand to play anymore. It's part of the game and I know it will never change...so why complain I suppose.

I just can't help seeing all this boats every game and picturing them coloring in their Dora the explorer coloring books before the match starts. I just can't see how it's fun and/or entertaining on any level with such monotonous game play as an LRM boat.

I know nobody cares, just venting on this topic...

Oh, people care....it's just that people have wildly different perceptions of LRMs depending on play style or ELO level.

My only problem with LRMs lately seems to be trying to fly a scout with enhanced NARC, but there are constantly no LRM boats on my team. (Or at least not ones that know to look for NARC) Before last weeks "payout system" tweaks, it was still worthwhile to pack TAG and NARC despite the lack of missiles because the two systems can be used for ECM busting/information warfare. After last weeks changes, it is now actually more common to see TAG and NARC than it is to see LRM boats.

[StalaggtIKE]

Mystere, on 25 October 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

People are not "working your way up" to Assault Mechs. Lights are what people should work their way up to.

Heavily-armed mobile turrets are the very definition of easy mode.

I meant work your way up as in tonnage. The plan is to develop the skill of positioning.

[Praehotec8]

Jazz Hands, on 27 October 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

Not being a smart ass here, but I tend to notice that the people not having a problem with them don't really deal with them.

1. I have a well established team and nobody uses them in advanced play...so of course we could care less.

2. I run lights and LRM's basically can't hit me.

3. I run LRM boats and I think they are nifty sauce.

As I have stated before, I am not looking to change LRM play or ask for the nerf hammer start swinging. I don't believe that is necessarily the answer. Something else in the dynamic needs to change I suppose is my point. Defensive measures and the like perhaps broadened. I think having an additional mech with ECM that is on the heavy+ side will likely help quite a bit like the one coming out, I guess we will see.

So advanced play aside and gratz to those lucky enough to have that kind of fun game play, the PUG world suffers from an advanced case of LRM fever though. And it's that fever that sparks the irritation. Half the team always seems to sport 30/40 tubes each and they can squash anything larger than a light (that can't escape) in seconds when grouped together. And yes I don't help myself much...I own many mechs but lean towards by ballistic dire whale to play and that thing doesn't do ninja rolls very well. Guess I'm just not on Proton's level yet with the thing, perhaps one day. : )

Yes, there are plenty of LRMs in PUG play. This is understandable, as some players just enjoy using them, which is fine. That said, they are not terribly effective, particularly when used as indirect fire. My hit % for LRMs hovers around 30%. I find that they are best used on a second line mech as a direct fire from 180-400m, when combined with additional weapons. However, even then, they are just less efficient than most other weapons.

I think one could argue that they are (as others stated) best against the disorganized and unaware opponents, as heir indirect fire can be used more effectively, and they will more reliably hit less experienced players at long range (as said players are less likely to evade/use cover/carry AMS). If anything, I would be willing to see adjustments further limiting indirect fire, with significant buffs to damage/concentration for direct fire (Anyone remember the artemis spiral pattern? So beautiful, I miss it and wish it would return).

Basically though, the bottom line is that missiles DO need to be dangerous, just as dangerous as any other viable weapon system, and they SHOULD be feared. As is, I will repeat myself, how often do you really die to LRM fire? Sure you can be damaged significantly, but if you are regularly dying from LRM spam at long range, you are doing something wrong.

I say this both as a player who enjoys LRM use, and someone who enjoys specialized short range brawlers. The dire wolf is one of my absolute favorite brawling mechs, and even with its slow speed and large body, LRM fire is manageable when played appropriately. Bring AMS if needed, and always pay attention to where you are going, and who and what is around you. Be prepared to find cover if needed. Never stand out in the open unless you have a quick way out or good supporting mechs. Don't expect to be able to march out over 1000m of open terrain to get to a brawl. It isn't reasonable, even without LRM spamming you will be too vulnerable to PPCs, ERLL, etc. Plan your advance to close with the enemy.

Not saying you are bad (I am not great myself), but brawlers, and the dire wolf in particular, take time to learn to pilot well, and speed tweak is a night and day difference on the dire wolf.

[-VooDoo-]

I am not too shabby. All 3 are maxed on skills...as are my other 15 mechs. Yes speed tweak helps some in a mechs that are naturally slow. I average 3/4 kills a game and am pretty fluent in the mech. I think I may just need to seriously hide more in the beginning of matches and let people burn out lrm ammo cause once the find me... it's over for me typically.

[-VooDoo-]

And yes I use radar dep to be clear. However I found ams a waste of space unless 3+ mechs that have it are all huddled together...and it's not easy for a whale to keep up with the pack.

[Milocinia]

Radar deprivation is OP. As long as you don't get narc'ed, the difference it makes is phenomenal plus it's not just lurms, the tactical advantage it gives you when your opponent doesn't know which direction you're moving in after you take cover is pretty invaluable.

Granted it is a very expensive module at 6m cb but you know, "end-game" apparently.

What I do have a particular beef about is clan lurms. Even though they do reduced damage at close range, the "impulse" screen shake is the same. If anything, their impulse needs to be scaled down with range to align with their damage reduction.

[Moomtazz]

Livewyr, on 27 October 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

Radar Deprivation. Best 6million cbills in this game. (If you pass out of LoS.. they lose lock.)

Very useful when with friends.. pass behind a friendly mech and they lose lock. (reduced effectiveness if they are using Adv. Target Decay.)

Yeah man, 6 mil on a module instead of a new mech has to be good for player retention.

[Milocinia]

Are lurms still at 1.1 damage? I see no reason why they can't be scaled back to 1.0 along with a slight tweak in their speed, say a 10% reduction.

Yeah boating is a proper pita but as it stands I don't think lurms are really that far off. Back to 1.0 and a slight reduction in speed and I think they're about there.

Perhaps... just thinking a bit out of the box here... narc and tag could actually offer a speed boost to locked missiles if their default speed is knocked down a bit?

[Astrocanis]

Kyocera, on 27 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Are lurms still at 1.1 damage? I see no reason why they can't be scaled back to 1.0 along with a slight tweak in their speed, say a 10% reduction.

Yeah boating is a proper pita but as it stands I don't think lurms are really that far off. Back to 1.0 and a slight reduction in speed and I think they're about there.

Perhaps... just thinking a bit out of the box here... narc and tag could actually offer a speed boost to locked missiles if their default speed is knocked down a bit?

They've already been scaled back in both damage and speed.

Unfortunately, those that never learn to avoid LRMs ... apparently ... never learn. Straight from the Department of Redundancy Department =P

No amount of nerfing, other than removal, is going to stop the complaints. And, if they were actually removed, people would move on to Embers, Jenners and eventually, Quickdraws and Dragons.

At some point, the populace at large has to come to the conclusion that this is not shooting ducks at a penny arcade. They need to move.

[-VooDoo-]

Like I have already said...nerf hammer is not the answer. I lean more towards the defensive side for changes. With tag, narc and UAV's....lrm's have enough help. Revisiting the defensive side of things for dynamic solutions is more appropriate I believe.

[Kjudoon]

Kyocera, on 27 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Are lurms still at 1.1 damage? I see no reason why they can't be scaled back to 1.0 along with a slight tweak in their speed, say a 10% reduction.

Yeah boating is a proper pita but as it stands I don't think lurms are really that far off. Back to 1.0 and a slight reduction in speed and I think they're about there.

Perhaps... just thinking a bit out of the box here... narc and tag could actually offer a speed boost to locked missiles if their default speed is knocked down a bit?

About there seems to translate to 'something that can be ignored'.

tsk tsk tsk.