29 replies to this topic

[riverslq]

all people do is hill climb, over and over and over
say anything different? nope, we're up the hill, you're sol.

pgi,
dont bother making any more large maps.
just 1 sector.
its all we use anyway.


<edit>My apologies. Alpine. </edit>

Edited by riverslq, 27 October 2014 - 09:45 PM.

[FupDup]

The problem with Alpine isn't its size, the problem is its shape.

More specifically, it features a huge mountain that is a clear choice for the team that wants a terrain advantage (being elevated over the enemy is an advantage) and the very wide and clear lines of sight make it ridiculously easy for snipers to suppress people.

Edited by FupDup, 27 October 2014 - 06:34 PM.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

occasionally they listen and it gives us a stomp. otherwise, no.

Partly their fault spawns and cap points funnel only to a small area. There are many far more interesting places to fight on that map.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 27 October 2014 - 06:35 PM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Sure people do, if they are not slow. Get a lance of 'Mechs that break 100 kph on comms and you get some really fun flanking tactics. You should also play conquest more. A whole different set of tactics.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

You mean Alpine? Yeah, for one side the I9 hill is pretty much all there is. The other team can do F10 reasonably well, I think.

You could always just not play the king of the hill game but you may have to wait while they just sit there in the middle of the map.

Edited by Rouken, 27 October 2014 - 07:30 PM.

[Brody319]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...peaks&m=assault
One team spawns north east of the central hill. They have a flat mountain. Going south or north of the mountain leaves them with large open space where they can be sniped and shot.

The other team spawns south west, they get a lot of ridges to hide, but are extremely exposed if they wanna attack up the mountain.

the top of the mountain has a curve shape with spikes on either side giving cover.

This means that one team really has no choice but to set up at the top of the hill, the other team can hold back and have plenty of cover or can try to push up the hill if they wish. The shape of the map almost forces this to play out. One team cannot hit the enemy except by going up the hill, and the other cannot push in any direction but the hill or they are exposed.


Same problem with other maps. They have to be symmetrical or one team may gain an advantage. manifold is a decent example of this.

[LordKnightFandragon]

So remove the hill and make it like the southern part of the map, with moderately large mounds all over the place. Some lower valleys and stuff, dotted with additional little outposts or something...

[El Bandito]

riverslq, on 27 October 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

all people do is hill climb, over and over and over
say anything different? nope, we're up the hill, you're sol.

pgi,
dont bother making any more large maps.
just 1 sector.
its all we use anyway.

Theoretically, hill at H11 is another very good place to camp for the southern team, if the team does not wish to contest the traditional H9.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 October 2014 - 07:10 PM.

[Brody319]

LordKnightFandragon, on 27 October 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

So remove the hill and make it like the southern part of the map, with moderately large mounds all over the place. Some lower valleys and stuff, dotted with additional little outposts or something...

They won't change it now that its out. best bet is to hope for a new map that is properly designed for a team based game. I mean look at TF2, the maps they put out are designed around a single objective. These maps have to be ready for 3 game modes so they have to design them as such.

I recommend a lesson from 2fort, have 2 enclosed city areas, with a large open area in the middle. The size of alpine peaks. Then put 1 base inside each city area, then the 3 other bases spawn in a line one far right, left, and middle. maybe some ridges to prevent people on the far right shooting middle or left. and boom, you got yourself a balanced map and might encourage lances to split up.

[Budor]

Alpine is horrible, the conquest area is ok'ish (sans gamma) but the map is so awfull in the other gamemodes that i actually enjoy running up the hill, dying (or not) and getting in another match faster...

[LordKnightFandragon]

Brody319, on 27 October 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

They won't change it now that its out. best bet is to hope for a new map that is properly designed for a team based game. I mean look at TF2, the maps they put out are designed around a single objective. These maps have to be ready for 3 game modes so they have to design them as such.

I recommend a lesson from 2fort, have 2 enclosed city areas, with a large open area in the middle. The size of alpine peaks. Then put 1 base inside each city area, then the 3 other bases spawn in a line one far right, left, and middle. maybe some ridges to prevent people on the far right shooting middle or left. and boom, you got yourself a balanced map and might encourage lances to split up.

Alpine....

2 bases or cities on both west and east of the map, sitting up the mountainside a bit, surrounded by rolling hills and basically like the south of the map is now.

Then running N to S the entire length of the map, is a deep chasm, it has a few ramps where we can go down into it, but inside it has tunnels that lead to various other places on the map. Its twisty, windy, enclosed, maybe a few spots in the map where it's caved in and you could possibly fall in if your not payin attention.

Down at the bottom of hte mountain is 2 more fire bases, basically like those small ones we have now.

Teams spawn up in the bases that are half way up the mountain. Cuz alpine looks like its kinda fought on the side of a mountain......

[Mondos]

I did notice something new the other night, A dual guass jag sitting on that far hill in the back corner (top left I think).
He sniped and sniped till his bin were dry, Not sure if anyone had the heart to tell him that at 2000 mtrs that it wasn't working.

Our team had fun dropping Airstrikes on him though.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Mondos, on 27 October 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

I did notice something new the other night, A dual guass jag sitting on that far hill in the back corner (top left I think).
He sniped and sniped till his bin were dry, Not sure if anyone had the heart to tell him that at 2000 mtrs that it wasn't working.

Our team had fun dropping Airstrikes on him though.

Well, it doesnt help that you get red hit marks regardless of if it does damage or not....

[Y E O N N E]

You only get hit markers if it does damage. That damage can be, like, 0.01 points, but if there was damage at all then it will turn red.

FupDup, on 27 October 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

The problem with Alpine isn't its size, the problem is its shape.

More specifically, it features a huge mountain that is a clear choice for the team that wants a terrain advantage (being elevated over the enemy is an advantage) and the very wide and clear lines of sight make it ridiculously easy for snipers to suppress people.

What I find ridiculous about this is that the ridge behind the mountain in I11 (I think) is a far superior position, and yet nobody takes it. Nope, going for the mountain!

[Macster16]

Alpine makes for a good Conquest map IMO. I've had some really good conquest rounds on it with lots of skirmishes going on at once all over the map while lights are frantically trying to run around to keep up with caps. Lots of action happening everywhere.

For Assault and Skirmish however, it's a terrible map.

[Mystere]

The hilltop at H11 overlooks H9. It has only 2 approaches, both steep uphill climbs, thus providing great opportunities for ambushes in assault and skirmish matches. A single pesky mech with long range weapons is enough to force the enemy down from their hill.

Edited by Mystere, 27 October 2014 - 09:22 PM.

[Sadist Cain]

It's psychology along with map design with central focal points.

Every single map, everyone rushes to the centre, folk hate TT because it has a massive ring that highlights this stupidity.

You can make far more tactically advantageous positions anywhere you like, the derpball will still charge to centre of the map.

I find it bizarre in what's supposed to be a tactical game the vast majority of players just zerg their way towards the same grid sector for every map.
It's disturbing when the level of "Tactics" in this game has more parallels with an insect than with anything that requires thought & positioning.

[Mercules]

Basically if you could convince your team to pick a different area and just sit there and wait eventually a light/medium from the other team will try and find you. Once you kill them now their team is FORCED to come to your position and fight you there. This is assuming Skirmish is what the OP is talking about.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Sadist Cain, on 27 October 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

It's psychology along with map design with central focal points.

Every single map, everyone rushes to the centre, folk hate TT because it has a massive ring that highlights this stupidity.

You can make far more tactically advantageous positions anywhere you like, the derpball will still charge to centre of the map.

I find it bizarre in what's supposed to be a tactical game the vast majority of players just zerg their way towards the same grid sector for every map.
It's disturbing when the level of "Tactics" in this game has more parallels with an insect than with anything that requires thought & positioning.

Those big ants or is there like bazillions of them?

But wow, thats alot of black.

[FireDog]

Guys the map was designed BEFORE the hill climb nerf. The heavier non-jump jet equipped mechs had many more options for movement (goat trails and ramps) and the ones with JJs had good play over most all the map. Now with the limited mobility (combined hill climb and JJ nerfs) Alpine gets somewhat repetitive since the map support only two approaches per team with the same hills commanding them. This is so sad since there is so much wonderful terrain which hardly never gets used. I wish PGI would add random spawn points along the perimeter of the map so every skirmish game could be fought over different parts of the map. As for assault, place a well fortified base in the center and let the attackers attack it from any side they desire. Maybe let the attackers have a randomly located drop ship base/LZ to defend as well. Scouting could actually take place to give the heavies time to position and fast mediums could take advantage of their mobility to influence the game.