62 replies to this topic

[Alex Warden]

i tried to convince a few ppl to play MWO with me in the past. Some can´t stand the grind, but that´s an old topic, and i don´t want to beat that again...

what isn´t really discussed very much, but what bothers me since the "end of beta", is a sentence with which one of my gaming friends (a WoT player) said to me and never played the game again...

"I expected Mechs to be giant war machines that stand their ground for minutes in the heat of battles, not to die in a few seconds"...

he tried... he tested alot of mechs that day, especially those labeled "heavy" and "assault" battle mechs, because i told him those were the closest to what he asked me for: " I want to play a Mech that is slow, big and can take a punch"...

he didn´t find any...

and honestly, i miss those days too, when battles were slower paced, because the over-all damage output wasn´t so ridiculously high as it is today...

i guess he didn´t expect a 100 tons walking steel giant to cower behind cover or die in seconds... and i can understand him to a certain degree...

Edited by Alex Warden, 26 October 2014 - 10:35 PM.

[Brody319]

Did you group drop?

[Chip Danger]

I'd blame Elo for that. he was stuck in matches to high for him to get a feel for anything. They should dump that system.

[DaZur]

No snark intended but your essentially saying that PGI is culpable for not supporting your friends preconceived notion of how a 100 mech should dish-out and or absorb damage?

That all said, its a notion a lot of people carry into this game that leads them to feeling somewhat underwhelmed...

There are times when I too wish battle were a little more protracted. Then again... I don't miss the 15 minute circles of death as I and my opponent spiraled trying to get that last leg-shot...

[Greenjulius]

The closest thing he can play to his specifications, an Atlas or Dire Wolf, is definitely better armored than anything else on the field.

The problem is that there are 12 people on the other side that want to take them out as soon as possible. The moment the first Dire Wolf or Atlas is spotted, all targets have a tendency to shift towards it. It is the nature of the game to take the dangerous targets out first.

I suppose 8 man teams would help with this quite a bit. Longer cooldowns too. MWO definitely has the quickest time to kill of any Mechwarrior game I've played. Maybe there isn't an answer.

[Alex Warden]

DaZur, on 26 October 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

No snark intended but your essentially saying that PGI is culpable for not supporting your friends preconceived notion of how a 100 mech should dish-out and or absorb damage?

That all said, its a notion a lot of people carry into this game that leads them to feeling somewhat underwhelmed...

There are times when I too wish battle were a little more protracted. Then again... I don't miss the 15 minute circles of death as I and my opponent spiraled trying to get that last leg-shot...

yea well, partly agreed, but i think PGI should try to find a sweetspot between paper mechs and immortality somehow

maybe the promised structure buff might do a bit, but that on the other hand might add the problem of cored, unarmed mechs that take longer to die... well

Edited by Alex Warden, 26 October 2014 - 10:48 PM.

[Krivvan]

Assault mechs are actually some of the more vulnerable mechs around. Especially for a new player. Make one positioning mistake and you will go down in seconds. This is frankly a good thing. Heavies and Mediums are actually what survive the easiest (lights are much safer from positioning mistakes, but suffer from other things which make them vulnerable).

New players really shouldn't initially touch Assaults or Lights. No matter what their preconceived notions of what should survive the longest. Increasing the time to kill of the game still means Assaults die fast relatively when piloted badly. Doing something to help Assaults not be vulnerable to this means basically leaving little reason to not run Assaults.

Edited by Krivvan, 26 October 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[Brody319]

Krivvan, on 26 October 2014 - 10:53 PM, said:

Assault mechs are actually some of the more vulnerable mechs around. Especially for a new player. Make one positioning mistake and you will go down in seconds. This is frankly a good thing. Heavies and Mediums are actually what survive the easiest (lights are much safer from positioning mistakes, but suffer from other things which make them vulnerable).

New players really shouldn't initially touch Assaults or Lights. No matter what their preconceived notions of what should survive the longest. Increasing the time to kill of the game still means Assaults die fast relatively when piloted badly. Doing something to help Assaults not be vulnerable to this means basically leaving little reason to not run Assaults.

Really this. Assaults and lights are higher on the skill spectrum than any other classes of mechs. you gotta spread damage, you gotta know when to push and when not too, know the weaknesses of your mechs and learn to cover it. They are not forgiving, you mess up, you lose a limb and probably get killed.

Mediums and Heavies are much more forgiving, they can just take more damage and get away faster than lights or mediums.
Try to get him in a Doomcrow or a Shadowhawk, they are some mean mechs.

[Mystere]

No amount of armor in BT can protect any mech for long if it is being focus fired. It's the nature of the game.

I say speed and agility matter -- a lot.

Edited by Mystere, 26 October 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[Krivvan]

Not to mention that new players need to not go off completely alone (eventually it can be done with either a very compelling reason or if you're in a Light) and it's easy to make that mistake when you're new and lacking awareness in an Assault.

[Grantham Besat]

I played WOT the issue is he is used to shots bouncing but honestly high end tank play the time to kill is shorter than in mwo. I saw many a Maus tank die almost instantly when spotted. So I am notnsure why he is upset when am atlas even driven badly lives longer than the normal wot insta gib.

Edited by Grantham Besat, 26 October 2014 - 11:11 PM.

[Kilo 40]

he wanted to be THE mech in the game and everyone else to be infantry or something.

[Thorqemada]

OP is right - Mechs dont feel like highly armored combat vehicles that can withstand a barrage like they should do.
TTK for a Mech is at most 10 seconds and many be closer to 5 seconds if they cant be 1 shot.
Firepower is King - Speed is Prince - Armor (+ Structure) is Beggar.

[Grantham Besat]

No game will ever make armor king or it invalidate s every type of vehicle in said game except the big ones.

Edited by Grantham Besat, 26 October 2014 - 11:45 PM.

[NextGame]

learn to torso twist

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Your friend was expecting to bounce shots.

Thankfully MWO doesn't work that way.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Greenjulius, on 26 October 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

The closest thing he can play to his specifications, an Atlas or Dire Wolf, is definitely better armored than anything else on the field.

The problem is that there are 12 people on the other side that want to take them out as soon as possible. The moment the first Dire Wolf or Atlas is spotted, all targets have a tendency to shift towards it. It is the nature of the game to take the dangerous targets out first.

I suppose 8 man teams would help with this quite a bit. Longer cooldowns too. MWO definitely has the quickest time to kill of any Mechwarrior game I've played. Maybe there isn't an answer.

Or its the playerbase is soo staunchly opposed to any ideas that could potentially increase TTK without adding GH or armor....

The more I think about a Cof mechanic in this game, the more I kinda lean towards supporting one, even if it wasnt as drastic as WoT, I could only hope it wasnt...maybe more like PLanetside 2, it actually had a CoF, but it was fairly low almost to where you didnt really notice it except for those times you kinda fired more then you should have....

Id hope PGI would aim more for that goal. Let us fire in short, controlled bursts for best results. Firing large alphas result in alot of missing, heat penalties, and the whole lot. Heat discipline has always been something I thought MW games were based around...but as it is now, who cares about heat management when we can lolpha 80dmg and what happens? Oh, we sit there looking stupid for a few seconds, but hte target is dead in 1 shot.......

[Vassago Rain]

DaZur, on 26 October 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

No snark intended but your essentially saying that PGI is culpable for not supporting your friends preconceived notion of how a 100 mech should dish-out and or absorb damage?

That all said, its a notion a lot of people carry into this game that leads them to feeling somewhat underwhelmed...

There are times when I too wish battle were a little more protracted. Then again... I don't miss the 15 minute circles of death as I and my opponent spiraled trying to get that last leg-shot...

lol, dazur, plz.

Even in TT lore, the atlas is described as a machine that's expected to take on a company of wasps and stingers, and leave only one functional once it's depleted its ammo reserves.



That's mechwarrior. That's what people rightfully expect.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Vassago Rain, on 27 October 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

lol, dazur, plz.

Even in TT lore, the atlas is described as a machine that's expected to take on a company of wasps and stingers, and leave only one functional once it's depleted its ammo reserves.



That's mechwarrior. That's what people rightfully expect.

yeah, really lol...

MW4 made Assaults feel like Assaults...MW3, never got to play it much......sadly. But they felt tanky for sure.

MWO feels like Call of Duty with more guns and more armor....

[STEF_]

Imo, the main problem is "convergence", as always