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Kit Fox Suddenly Tanking Damage, Other Lights As Well


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#1 Pezzer

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 03:17 PM

So after this most recent patch, I thought I was going crazy. Kit Foxes and Firestarters seemed to be taking the kind of damage that would put 55-60 ton mechs down.
Well, I've been playing all week to make sure I wasn't crazy, and I can definitively say that a Kit Fox/Firestarter should not be capable of taking 30+ point alphas and coming out with yellow armor. This latest patch has messed up hit registration again, I've alpha'd several Kit Foxes that were'nt or were barely moving to be sure. I was hitting a Firestarter with 4 MLs and 2 LLs at 100 meters several times and each time his armor came out yellow, then light orange. This was in his CT and RT, a Firestarter should be dark orange at least after 2 alphas of that size.

I'm simply on here to confirm that my findings over about 40+ matches this week have come to the conclusion that these 2 mechs in particular are tanking an awful lot of damage. My remaining team of 6 took about 10 seconds of constant fire to down a remaining, damaged Kit Fox. Wish I had a video, because that alone proves the fact that hitreg is being weird again.

#2 The Flying Gecko

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 05:13 PM

This hasn't been my experience at all. My Kit-Fox almost always get's legged (or close to if i'm in pristine condition) from a double-guass shot.

#3 Pezzer

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 06:06 PM

View PostThe Flying Gecko, on 29 October 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

This hasn't been my experience at all. My Kit-Fox almost always get's legged (or close to if i'm in pristine condition) from a double-guass shot.

Since double Gauss is a 30-point pinpoint alpha, a mech can't lag through and "tank" it so to speak. The problems that I'm talking about are with SRMs, LRMs, and lasers mostly. I think the main problem is with lasers again. The servers were messed up before and that was giving lasers hitreg issues, I think that's happening again with certain mechs. SRMs may be having problems because of the way that they work and the server not detecting hits (the hitreg for SRMs is server-side, if the server is lagging or messed up so will SRMs), but I don't really know. I'm not a server technician, I'm just here to post my strange findings.

Something to note, Spiders don't seem to be having the same weird problems which is unusual for the mech. It's mostly happening to the 35-tonners and Kit Fox. Maybe it has to do with the size of the mechs? I'm not sure.

#4 NetherlightWolf

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 11:27 AM

It seems to be an issue with non-pulse lasers and how hsr works. I can testify to dumping dual guass, 2 er larges, and 6 er mediums right into the ct of an already damaged awesome at 400m away only for its ct armor to be barely orange as if it only counted the guass hits.

Let's see... 30+23+42=95 damage. (Yes I had the lasers on him for the full duration.) An already damaged awesome should be a lot worse than barely orange armor if not cored outright.

Edited by Shiverwolf, 30 October 2014 - 11:28 AM.


#5 Bront

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 11:31 AM

I've had no issues and managed to one shot a few lights with SRMs this week. If anything, I've found my lights (particularly my firestarter) to be more fragile since the hit reg fix on the servers.

#6 FREDtheDEAD

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 04:32 AM

Hit detection issues have always been unpredictable and a function of the pings and connection quirks of all the players involved. It's pretty poor right now though a feeling difficult to prove.

#7 Kmieciu

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 04:42 AM

Laser hit detection is at all-times low.

#8 Koniving

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 05:09 AM

View PostPezzer, on 29 October 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

So after this most recent patch, I thought I was going crazy. Kit Foxes and Firestarters seemed to be taking the kind of damage that would put 55-60 ton mechs down.


It's quite easy really.

Take your mech. Do this.
Your mech is now invincible.

To consider:
The average mech has 60% front torso, 40% rear torso.
The 'bad' mechs either have 75% front torso, 25% rear torso or they have 55% and 45%. In the prior case, the front torso is disproportionately huge and very poorly split up between the hitboxes. In the later case (Summoner!), you can't split armor from the rear to the front without putting a gun in your mouth to eat a lead sandwich.

The 'Great' mechs have 85% or greater front torso, 15% or less rear torso. This means that under normal armor allocation they are easy to kill -- that's not so great. However the hitboxes are split in such a way that if you aim for the CT, you're more likely to hit an ST. If you aim for an ST, you'll probably hit an arm. No matter what you do, you're more likely to hit some other body part.

Combine this with the great amount of front torso space, that when you channel precious points of armor from the rear to the front, you still have virtually no risk to your backside... Take a Timber Wolf. Each one of the front torso hitboxes is, in fact, as large or larger than the Awesome's CT + 1/4th of the Awesome's ST depending on the equipment you have on your Timber Wolf. But, because of this and the flat panel design of the rear torso, it is virtually impossible to damage the rear torso without being directly behind it. And even then you are likely to hit the front torso...from the rear. I kid you not.

So a Timber Wolf can get away with this. And you'd never be the wiser.
Meanwhile, the average Victor must use this, because of how easy it is to hit the rear torso from 75 degrees to the rear left or right (something that is not easy to get successful rear torso hits against a Timber Wolf).
TW front torso, 90.
Victor front CT, 86.
TW front ST, 62.
Victor front ST, 54.

This is because too much of the TW's torso counts as the front, with a flat-back rear.

A Summoner on the other hand, has sharp angles and curves on the rear, making it hittable even from 90 degrees to the side. You can be directly to the left of a Summoner and hit its rear torso. It's got an almost 50/50 split on most of its torsos (except the LT and only if you have a missile launcher, but really that's 50% rear + 65% front, as the front grows but the rear is exactly the same).

And there you have it.

Jenners and Firestarters are high volumes of front torso. A Jenner is actually 92% front torso (CT). The STs are more 80/20.
The Firestarter is about 75/25 for the STs and 85/15 for the CT (that head is almost entirely front torsos with a slight split between ST and CT; the rear of the head is partly rear CT, with some of it front CT).

#9 Scout Derek

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 08:50 AM

Um... any video proof?

#10 LennStar

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 11:40 AM

A week or so ago I shot a FS with dual ERPPC. Crosshair was red. FS had no registered dmg.

Its also rediculous that I can fire 4 30dmg alphas into an incoming FS (its mostly the FS), having the lasers on the torso 80% of the time bc he is not moving sideways and most dmg is a slight orange.
Or the one where I fired the 30dmg in the back of a standing FS and 2 parts were just barely yellow.

#11 Troutmonkey

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 10:57 PM

My ping is always terrible but I've noticed in one or two games Firestarters "eating" my dual UAC5 shots. Not hit marker, but no shots hitting the ground either. They just vanished when they hit it. Other mechs seem to take damage just fine

#12 Pezzer

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:24 AM

View PostKoniving, on 31 October 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:


It's quite easy really.

Take your mech. Do this.
Your mech is now invincible.

To consider:
The average mech has 60% front torso, 40% rear torso.
The 'bad' mechs either have 75% front torso, 25% rear torso or they have 55% and 45%. In the prior case, the front torso is disproportionately huge and very poorly split up between the hitboxes. In the later case (Summoner!), you can't split armor from the rear to the front without putting a gun in your mouth to eat a lead sandwich.

The 'Great' mechs have 85% or greater front torso, 15% or less rear torso. This means that under normal armor allocation they are easy to kill -- that's not so great. However the hitboxes are split in such a way that if you aim for the CT, you're more likely to hit an ST. If you aim for an ST, you'll probably hit an arm. No matter what you do, you're more likely to hit some other body part.

Combine this with the great amount of front torso space, that when you channel precious points of armor from the rear to the front, you still have virtually no risk to your backside... Take a Timber Wolf. Each one of the front torso hitboxes is, in fact, as large or larger than the Awesome's CT + 1/4th of the Awesome's ST depending on the equipment you have on your Timber Wolf. But, because of this and the flat panel design of the rear torso, it is virtually impossible to damage the rear torso without being directly behind it. And even then you are likely to hit the front torso...from the rear. I kid you not.

So a Timber Wolf can get away with this. And you'd never be the wiser.
Meanwhile, the average Victor must use this, because of how easy it is to hit the rear torso from 75 degrees to the rear left or right (something that is not easy to get successful rear torso hits against a Timber Wolf).
TW front torso, 90.
Victor front CT, 86.
TW front ST, 62.
Victor front ST, 54.

This is because too much of the TW's torso counts as the front, with a flat-back rear.

A Summoner on the other hand, has sharp angles and curves on the rear, making it hittable even from 90 degrees to the side. You can be directly to the left of a Summoner and hit its rear torso. It's got an almost 50/50 split on most of its torsos (except the LT and only if you have a missile launcher, but really that's 50% rear + 65% front, as the front grows but the rear is exactly the same).

And there you have it.

Jenners and Firestarters are high volumes of front torso. A Jenner is actually 92% front torso (CT). The STs are more 80/20.
The Firestarter is about 75/25 for the STs and 85/15 for the CT (that head is almost entirely front torsos with a slight split between ST and CT; the rear of the head is partly rear CT, with some of it front CT).

So, long story short this game's hotboxes are still wishy-washey as hell and some mechs can get away with complete BS...

While that could have been what was happening while I was playing, I'm not sure. Thanks for the info though! Where are the hitbox analyses located on the forums? I have a hard time finding them.

#13 Ironwithin

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:40 AM

View PostPezzer, on 03 November 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

So, long story short this game's hotboxes are still wishy-washey as hell and some mechs can get away with complete BS...

While that could have been what was happening while I was playing, I'm not sure. Thanks for the info though! Where are the hitbox analyses located on the forums? I have a hard time finding them.


http://mwomercs.com/...x-localization/

#14 Pezzer

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 03:39 PM

View PostIronwithin, on 03 November 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:


Thanks!!!!!

#15 Koniving

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 03:59 PM

View PostPezzer, on 03 November 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

So, long story short this game's hotboxes are still wishy-washey as hell and some mechs can get away with complete BS...

Exactly.

#16 Vashramire

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:48 PM

I've been noticing it with Kit Foxes and Firestarters mainly. I'll hit them with several volleys of dual srm4's and they don't even turn orange. Most seem unafraid to engage much larger mechs, not even trying to dodge fire and only seem to go down when focused by 4+ people.

#17 Kmieciu

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:22 PM

View PostScout Derek, on 31 October 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

Um... any video proof?



18 damage alpha strike from the 6xSL. Count how many alphas can a Commando survive.

#18 Thrudvangar

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 11:25 PM

i started to hate Jenners because of this **** too...

a dark red CT cored jenner who runs through the enemy mech lines, taking fire from at least 8 enemies and still lives and can flee just sucks... i started hunting him, shooting one LBX10 salvo after another onto his back while he runned away... it didnt helped... then, after another 3 or 4 minutes he just runned into my teammates again and finally died....

especially firestarters and jenners can tank alot more damage than they should be, this is ridiculous

#19 Lily from animove

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:08 AM

View PostThrudvangar, on 03 November 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:

i started to hate Jenners because of this **** too...

a dark red CT cored jenner who runs through the enemy mech lines, taking fire from at least 8 enemies and still lives and can flee just sucks... i started hunting him, shooting one LBX10 salvo after another onto his back while he runned away... it didnt helped... then, after another 3 or 4 minutes he just runned into my teammates again and finally died....

especially firestarters and jenners can tank alot more damage than they should be, this is ridiculous



yeha kinda gamebreakign when hitreg makes mechs near immortal and still let them deal like 100+ damage. That cna change the outcome of a mtatch a lot because:

the drag firepwoer which would went somewhere else.
They do damqge that would not existed.

#20 Kmieciu

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:57 AM

You can smear a fast mech with lasers for minutes and it's not going down. But once it looses a leg, the next alpha will core it.
That's why Stormcrow is so superior: you run fast enough to get a lagshield, but at the same time can equip Gauss and 4-5 ERML.

Use Gauss to leg that light mech, then finish them off with a laser blast when it's not moving.





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