37 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

And that's how it's done.
Drop it on a mass of clustered badly damaged mechs.
Sweet Christmas!

[Novakaine]

Ryokens leap, on 30 October 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

Whatever you need to tell urself friend. I guess what I'm really trying to say is that PGI should be embarrassed that they have a game mechanic that can kill 3 mechs without needing any kind of lock-on or accurate targeting, just in the general vicinity, push a key, c-bill withdrawal. I'm not QQing about being killed by A/A, I honestly don't think it's every got me, I just think it's douchy.

Nothing broken here.
It was just proper deployment.
I've gotten doubles by just dropping it on a group badly damaged mechs.
No armor - no protection.
And yes your are QQing.

[Telmasa]

UCR Starwolf, on 30 October 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

You've seen a single strike kill multiple mechs this week?!
I call BS.
I agree arty is kinda gimmicky, but it adds an element to the game. Good positioning and awareness can minimize Strike damage.

If I had stored replay features like from WoT, I could show them to you. It's real, it happened, and no I didn't think to take a screenshot each time I saw it happen.

nehebkau, on 30 October 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

and LRMs are so much better....

Requirements to be effective with LRMs:
1. Target prioritization & knowing when to shoot and when not to shoot
2. Upgraded equipment (DHS, Artemis, BAP, probably tag/narc, possibly target info delay)
3. Being within certain ranges, allowing for travel time that increases with distance
4. Leaving yourself relatively vulnerable to brawlers or light mechs, in most builds
5. Packing plenty ammunition
6. Making sure someone on your team keeps constant line of sight on moving targets that often have plenty of cover, thanks to PGI and refusing to make any truly "open" maps

Requirements to be effective with Artillery/Air Strikes:
1. Know how to point at least *one* time per match, and click & run around wildly
2. Fork up 40,000 cbills per match


Counters to LRMs:
1. ECM
2. Breaking line of sight
3. Radar deprivation
4. AMS
5. Going so fast that LRMs struggle to keep up (i.e. Commandos going 150+)
6. Torso-twisting to minimize damage (standing sideways actually makes it harder too, if the mech has a skinny side profile)
7. Staying either outside 1000m or moving inside 180m (even though Clan LRMs can damage inside that range, the damage inside of around 120m is next to negligible)
8. Making use of terrain to block incoming missiles
9. Listening to Bitching Betty


Counters to Artillery/Air Strikes:
(none)



Enough said?

Edited by Telmasa, 30 October 2014 - 10:14 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Davegt27, on 30 October 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

I counted 7 sec from the time for the call for the air strike to the kills

and there does not seem to be a counter measure for it

I think it would be impossible even in the 31 century to call in a air strike in 7 seconds


also why cant the other side have counter air cap (mig cap is a term some people are familiar with)

to call in a 7 second air strike you must first have air dominance so who's to say which team has it


JMTCW

Could be an interesting concept that would work with CW. Coffer funds could be used to buy 'aerial support' for defending a planet. Similarly the attackers could use funds in the same way. Both parties would have a limit (so that those groups that have excessive c-bills can't just spam air superiority). Before the drop, the 'dogfight' is calculated and chance of successful airstrike is determined by the outcome - no defenders left 100% with diminishing returns as the defending force that remains increases...

[HlynkaCG]

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

...

Counters to Artillery/Air Strikes:
(none)

Enough said?

No, as you seem to be ignoring the obvious, namely don't stand next to red smoke.

[Telmasa]

HlynkaCG, on 31 October 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

No, as you seem to be ignoring the obvious, namely don't stand next to red smoke.

...the enemy typically doesn't give you a choice. Hence there really is no counter to it.

As I've made clear in another thread, the only way you can possibly avoid that smoke in 4-5 seconds is to 1. be moving at top speed already, 2. instantly notice when and where the red smoke pops and 3. instantly beeline the right direction to maximize distance away from it, and even THEN you'll probably be splashed by at least one shell.

None of which fits the definition of "counteractive".

[Jump Gunnington]

Telmasa, on 31 October 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

...the enemy typically doesn't give you a choice. Hence there really is no counter to it.

As I've made clear in another thread, the only way you can possibly avoid that smoke in 4-5 seconds is to 1. be moving at top speed already, 2. instantly notice when and where the red smoke pops and 3. instantly beeline the right direction to maximize distance away from it, and even THEN you'll probably be splashed by at least one shell.

None of which fits the definition of "counteractive".

Nah, I think you are using the word "instantly" a bit loosley, I've been in a jager of mine that goes about 76kph and had smoke behind me, after someone on my team told me on the TS channel that there was smoke around I was able to get out from a dead stop and not take any hits. Often I take a single measly hit, no big deal really. And on the rare occasion I take a single shell and it hits my cockpit (that I run on low armor for that nice half ton up there) and get headshoted. All sorts of things happen, but escaping is a major one of the possibilites, as long as you are not an Assault.

[HlynkaCG]

Telmasa, on 31 October 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

...the enemy typically doesn't give you a choice. Hence there really is no counter to it.

As I've made clear in another thread, the only way you can possibly avoid that smoke in 4-5 seconds is to 1. be moving at top speed already, 2. instantly notice when and where the red smoke pops and 3. instantly beeline the right direction to maximize distance away from it, and even THEN you'll probably be splashed by at least one shell.

None of which fits the definition of "counteractive".

What do you think the "counter play" to direct fire is?

The enemy not giving you a choice is an example of "good play" on the part of the enemy, and you can't fault them for that. Keep moving and keep your head head on a swivel. so long as you are driving something more nimble than a Dire Whale it is entirely possible to avoid most if not all of a strike's damage.

[Hugh Fairgrove]

Jump Gunnington, on 30 October 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

Douchy?


Like impersonally using OP when a users name is very easily read? Like raining on the fun of someone who had happen to capture something very unlikely to happen? I'll take your word on the matter, you seem to be an expert on the field.

Just because you may prefer something like a Dual PPC Dual Gauss Dire Wolf, dosen't mean that Air/Arty is a bad idea. I actually like your ideas on adding a mechanic to launch the smoke grenade in order to add a layer of fun to it. It isn't a problem as it is though. Air/Arty gives brawlers a way to make Spiders scatter from finishing off a cap point, it gives us a way to make the Gauss sniper move. Is it spammed heavily by n00bs? Yes,does that mean everyone who usues it is part of some inferior breed of gamer, no.

If you really want your argument for chaning the mechanics of Air/Arty, maybe don't just bash anyone who mentions it or displays footage of it. I actually feel more like opposing you than I feel I need the change after watching you be a classic internet jerk.

Beleive it or not Mechwarrior has more to it than mechs, there is a war going on in this universe that involves men, guns, tanks, jets, spaceships, and yes at the center of all the highlight reels, mecha. I honestly wish we could see more involvment from the other parts of our factions militarys.

This^

[Grim DeGrim]

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

If I had stored replay features like from WoT, I could show them to you. It's real, it happened, and no I didn't think to take a screenshot each time I saw it happen.



Requirements to be effective with LRMs:
1. Target prioritization & knowing when to shoot and when not to shoot
2. Upgraded equipment (DHS, Artemis, BAP, probably tag/narc, possibly target info delay)
3. Being within certain ranges, allowing for travel time that increases with distance
4. Leaving yourself relatively vulnerable to brawlers or light mechs, in most builds
5. Packing plenty ammunition
6. Making sure someone on your team keeps constant line of sight on moving targets that often have plenty of cover, thanks to PGI and refusing to make any truly "open" maps

Requirements to be effective with Artillery/Air Strikes:
1. Know how to point at least *one* time per match, and click & run around wildly
2. Fork up 40,000 cbills per match


Counters to LRMs:
1. ECM
2. Breaking line of sight
3. Radar deprivation
4. AMS
5. Going so fast that LRMs struggle to keep up (i.e. Commandos going 150+)
6. Torso-twisting to minimize damage (standing sideways actually makes it harder too, if the mech has a skinny side profile)
7. Staying either outside 1000m or moving inside 180m (even though Clan LRMs can damage inside that range, the damage inside of around 120m is next to negligible)
8. Making use of terrain to block incoming missiles
9. Listening to Bitching Betty


Counters to Artillery/Air Strikes:
(none)



Enough said?

We have ourselves here a genuinely bona-fide pro lrm'er here. The A/A discussion was within the realm of reason, but let's not kid ourselves: spamming lrm from 800y out with 1600 total payload (or more) is anything but skilful.

[Nightmare1]

Ryokens leap, on 30 October 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

Whatever you need to tell urself friend. I guess what I'm really trying to say is that PGI should be embarrassed that they have a game mechanic that can kill 3 mechs without needing any kind of lock-on or accurate targeting, just in the general vicinity, push a key, c-bill withdrawal. I'm not QQing about being killed by A/A, I honestly don't think it's every got me, I just think it's douchy.

It is canonical though. I'll take canonical over TT or personal bias any time!

[nehebkau]

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Requirements to be effective with LRMs:

Bla bla bla bla bla

Enough said?

Struck a nerve huh? You basically glossed over the basic similarity, excluding that arty and airstrike require LOS. with your LRMs you can hide, in complete cover and fire away without threat to yourself. You can fire over and over and over. Your 'air strikes' track your targets. Your LRMs do more damage than an arty or airstrike over the course of a match.....

Ya, like i said, Artillery, Air, LRMs pretty much the same crap.

Maybe we should make LRMs even more similar to artillery strikes and have them require LOS and NOT track the target.

Edited by nehebkau, 31 October 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[Voivode]

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

I've seen arty/air strikes get 2-3 kills a match quite a few times just over the last week....


Totally not a broken pay-to-win gimmick at ALL. No sir.


"Hey look guys, I can run around in a mech going 150+, click once at the cost of 40,000 cbills, and do 200+ damage to you all for sticking together, and there's NOTHING you can do about it! Aren't I awesome?"


This game would be perfectly fine, and in my view, better off, without any artillery or air strikes at all.

Nope. Have to disagree with you. The arty and air strikes are perfect in this game because of PRECISELY what you're talking about. Having arty and air strikes gives players a way to punish the heavy/assault deathball of the enemy team. This is exactly what artillery and air strikes are used for in actual combat as well as the simulated combat of the Battletech universe: punishing massed enemy formation and hardpoints.

If four assaults stand within forty meters of each other, then they deserve the 200 points of damage they take.

It adds depth to the game. I like it.

[Voivode]

Grim DeGrim, on 31 October 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

We have ourselves here a genuinely bona-fide pro lrm'er here. The A/A discussion was within the realm of reason, but let's not kid ourselves: spamming lrm from 800y out with 1600 total payload (or more) is anything but skilful.

The skill in LRMs is finding the right place to position yourself. If you're too far from the target they get too much warning and duck behind cover so all you shoot is a wall. Get too close and you find yourself in a knife fight with nothing but a sharpened spoon. Playing well with LRMs takes a good amount of situational awareness. Aiming is not the only in game skill that matters.

[nehebkau]

Voivode, on 31 October 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

The skill in LRMs is .....

Started laughing right at this point and couldn't stop.

Artillery, Airstrike, LRMs.... Blue, Stilton, Limburger .... cheese is cheese -- just that some are stinkier and more expensive than others.

Edited by nehebkau, 31 October 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[The Flying Gecko]

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

I've seen arty/air strikes get 2-3 kills a match quite a few times just over the last week....


Totally not a broken pay-to-win gimmick at ALL. No sir.


"Hey look guys, I can run around in a mech going 150+, click once at the cost of 40,000 cbills, and do 200+ damage to you all for sticking together, and there's NOTHING you can do about it! Aren't I awesome?"


This game would be perfectly fine, and in my view, better off, without any artillery or air strikes at all.

You could try moving. Oh and using your eyes helps. I'm very alert and wary of pink smoke when I'm in a big group.

[Biza]

The QQ is strong in this thread.

Personally I think gauss rifles are skill less.

I want 2 cannons that shoot arty strikes, it would be harder for me to kill mechs that way.

[Voivode]

nehebkau, on 31 October 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

Started laughing right at this point and couldn't stop.

Artillery, Airstrike, LRMs.... Blue, Stilton, Limburger .... cheese is cheese -- just that some are stinkier and more expensive than others.

Yep. Just another player who died to indirect fire and is butthurt about it. Artillery, airstrikes, and LRMs are deeply embedded in the Intellectual Property this game stems from. Deal with it.