50 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bilbo, on 30 October 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm making what the Op suggests now. Seems fair to me.

Then I think your performance is probably much higher than the average player. Prior to the changes I averaged 140k per match or roughly 840k per hour (based on 6 matches per hour). This is with a premium subscription and using a 30% bonus mech at least 30% of the time.

To average the number I suggest you would have to average the following per match:

166k per match, non-premium
250k per match, premium only
300k per match, premium + 30% bonus mech.

This is taking into account both wins and losses and if your pulling those kinds of numbers on average, your god incarnate when it comes to MWO.

[Bront]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 October 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

For Me non premium
400K per Hour. Mechs are not supposed to be easy or cheap to buy.

Premium
600K per hour

All the Bells and whhistles
800K per hour

That is for 3.5-4.0 matches per hour.

Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad

Seriously, I would not want to play in that game. I'd have left a long time ago if that was the case. The game now is boarderline too grindy for me. This would make it unplayable. IMHO at least.

Edit: Wait, at 4 matches per hour? that explains your numbers. I thought your number was at 6 per hour. That's what we have now, 100,000 per match or there abouts.

DaZur, on 30 October 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

[/size]
My estimated expected return falls perfectly in line with your example...

While I'm in the minority as I think presently the GP is not terrible, as an agreement that it could be better I think a modest 20% increase would do the trick for all but the most ardent detractors.

Non-premium = 1,200,000 per hour
Premium = 1,700,000 per hour
Premium + 30% bonus mech = 2,000,000 per hour

Your math is wrong. PT is 50% increase, not a flat 500,000 increase, same with Hero mechs and 30% increase..

topgun505, on 30 October 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

I don't know about per hour, but per game I would day it should be a minimum of 100k per match for a loss. That way a player can use 2 consumables and still make at least a tiny amount of money extra.

This a disagree with. Losses making less than 80K I'm fine with. It's part of how great matches average things out. The floor may be a bit too low now (under 30K is pretty sad), but a 100K floor is too high.

That said, you can currently make 120K in a "good" loss.

Edited by Bront, 30 October 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[DaZur]

WarHippy, on 30 October 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

You have to understand that while Joseph is a genuinely awesome guy he is also about as close as you can get in this game to a mech monogamist. He has a very limited selection of mechs that he plays that fit to his chosen faction, and as such he doesn't understand the collector/ADHD mindset.

"mech monogamist"... Love it.

Bront, on 30 October 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

Your math is wrong. PT is 50% increase, not a flat 500,000 increase, same with Hero mechs and 30% increase..

I'm Polish... "Math" is clearly optional

[Angel of Annihilation]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 October 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Yes I think it is fair that it takes me that long. Likely longer in my case.


I play Pokemon. I understand it quite well.


I'm making a bit less than that, and I am thrilled. I was happy before.

Hey Joe,

Let's keep this thread on topic if we can. We already have 3-4 threads where you and I and several other people are arguing about our perceptions of the current game play. What I am trying for with this thread is to get an idea of what earnings pace the community thinks is a fair and good pace, so I would ask you to just tell us what you think is a good pace and not argue with everyone else just because you disagree with their answer.

Bront, on 30 October 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad

Seriously, I would not want to play in that game. I'd have left a long time ago if that was the case. The game now is boarderline too grindy for me. This would make it unplayable. IMHO at least.

Your math is wrong. PT is 50% increase, not a flat 500,000 increase, same with Hero mechs and 30% increase..


This a disagree with. Losses making less than 80K I'm fine with. It's part of how great matches average things out. The floor may be a bit too low now (under 30K is pretty sad), but a 100K floor is too high.

That said, you can currently make 120K in a "good" loss.

This goes for you too hehe.


Honestly, lets all try to do this OK. No debating or arguing, just give us your thoughts on the subject so we can get some sort of context on what the community thinks are fair rewards.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 30 October 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[Bilbo]

Viktor Drake, on 30 October 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Then I think your performance is probably much higher than the average player. Prior to the changes I averaged 140k per match or roughly 840k per hour (based on 6 matches per hour). This is with a premium subscription and using a 30% bonus mech at least 30% of the time.

To average the number I suggest you would have to average the following per match:

166k per match, non-premium
250k per match, premium only
300k per match, premium + 30% bonus mech.

This is taking into account both wins and losses and if your pulling those kinds of numbers on average, your god incarnate when it comes to MWO.

I wouldn't know how well I'm performing in relation to anyone else, but the few times I checked the numbers, on a win, I am making 250k or more with premium. I don't usually check it at all and I don't normally stick around to see the outcome if I go down really early either. I just look at my cbills before I start playing and again when I'm through. It looks like I'm making somewhere between 1-2 million an hour.

[Joseph Mallan]

redacted.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 October 2014 - 10:35 AM.

[Bront]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 October 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

redacted.

Don't worry, I edited my responce after seeing your note about 4 matches per hour.

[Killstorm999999]

Axeface, on 30 October 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Fast or easy!? Fast or easy...........
So let me get this straight.

Lets say the average player (figure out of thin air) plays 10-20 hours a week.
Let's call it 20 (being generous) - you think that it is ok that this player has to spend AN ENTIRE MONTH of gaming to get a single varient of the direwolf? Three entire months to master it - Assuming that they don't spend ANYTHING on modules, or consumables, or change the loadout, or... anything else.
All of this just to do it all over again, on the same maps, on the same game types, for no reason whatsoever.

Sounds like extreme masochism to me. Cbill gains must be increased substantially.


PS: Thats a clan mech that comes with all the upgrades and a good engine. Even an IS MEDIUM could probably cost about the same as a dire if you want an XL and upgrades. Insanity.

I think this is the main issue with the grind: that you have to buy three variants of the same chassis to master it. I certainly don't mind playing for a month to buy a single variant of an assault chassis, but don't make me grind for another 2 months to buy two more variants. I would rather buy new and completely unique mechs. I am not going to spend my time grinding for something that is so similar to what I already have.

You should be able to master a chassis without purchasing all variants. They could increase the exp cost drastically so the time it takes is equivalent to time it takes to purchase 3 chassis and level them, and then perhaps owning the chassis could give a discount.

[Bront]

Viktor Drake, on 30 October 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

Honestly, lets all try to do this OK. No debating or arguing, just give us your thoughts on the subject so we can get some sort of context on what the community thinks are fair rewards.

Hey, I did post my ideas (second post in fact).

And the point of a discussion is to debate things. But we can at least be discussing average income.

On topic, keep in mind CW may positively effect income (and it should, it's an incentive to play CW then).

[Gamuray]

So, we are talking about a game where the main content that you get is the mechs. You can't earn maps or gamemodes, those are given, unlike a single player campaign. With this in mind, you should be earning new content fairly often while playing maybe 2-3 hours a day. This is keeping casual players in mind. I would say... maybe after 7 days at 3 hours of play.. that's 21 hours (an entire day with only 3 hours to sleep, eat, etc.) .. should be enough to earn about... (let's use the fully outfitted DWF scale that has been used a lot recently) 1 DWF. This would be for a casual player that isn't very busy, who would be getting content fairly often (once-twice a week depending on price). This allows someone who plays sub-regularly (because of busy lifestyle or family, etc.) to still get new content at a decent rate (Once per 1-2 weeks depending on time and price).

Note: Unless otherwise stated, these earnings are with no bonuses with mid-ranged skill and mechs.

At the above rate, a busy,casual player can match the earnings of the non-busy person with premium or boosted mechs.
An active, serious player who isn't busy can be matched by non-busy casuals with premium, boosted mechs, or combo thereof.
An active, serious player will earn mechs quite often, so will either be exchanging mechs, or, more likely will buy mechbays often in addition to whatever camos, props, etc. they normally buy.

I feel a change to earnings would not only bring in more new casual players, but would increase interests for them in buying some boosts. They should get content often enough to maintain interest, but slow enough to desire a bit more. Which they don't atm unless they only by locusts/commandos. <-(referencing new, low framerate, OR poor skilled players)

Plus, let's face it, if you run out of content to earn, then you likely aren't going to stop playing due to that reason.

Edited by Gamuray, 30 October 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bront, on 30 October 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Hey, I did post my ideas (second post in fact).

And the point of a discussion is to debate things. But we can at least be discussing average income.

On topic, keep in mind CW may positively effect income (and it should, it's an incentive to play CW then).

But income there should be according to the contract and what the Unit is paid to fulfill it.

[Bront]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 October 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

But income there should be according to the contract and what the Unit is paid to fulfill it.

It's still in theory a net boost to income, even if it only comes in 2-3 hour chunks 1-3 times a day.

[EvangelionUnit]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 October 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

I am quite happy earning a Million every 4 hours or so. Buying Mechs should not be fast or easy.

I'm not. i would be happy with 10 millions every 4 hours or so. buying mechs should be fast and easy.

or there would be no reason to sell the ones you don't like

[wanderer]

Quote

For Me non premium
400K per Hour. Mechs are not supposed to be easy or cheap to buy.

The. Hell.

Let's try this out. Never mind buying a 'Mech.

Let's, oh, install DHS on a 'Mech. About 1.5 million CBills. One of those basic things that any giant robot worth it's tonnage has, which we all install without a second thought.

Just that little bit is four hours of play. Assuming you did nothing else to modify the 'Mech.

How about one of those commonly used 300 Standard engines? 1.8 million or so. Never mind an XL if it's a light or something, an XL 300 is _4.9_ million Cbills.

That's 3.3 million C-bills or so right there of average mods to a new chassis, being conservative. 8 hours+ of playing just to get a few parts for your new robot, not even including the price of said robot. And never mind if it's a light 'Mech that begs for an XL. Just the -engine- in that case is half a day straight of playing.

Let's say...premium time,600K per hour. That XL drops to a mere 8 hours of play. Woo! I -work a full shift- and I can build my light 'Mech with a good engine! Go me!
And that's not even considering Clan machines, where a single gun can be over a million Cbills. Ammo not included. More realistically, they're 400-600k. Let's play for an hour straight or more so we can get one gun, shall we? A Clan heavy? 14 million +. 35 hours worth of play. One robot. Minimum. No extra parts, omnipods- that's just the stock.

This is the grind that devours a man's soul, Joseph. And it surely does not do good things for getting your happy players buying Mechbays and paintjobs and such.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Deltron Zero, on 30 October 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

I think this is the main issue with the grind: that you have to buy three variants of the same chassis to master it. I certainly don't mind playing for a month to buy a single variant of an assault chassis, but don't make me grind for another 2 months to buy two more variants. I would rather buy new and completely unique mechs. I am not going to spend my time grinding for something that is so similar to what I already have.

You should be able to master a chassis without purchasing all variants. They could increase the exp cost drastically so the time it takes is equivalent to time it takes to purchase 3 chassis and level them, and then perhaps owning the chassis could give a discount.

Honestly, this is kind of part of the issue. In order to get the most out of any mech you buy, you have to buy three of them, two of which you might very well throw away while losing 1/2 their value.

Prime example, for the longest time I had just a DDC which was the only Altas I wanted. I ran it basic only for a while but that wasn't very fun so I looked into buying and outfitting two more....which is about a cool 30 million C-bills to outfit for actually playing with. So when I turn around to sell them, I end up with about 6-7 million C-bills or 20 million which is half of month of fairly hard grinding wasted....just to get the one mech I actually wanted master unlocked.

Warhawk is another example. I want exactly one Warhawk, no more, no less. I can probably buy and outfit that one for around 18 million give or take. However since I have to have three and actually play there, now I have to come up with 56 million C-bills and when I sell the two I don't want, I will have lost around 30 million Cbills or almost an entire month worth of C-bills. 30 million is a pretty steep price to pay just to master out a single mech.

Basically it all adds up in the end and is why the grind

[Troutmonkey]

Earn less CBILLs = Don't get many mechs
Few mechs = No need for extra mech bays.
No mechs to play = bored and stop playing, no new content because can't afford it

Earn more CBILLs = Buy more mechs
More mechs = need to buy more mech bays
Mech Bays = MC
Will probably have left over MC after buying mech bays, end up buying a few other things.
Customer is now a paying customer and has a much higher chance of purchasing further MC or Hero Mechs.

The first purchase is the hardest to get out of any customer, after that it's a lot easier. Instead of punishing free users with endless grind you should offer more incentive's.

"Pay for less grind!"
isn't as appealing as
"Pay so you can keep unlocking space for more cool robots!"

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Quick reply:

I think you should make, at minimum, 100k to 150k per match, before premium time or hero mechs. Hero mechs should be +50% c-bills and premium time +100%.

Assume you get 6 matches in an hour (10 minutes match time including wait), that's 600k-900k per hour.

The same thing with premium+hero would be 1.5mil to 2.25mil per hour.

edit: I certainly wouldn't mind higher numbers than these, I just consider this to be the 'bare minimum'.

Edited by Alexander MacTaggart, 30 October 2014 - 06:10 PM.

[strongl3ad]

I do feel like glorious matches should be worth more, or that "match score" should be SOMEHOW related to cbills earned.


How much should you earn on a match like this?

Edited by strongl3ad, 31 October 2014 - 01:31 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

strongl3ad, on 31 October 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

I do feel like glorious matches should be worth more, or that "match score" should be SOMEHOW related to cbills earned.


How much should you earn on a match like this?

I'd be fine with 180K.

Bront, on 30 October 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

It's still in theory a net boost to income, even if it only comes in 2-3 hour chunks 1-3 times a day.

But not if you fail to fulfill your end of the contract. Sorry man but if I don't produce positive results I do not deserve to be paid. We aren't athletes we are Mercenaries in this game.

[Bigbacon]

I can start to see where the complaints are coming from after spending more time using mainly damage dealing mechs with no support.

Now I always have premium time because,even before the change, without it I wouldn't get anywhere cbill or xp wise. anything over 150k is good, anything over 200k is like amazing to me. With premium and a hero mech I can normally get over 200k win or lose.

I don't know how you people manage without premium time though...I can see why so many would complain.

The awards are all over the place for me. they can range from 100k to 275k depending. All over though, i mean even brawly mechs can get my 250 while my support attempts can get nothing. I also don't farm with TAG and I've always been a Narc user.

It seems pretty balanced out.

I tend to look at earning more as rounds to a million vs time played and I think if the average skilled player (which I put myself into that category) should be able to get 1 million cbills in like 6 or 7 rounds played. that is like a round average of 145k bills. seems reasonable to me.

Would i LOVE to get 250k every single round..you bet but it doesn't happen and won't.

I do think also, like the above poster is that epic round scores should definitely be getting people a hell of a lot more.

those complaining about the "Grind" you need to remember this is F2P...you can skip the grind by buying MC. That is the incentive you get for being a paying customer. You investing your time is all on you and not PGI. Want your instant gratification, pony up $$$.

Also if you aren't having fun during those 35 hours to get your FREE mech then you obviously need to step away from the game. They also give away so much free stuff lately you can't really complain. free mech bays being the most generous since they normally can only be bought.

Edited by Bigbacon, 31 October 2014 - 04:21 AM.