8 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

So for someone more familiar than I am with these two mechs, can you explain why the CN9-AL was rated higher on tiers and why when it comes to pulse lasers the WVR-6K will completely outperform it?


The WVR-6K has 5 extra tons, and a massively larger engine capacity.

Hardpoint wise the WVR-6K has 5 E and 1 M vs. the CN9-AL with 4E + 2M.



Is that it then? 1 extra missile slot will see the WVR-6K be unquestionably superior with large pulse lasers?

The CN9-AL is getting a larger variety of buffs, but when it comes to all things energy - especially LPLs the WVR will have it beat completely.

Or is my unfamiliarity with these mechs misleading me and there is something I'm not seeing?



Reference:

[Apnu]

Ultimatum X, on 30 October 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

So for someone more familiar than I am with these two mechs, can you explain why the CN9-AL was rated higher on tiers and why when it comes to pulse lasers the WVR-6K will completely outperform it?


The WVR-6K has 5 extra tons, and a massively larger engine capacity.

Hardpoint wise the WVR-6K has 5 E and 1 M vs. the CN9-AL with 4E + 2M.



Is that it then? 1 extra missile slot will see the WVR-6K be unquestionably superior with large pulse lasers?

The CN9-AL is getting a larger variety of buffs, but when it comes to all things energy - especially LPLs the WVR will have it beat completely.

Or is my unfamiliarity with these mechs misleading me and there is something I'm not seeing?

The WVR-6K has 4 of its 5 energy points in one arm, and the other is in the head. The Missiles are a box on the high shoulder, increasing the size of that torso location, so it attracts more fire like the fins on the JM6. The WVR also has a very thick, torso, though trapezoidal like the Cent. It can spread damage, but it usually takes all the damage its spreading.

The CN9-AL, on the other hand, has 2 energy in the arm, 2 in the CT. The missile points are imbedded in the torso and don't add to the mech's profile and increase its "size" when packing them. The Cent is very wasp waisted and the torsos are tiny by comparison. When twisting to spread damage, its possible to have some of that damage actually miss because of laser duration, LB and missile spread.

The profile of the Cent makes it one of the best medium mechs in the game.

On edit:

Why pulse lasers for the WVR-6K? No idea. Somebody at PGI must have a reason tho. Maybe they got confused between it and the 7K which does carry pulse lasers stock.

I'm still wondering why the CPLT-K2 doesn't get a PPC buff, its supposed to be a PPC fire support mech, but players build it like a gimpy Jaeger. JM6-<any> > CPLT-K2 despite the JM6's towering trunk, I hardly see the K2 anymore.

Edited by Apnu, 30 October 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[Ultimax]

Apnu, on 30 October 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

The WVR-6K has 4 of its 5 energy points in one arm, and the other is in the head. The Missiles are a box on the high shoulder, increasing the size of that torso location, so it attracts more fire like the fins on the JM6. The WVR also has a very thick, torso, though trapezoidal like the Cent. It can spread damage, but it usually takes all the damage its spreading.

The CN9-AL, on the other hand, has 2 energy in the arm, 2 in the CT. The missile points are imbedded in the torso and don't add to the mech's profile and increase its "size" when packing them. The Cent is very wasp waisted and the torsos are tiny by comparison. When twisting to spread damage, its possible to have some of that damage actually miss because of laser duration, LB and missile spread.

The profile of the Cent makes it one of the best medium mechs in the game.

That's a fair assessment.


My question is, do you think the Centurion's innate advantages +small bonuses will be enough to challenge this Wolverine's ability to fire Large Pulse Laser to an optimal range of 558m? That's further than the optimal range of Clan Large Pulse lasers.

Firing it 25% faster and at 25% lower heat (a wash for heat, but DPS increase).



I was all set to hop into Centurions, especially for the AL so I could run a WUB arm and then the devs went and threw this curveball where I could have a 375 engine Wolverine firing LPLs out to 558m....

[Macksheen]

I console myself that this is a starting point.

A T3 mech got 3 quirks worth roughly some middling amount ... and a T5 got 5 quirks worth a big amount each.

So, the CN9 gets 3 quirks that look to be around 10% general + 10% w/ specific weapon and the WVR got a few more and for a bigger amount.

I would also add that while the WVR has all of them in the one arm, the CN9 can go with one in the CT for it's tripod.

[Apnu]

Ultimatum X, on 30 October 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

That's a fair assessment.


My question is, do you think the Centurion's innate advantages +small bonuses will be enough to challenge this Wolverine's ability to fire Large Pulse Laser to an optimal range of 558m? That's further than the optimal range of Clan Large Pulse lasers.

Firing it 25% faster and at 25% lower heat (a wash for heat, but DPS increase).



I was all set to hop into Centurions, especially for the AL so I could run a WUB arm and then the devs went and threw this curveball where I could have a 375 engine Wolverine firing LPLs out to 558m....

Those tricky Devs.. I have a few builds I'm reconsidering b/c of the quirks (My AWUBsome 8Q is crying now).

I think the CN9-AL and WVR-6K do different things on the battlefield. When I was getting the basics done on the AL, I ran it with a LPL and it did that well. I used it as a light hunter, pulse lasers and SSRMs with a fast engine. The main problem with the 6K is most of its weapons are going to be in that arm. Like the Griffs and Cents, everybody knows to take that arm off to halve the potential damage of the WVR.

The Cent is a brawler chassis and its perks, no matter what variant you got, reflect that. The Wolvie is meant to be a skimirsher or fire support and its perks look at it that way.

Of the Wolvies, I liked the 6K the least. Too much of the mech's potential is in that one arm and at 55 tons, its fairly easy to remove it for any vet player. Clan players, its not a threat at all. I got the basics on mine and sold it off. I like the 7K better. Three missile points gave me more build flexibility. Mine drove with a big engine, LPL, MLs, SSRM2s and BAP for light hunting.

The Wolvies do have a better torso twist than the Cent, they can almost look behind themselves like the Hunchback.

[Deathlike]

To be honest, these two are not exactly the most comparable, so it's not exactly a fair comparison.

The Centurion-AL is not my favorite Centurion. I would go as far to say it is the "worst" Centurion, but considering it's not as bad compared to the Wolverine-6K, it's probably more telling.

The AL does not have the engine cap that the 6K has (the 6K's engine cap is meh compared to other Wolverines though, due to diminishing returns). Putting an XL on it IMO does not make sense, unless you need the tonnage for bigger weapons from the "gun arm". Still, it's rather slow (275 engines aren't going to make you go that fast really). The best builds for it tends to be like the 4ML+2ASRM6 types... with the occasional TAG+LRM combo if you really wanted to go that route. The 6K does not have flexibility (more missile hardpoints are beneficial anyways).

Durability is still there, but I'm going to kinda question the lack of a buff to the protection of the missile torso due to the removal of the missile doors. The removal of the missile doors changes things a bit, as it was worth "learning" to fire with the delay to get the extra durability that missile torso needed. The 6K relies on its speed, primarily to get where one needs to go to aim and minimize exposure.

The 6K what amounts to a one trick pony... but worse is that it is generally considered "high risk, meh reward". At the very least, it does have better torso twist than the Centurion... but the Centurion doesn't suddenly become "useless" once the gun arm is removed. The Wolverine on the other hand looks bad at that point.

It's really a difference in playstyle and usage... and I "like" the 6K despite its deficiencies (and hate the AL more), so on the surface, it's hard to look at the hardpoints and numbers and come to the conclusions... you simply have to play them out to find out how much you are willing to suffer (the Wolverine-6R is a disaster while the rest of the Cents have different roles.. the 7K is what most people even bother to grind them).

[Alexander MacTaggart]

They gave the -AL LPL quirks? Ugh.

Guess that's anther variant I won't be getting quirk bonuses on.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Wish I understood why they chose pulse lasers for the Centurion. I mean stock it comes with standard lasers all the way around so why a pulse laser buff.

Alexander MacTaggart, on 30 October 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

They gave the -AL LPL quirks? Ugh.

Guess that's anther variant I won't be getting quirk bonuses on.

Yep, I use 2 LL, 2 ML, SRM4 and an SRM 6 with artemis on mine so won't get to use the LPL quirk at all. Still there is quite a bit of generic energy perks so I can't really complain too much.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 30 October 2014 - 04:34 PM.

[Macksheen]

I wouldn't mind either of them switching to ERLLs instead