281 replies to this topic

[Xhaleon]

Black Sunder, on 19 December 2011 - 06:36 AM, said:

Because next year is 3049 according to their timeline. Not 3050.

...

*checks news feed*

AWWW ******, IT IS!

I FORGOT, OKAY? PEOPLE AREN'T PERFECT!

Omigir, on 19 December 2011 - 06:26 AM, said:

If you are so worried about there being ubermechs with mechlabs, why not be worried about those first firew units who get Clan mechs and then do the same thing as if they had ubermech.

I'm not worried, just chipping in. Which I was totally wrong on anyway.

[CaveMan]

Omigir, on 19 December 2011 - 06:26 AM, said:

If you are so worried about there being ubermechs with mechlabs, why not be worried about those first firew units who get Clan mechs and then do the same thing as if they had ubermech.

Maybe Clans won't become player content at all. It would make a lot of hardcore fans mad (myself included, to an extent), but it would make an awful lot of sense for PGI to be planning Clans as the game's first PvE content, to drop a full year after the initial release.

What about salvage though? Well, we don't know for sure that the game is even going to have salvage. And if it does, not being able to salvage Clan parts could be waived away with an explanation like "it's too advanced for your techs to repair it, so the NAIS buys up all your Clan salvage and pays you for it instead".

[TheRulesLawyer]

CaveMan, on 19 December 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

Maybe Clans won't become player content at all. It would make a lot of hardcore fans mad (myself included, to an extent), but it would make an awful lot of sense for PGI to be planning Clans as the game's first PvE content, to drop a full year after the initial release.

What about salvage though? Well, we don't know for sure that the game is even going to have salvage. And if it does, not being able to salvage Clan parts could be waived away with an explanation like "it's too advanced for your techs to repair it, so the NAIS buys up all your Clan salvage and pays you for it instead".

As much as I wish that to be true, I think they'll have playable clans mechs. I'm kind of hoping that it won't be something you can just buy with cbills or $bills. I'd rather see a full chassis awarded through LP, In game missions, or other methods outside the normal mech acquisition scheme.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Just do it the Clan way - to get in you have to go through a trial. Same to stay in or for promotion, better mech etc..

[MaddMaxx]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 19 December 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

Just do it the Clan way - to get in you have to go through a trial. Same to stay in or for promotion, better mech etc..

Who gives the Trial?
An AI they created during that year as well?
The Top LP owners (House or Merc Corps)?
One pays RL cash to become a Trial boss?

Interesting indeed.

[Red Beard]

Brakkyn, on 18 December 2011 - 09:04 PM, said:

No MechLab in any game to date has been anywhere near good enough for the game is was featured in.

Full customization is a bad thing. It always leads to bad things. It has never been a good idea, or led to good things.

But regardless of what I or anyone else feels or thinks, we do not know what MechWarrior Online is going to implement. The point is temporarily moot.

Indeed, what Brakkyn, said is very much the case. Nothing good comes from the mechlab, other than the fun the users have making the mechs. The effects that the custom mechs have on the game itself is usually only negative.

[CeeKay Boques]

Red Beard, on 19 December 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

Indeed, what Brakkyn, said is very much the case. Nothing good comes from the mechlab, other than the fun the users have making the mechs. The effects that the custom mechs have on the game itself is usually only negative.

This is untrue, in addition to being madness.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

"Players will be able to customize their BattleMechs with weapon and armor upgrades as well as customize their cosmetic appearance in the MechLab." This is the sum total of what we know so far. How far the customisation applies is another matter. It makes no mention of electronics or ammo, or even whether we can swop one weapon for another of the same type ie replace a Hunchbacks AC20 with an AC10 or LBX10. Maybe there will be approved "variant kits" whitch may or may not leave some tonnage available for other changes such as another heat sink. I think a lot of what we will be able to do will be based on their play testing/balancing with regard to mech roles and teamplay. I get the impression that what we will not have is a full MW3/MW2 Mechlab where you can design, build and run anything you can imagine. I think what we may get is a (hopefully improved) version of the MW4 Mechlab where you have design constraints built in. As someone who loves to tweak, I could work within the constraints. I have seen the problems that unrestrained design/build can lead with regard to minimising/marginalising all but a few "best" variations.I think it's (as usual at the moment) a case of wait and see until we have more information.

[MaddMaxx]

If it is not possible to disregard Heat required additions, HS's, then that would help. Building a very Hot ride is not a problem if your weapons load out will kill an enemy quickly, as for the Ballistics, heat is not as bad a problem but then Ammo comes into play.

In those instances, you might be restricted to how much Ammo one Mech can actually carry based on some "base" Armor requirement. So no stripping the arms and Head and minimizing the rest of the Chassis in order to load up on ammo.

Your MechLab Master Tech simply sees that as bad Mech design and will have none of it. Design NOT approved for the field. Try again sucker.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 20 December 2011 - 07:42 AM.

[Red Beard]

Technoviking, on 19 December 2011 - 10:59 PM, said:

This is untrue, in addition to being madness.

Obviously Techno is one of the fellas that can't wait to spend hours and hours piecing together some kind of concoction in the lab, only to stomp out of the gate and show off his new and useless ride.

I snicker at thee, sir.

Edited by Red Beard, 20 December 2011 - 07:56 AM.

[Omigir]

MaddMaxx, I am a ****damn Mechwarrior, fraken tankers and mech monkies do what I tell them to do. Turn that wrench! Add that armor!

XP

Just like real pilots in the military!

"But Sir, your aircraft is not designed to carry that payload"

"Just make it happen! I want my payload now!"

Edited by Omigir, 20 December 2011 - 08:10 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

@Red Beard - get used to playing in the lab - it will be in in some form. We will have to wait to see what we will be allowed to do. My bet is it will be limited, but not necessarily useless.
@Omigir - first rule in any service - never PO the techs- or your nice shiny ride will end up a hangar queen

[Tannhauser Gate]

I dont want a candy store mechlab like MW3 and MW4 or some variation of either. That much customizability creates a situation where only a few sweet configs and a few ideal mechs rule and a vast number of other configs and mechs cant compete (balance). It also changes the game from skill based to config based and its simply promotes arcadey shooter style play.

And dont say that config building is part of skill. Its not. People simply copy the best ones. Then you have config stagnation where there are no new configs until new weapons were introduced such MW4's light gauss rifle. Canon variants with minor changes are more than enough. Its fair, canon, and it levels the playing field so skill becomes the determining factor and not your alpha boat that makes you think you have skill.

In the end the devs will play balance and crap out of the game and the mechlab will reflect that balance.

[Omigir]

Nik, your absolutly right. Seen it happen to a few Harriers in my day. "Whats that sir? No, we didnt. Had to send your engin back to manufacturer so you have to do your Deck Quals in Cpt So and So's ride till we get it back. Oh yeah we have to wait till port to send it out. Oh, thailand, 3 weeks from now." Grounded till the float is over!

LakeDaemon, Im tired of hearing few choice rids, You know how that changes? You fix it. We as a player comunity who like veriety can stop choice rides. No kidding when i got on Mechwarrior 4 online, there were *only* assautls going around 1 shotting each other. So i jumped in a cougar and started stealing kills. Within a week of me doing this, I saw med and assaults coming back online during my time zone peek hours becuase 1 cougar showed that the 'peek mech' was not everything they made it out to be.

so at the very least, give me a little bit of a mech lab. Just enough to make variant I prefer, while not allowing your dredded ubermechs or super boats. there is a ballance and simply 'no' is not finding it.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Omigir, on 20 December 2011 - 09:21 AM, said:

...when i got on Mechwarrior 4 online, there were *only* assautls going around 1 shotting each other. So i jumped in a cougar and started stealing kills. Within a week of me doing this, I saw med and assaults coming back online during my time zone peek hours becuase 1 cougar showed that the 'peek mech' was not everything they made it out to be.

@Omigir. ohh so it was *you* who single handedly showed all the assault jocks of MW4 the error of their ways and brought meds back into play. Must be nice to live in that fantasy world. lol

Anyway, allowing modest changes to canon variants should be enough. MWLL allows *no* changes and its a very successful mod. In the end, we will get a balanced mechlab that reflects what the devs want for the game. They will listen to the fans, sure, but clearly they are going for a more canon approach which Im happy about. I'm not a hard line BT purist but I want the MW series to return to its sim roots based in BT and away from MW4 and MA arcade trend. Mechlab is a major point of contention for many people. The fact is that the more customization you have the more specialization wins the game which reduces the significance of skill, limits variations, and rules out 95% of the other mechs because of the "uber" configs they cant load.

Edited by lakedaemon, 20 December 2011 - 09:45 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Omigir, on 20 December 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

MaddMaxx, I am a ****damn Mechwarrior, fraken tankers and mech monkies do what I tell them to do. Turn that wrench! Add that armor!

XP

Just like real pilots in the military!

"But Sir, your aircraft is not designed to carry that payload"

"Just make it happen! I want my payload now!"

But as Nik noted. The jockeys fly em, they don't maintain them. The modern jet is a good example though. Imagine a Pilot going into the hangar pre-flight.

"Gentlemen, we are going to be doing just bombing runs this afternoon. I need ALL the 50Cal's torn out, and ammo mechanism, so I can carry more bombs. Make it happen! We fly in 60 minutes!"

The Pilot leaves and the hangar crew erupts into raucous gut wrenching laughter. "Can you believe that prema-donna!"

"Jimmy! How many duds do we currently have in Stock. Load em on to Simple Simons plane ok! You got 60 minutes!"

"Ok Boss!. LOL LOL"

Edited by MaddMaxx, 20 December 2011 - 09:51 AM.

[alVolVloLy]

" Mechlab is a major point of contention for many people. The fact is that the more customization you have the more specialization wins the game which reduces the significance of skill, limits variations, and rules out 95% of the other mechs because of the "uber" configs they cant load."

I'm failing to see the logic here. The lab doesn't limit variation, it increases it. Stock configs are more limiting to the use of a variety of chassis than on open lab. With stock configs people are going to lean toward the mech with the best stock config. With the lab at least you can put a similar weapon load on a different mech, if you are inclined to.

[Omigir]

lakedaemon, on 20 December 2011 - 09:43 AM, said:

@Omigir. ohh so it was *you* who single handedly showed all the assault jocks of MW4 the error of their ways and brought meds back into play. Must be nice to live in that fantasy world. lol Anyway, allowing modest changes to canon variants should be enough. MWLL allows *no* changes and its a very successful mod. In the end, we will get a balanced mechlab that reflects what the devs want for the game. They will listen to the fans, sure, but clearly they are going for a more canon approach which Im happy about. I'm not a hard line BT purist but I want the MW series to return to its sim roots based in BT and away from MW4 and MA arcade trend. Mechlab is a major point of contention for many people. The fact is that the more customization you have the more specialization wins the game which reduces the significance of skill, limits variations, and rules out 95% of the other mechs because of the "uber" configs they cant load.

I didnt see any other purple cougars out there, let alone anything lighter than 90 tons that wasnt a madcat. This was before I had mektek patch as well.

Ok, so big boast, but the point is, game play changes and there are trends.

Also! Mektek is a very succesfull patch nad it *did* have customization. More importently, fans made it tolerable. MechLeague is very good about it and I think we as fans have just as much power in balancing as devs do.

Also MA did *not* have a mechlab. Only variants aviable. And everybody Hates MA more then MW4. MW3 also had a mechlab and i have nevery heard it called 'arcadie' Why? Becuase mechlab does not make it arcade like, graphics and feel do. That comes down to how complex the machanics are and how the game looks. More or less.

As far as your Uber mechs go, they are all super flawed. They have to sacrifice everything that makes a mech battle worthy to have a pay load (not to mention NO HEAT AND UNLIMITED AMO) < something we wont see.

But all the above aside, Im not asking for free rane to go out and put the world into my mech, I just want to change wapons a little and maybe add or shave a little armor for speed. Its not hard to put on restrictions to adjust small things or swap weapons. No need to take a giant hammer and hit the whole MWO Comunity over the head becuase you are afraid of 'ubermechs'.

MaddMaxx: Those are the same guys who say "Gents, I want a movie style explosion for this exposition, use what the armorers have over at the cave and make it work."

^Really, *** Sirs.. ***.

[Omigir]

alVolVloLy, on 20 December 2011 - 10:54 AM, said:

" Mechlab is a major point of contention for many people. The fact is that the more customization you have the more specialization wins the game which reduces the significance of skill, limits variations, and rules out 95% of the other mechs because of the "uber" configs they cant load."

I'm failing to see the logic here. The lab doesn't limit variation, it increases it. Stock configs are more limiting to the use of a variety of chassis than on open lab. With stock configs people are going to lean toward the mech with the best stock config. With the lab at least you can put a similar weapon load on a different mech, if you are inclined to.

Also, i am willing to bet allot of the 'clever' players are going to be seen in heavy PPC orented variants, Why? Heavy hit, no ammo. Awesome are indeed Awesome!

[Tannhauser Gate]

@ alVolVloLy

Good point but I never said stock only.. I said modest customization as opposed to total customization (MW3 and to some degree MW4). If mechlab allows for MW3 level of custom load outs, the mechs would be imo frankenmechs. TRO configs, known variants, plus some customization of peripheral weapons and systems is what Id like to see. Id prefer to not have MWO mechs that are equiv to MW4s 7ERLL nova cats or 4ERPPC Gladiators.

Edited by lakedaemon, 20 December 2011 - 11:20 AM.