46 replies to this topic

[The Boz]

Or, as some call it, playing with your friend to let him learn the basics of the game.
Match upon match of our mixed side because we force it to be mixed (the largest I've seen is a whole lance of the same [TAG]) vs twelve members of the same [TEAM], all organized and coordinated and compositioned to perfect synergy.
14 games, 12 losses, most of those were something like 12:2 or worse. Can something be done about this? Please? Introducing new players to the game by throwing them to the dire wolves like this is not likely to make them enjoy their initial experience.

[Joseph Mallan]

Unfortunately no. PUGs got what they wanted cause Teams stomped them without mercy, I don't feel mercy is a requirement in a fighting game, but that wasn't the point. I guess it is better for the game as a whole to let loners play by themselves and make all groups work harder to earn a win.

I don't completely agree with this line of thought but I do understand it.

[The Boz]

Groups never, ever work hard if twelve [TEAM]s face four [TAG]s, three [CREW]s, a pair of [GUY]s, and a loner trying to get a new player into the game. 12:2 is not working hard.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 03 November 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

Groups never, ever work hard if twelve [TEAM]s face four [TAG]s, three [CREW]s, a pair of [GUY]s, and a loner trying to get a new player into the game. 12:2 is not working hard.

True. But four [TAG]s in PUG is an Awesome force.

I am not a fan of the system, I just have to play in it if I wanna kill Clanners eventually.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I have to admit, this is why I haven't invited my friend into the game. I just don't want to deal with organized teams when it is just him and I hanging out.

[Abisha]

that are those people with 4.0 killrate not because they better but more abuse the system.
and even act high and mighty.... roles eyes.

away PGI need to introduce the 12/12 queue and 4/4 Queue's.
so long they like the solo Queue absolute solo.

[Sprouticus]

If your primary goal is to teach someone, then losing should not concern you.

If your primary goal is winning,

1) Play at high population times when smaller groups are far more likely to get other small groups.
2) Join a larger group.


Now, the system is not perfect. But as has been repeated many many times on these boards, PGI has few options. These include:

1) grow the population
2) allow solo players into the group queue (my personal favorite)
3) Use soft limits for game mode (caused a **** fit last time they tried it)
4) Force smaller groups into 1/1/1/1 for 2-4 and 2/2/2/2 for 5-8. (my 2nd favorite option)

Edited by Sprouticus, 03 November 2014 - 06:10 AM.

[Hootchie]

OP, you do have the option of buying premium time and creating a private match in which you can fight against your friend in a 'teaching' environment. Or you can carry harder...

[Tastian]

Sprouticus, on 03 November 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

2) allow solo players into the group queue (my personal favorite)

If given the toggle switch to join group queue as a solo player, I'd select YES. I'd be happy to join either queue as a solo player.

[The Boz]

Sprouticus, on 03 November 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

If your primary goal is to teach someone, then losing should not concern you.

..because being killed by a well-coordinated team within 3 seconds of making contact is a good learning lesson?

[Barantor]

Sprouticus, on 03 November 2014 - 06:09 AM, said:

If your primary goal is to teach someone, then losing should not concern you.

If your primary goal is winning,

My primary goal isn't winning, but losing over and over when you are just a two man because nobody else is on yet doesn't keep the population around if they are new to the game.

I had a friend ask "So if you aren't in a huge guild you are basically just cannon fodder unless you play with them in big groups or go play solo?".

I couldn't really say "No" but I did tell him that it isn't always like that, just at certain times of day.

Checking a game out and trying to figure out your preferred role/mech/etc is best done in solo queue now which is a shame as it doesn't let some of us who have been here a while have a chance to help them out directly.

I wouldn't mind a solo/2-4 man/ and a 4+ queue settings, even if it meant waiting longer when I do have some friends on.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 03 November 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

..because being killed by a well-coordinated team within 3 seconds of making contact is a good learning lesson?

Actually it is.
Lesson:
Don't expose yourself to enemy fire if at all possible.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Abisha, on 03 November 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

that are those people with 4.0 killrate not because they better but more abuse the system.
and even act high and mighty.... roles eyes.

away PGI need to introduce the 12/12 queue and 4/4 Queue's.
so long they like the solo Queue absolute solo.

Exactly, there needs to be a 10/10, 12/12, 4/4..maybe make the 4/4 also like hte 2/2...so a pair of friends can just hang out and try, just try to enjoy this game without being trolled by super clans in a series of 12-1 stomps.....

And PGI might wonder why their playerbase isnt growing much. Im sure its 1 night of random vs Clan........12-0 stomps all night long, spawn in, fire 2 shots and die in a blaze of bullshit, dealing less then 100 damage, while never making any cash, never really even getting to play the game......And thats the new player experience should he come on with a friend.......or should he/she decide to group with some random person to L2P.....fun isnt it?

And really.....somehow its not much better in pugs...I still havent figured out the math as to why sometimes a player gets put on the 0-12 side 30 games in a row....

Joseph Mallan, on 03 November 2014 - 06:34 AM, said:

Actually it is.
Lesson:
Don't expose yourself to enemy fire if at all possible.

Which is where the hide behind a building, dont move out to fire and the overly passive playstyle comes from. Then we get players on here QQing about....if only my team would attack.......

There really needs to be some kinda middle ground where the player can expose enough to fire, but not melt, while also not melting the other player......Obviously, exposing yourself to 2 or 3 mechs is stupid....but really....after being blown to bits time and again cuz the MM is so horridly stacked against you, players just plain refuse to move....or play....

Barantor, on 03 November 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

My primary goal isn't winning, but losing over and over when you are just a two man because nobody else is on yet doesn't keep the population around if they are new to the game.

I had a friend ask "So if you aren't in a huge guild you are basically just cannon fodder unless you play with them in big groups or go play solo?".

I couldn't really say "No" but I did tell him that it isn't always like that, just at certain times of day.

Checking a game out and trying to figure out your preferred role/mech/etc is best done in solo queue now which is a shame as it doesn't let some of us who have been here a while have a chance to help them out directly.

I wouldn't mind a solo/2-4 man/ and a 4+ queue settings, even if it meant waiting longer when I do have some friends on.

I wouldnt mind an 8/8 queue or a 4v4 where its like 2 man groups, maybe 1 buddy and you paired up with another couple of similar paired people against a group of the same type of players.......

but idk....this game doesnt seem to like new players much.....

[PitchBlackYeti]

I have tried to play with a friend of mine in a group of two on many occasions and it's a no-go. Without a full lance your putting your team at a disadvantage from the start because there is usually (at least) a full premade lance on the other side. Now we are both playing solo queue mostly (actually he moved on to other games), which blows because we were specifically looking for a game we could enjoy together.

[Barantor]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 November 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

There really needs to be some kinda middle ground where the player can expose enough to fire, but not melt, while also not melting the other player......Obviously, exposing yourself to 2 or 3 mechs is stupid....but really....after being blown to bits time and again cuz the MM is so horridly stacked against you, players just plain refuse to move....or play....

That my friend comes down to maps that aren't just a series of choke points or one big terrain element that absorbs all the fighting.

The unfortunate thing is that the big maps only seem to have one element (caustic-caldera, alpine-hill, etc) and the small maps are small enough that fire can be exchanged across them from almost anywhere (looking at you river city!).

A player learns nothing of mobility or positioning on those maps besides "hide behind a building" because of the inability to really flank without being detected the whole way.

This has led to the symptom of fewer lights since when they can't flank as easily, but get hit easier (lrms hitting them now) they would rather have a stormcrow. The lights we are normally seeing now are ecm builds, because they at least have the ability to hide 'in plain sight'.

Tourmaline is one map that I think just about all the rest should be based on to fix this. Yeah it has a big center area too, but the side lanes and cover in that map have had me playing in all the areas of it, not just a 3x3 grid section.

[KKRonkka]

Thanks to this current, quite r etard matchmaking system, we dont play mech in groups anymore. It's simply not worth playing with 1-2 friends and facing premades again and again. Talk about "l2p n00b" as much as you like. BIg groups should play against other big groups.

Edited by KKRonkka, 03 November 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[Sprouticus]

PitchBlackYeti, on 03 November 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

I have tried to play with a friend of mine in a group of two on many occasions and it's a no-go. Without a full lance your putting your team at a disadvantage from the start because there is usually (at least) a full premade lance on the other side. Now we are both playing solo queue mostly (actually he moved on to other games), which blows because we were specifically looking for a game we could enjoy together.

I have played with my unit with groups of literally every size. Yes, a 6/4/2 vs a 10/2 is an inherent disadvantage. But Honestly, compared to the disadvantage of the solo PUG lottery, I would MUCH rather player with 2/2/2/2/2 vs 12 any day of the week.

There is NOTHING more frustrating to me that dropping solo and watching the movement of the team in the first 30 seconds and knowing with 100% certainty you are going to lose.

Playing is small groups and getting rolled by 12 mans is not even close to as annoying.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Barantor, on 03 November 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

That my friend comes down to maps that aren't just a series of choke points or one big terrain element that absorbs all the fighting.

The unfortunate thing is that the big maps only seem to have one element (caustic-caldera, alpine-hill, etc) and the small maps are small enough that fire can be exchanged across them from almost anywhere (looking at you river city!).

A player learns nothing of mobility or positioning on those maps besides "hide behind a building" because of the inability to really flank without being detected the whole way.

This has led to the symptom of fewer lights since when they can't flank as easily, but get hit easier (lrms hitting them now) they would rather have a stormcrow. The lights we are normally seeing now are ecm builds, because they at least have the ability to hide 'in plain sight'.

Tourmaline is one map that I think just about all the rest should be based on to fix this. Yeah it has a big center area too, but the side lanes and cover in that map have had me playing in all the areas of it, not just a 3x3 grid section.

Which is why I MUCH prefer huge ass maps to tiny little Cod style maps....Massive maps there is room to move, scout, assess, breathe, learn the lay of the land......and idk, actually PLAY the damn game. If you get in a bad situation, maybe you can duck and run....if you find an opening, you can actually take advantage of it....

MWO maps are exactly like Call of Duty maps...tiny, compact and just no where really to go.......I kinda get a claustrophobic feeling being on these maps..

A Map twice the size of Alpine with various actual objectives with the same 12v12 would be alot better......and maybe even then people would spread out more and it would be more 1v1, 2v1, 2v2....instead of one bit death ball......there is no reason to do anything but.....

[Joseph Mallan]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 November 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

Exactly, there needs to be a 10/10, 12/12, 4/4..maybe make the 4/4 also like hte 2/2...so a pair of friends can just hang out and try, just try to enjoy this game without being trolled by super clans in a series of 12-1 stomps.....

And PGI might wonder why their playerbase isnt growing much. Im sure its 1 night of random vs Clan........12-0 stomps all night long, spawn in, fire 2 shots and die in a blaze of bullshit, dealing less then 100 damage, while never making any cash, never really even getting to play the game......And thats the new player experience should he come on with a friend.......or should he/she decide to group with some random person to L2P.....fun isnt it?

And really.....somehow its not much better in pugs...I still havent figured out the math as to why sometimes a player gets put on the 0-12 side 30 games in a row....




Which is where the hide behind a building, dont move out to fire and the overly passive playstyle comes from. Then we get players on here QQing about....if only my team would attack.......

Hey if you don't want to have patience and let the enemy run out of missiles then just do what I do, find a way to their Flank and wade in. Sure I die, but I died playing stupid and fun!

[Sprouticus]

and I will repeat my point above.

there is very little PGI can do to fix this.

• There is not enough population to support separate group queues.
  
• 12 mans would disappear, and smaller groups(8-10 mans) would not be able to be combines into 12 mans because no 2-4 man would EVER drop in the larger queue.

• If you allow small groups into the solo queue then the solo players are in the same boat (or at least they will think they are and scream bloody murder)

Ill tell the small group players the same thing the small group players time the solo players for 18 months.....suck it up and deal.