96 replies to this topic

[WildeKarde]

It's a pity the OP didn't let his friends play just for the 25 cadet games to see if they actually liked it. The biggest issue any of my friends would have giving MWO a go is they would be hammered till they got some experience playing it, unlike most games I wouldn't be helping them by grouping to be thrown in to the group Q.

However, if someone starts playing and enjoying the experience then the don't notice the "grind" as you put it. It's a grind when you are not enjoying it and only playing for buying the next mech.

TBH having played WoT I find that more of a slog to level, money takes so long to build up and easily spent. Plus not buying anything with real money limits how many tanks I can own same as the point made on mechbays.

As has been mentioned a lot of F2P still have ingame items that require real money to get sooner or in some case be able to get at all.

[Johnny Z]

I have said this before but here it goes again. I have been free to play and now Im not, far from actually, been on both sides of the fence here.

I would say like one other reply said, thats its a good idea to get a pack or hero mech for the cred bonuses and having a Champion is also great for the exp bonuses.

But over all this game is EXTREMELY generous to F2P players. So are many other F2p games though.

Over all the grind in this game could be considered minimal compared to other F2P games.

To have mechs with camo and all the goods, having like I said, Hero's or Champions or Mech Packs then it it costs MC/dollars, but any player can eventually get to compete at top lvl completely free to play and in a relatively short period of time.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 November 2014 - 06:55 AM.

[Zerandir]

So... i play MWO for approx 1 year... I have 1100 games played, thats approx 3 games a day.... and i have 25 mech's, fully upgraded(DHS/ENDO/FF) and equiped plus all the XL and STD engines i need to run those mechs when i want to play them. I own Radar Derp and Seismic modules. And you want to tell me this game is pain to grind.... yea... go play WOT and then come back. We will see if you will still rant about "grind" in MWO.

[AlexEss]

Yeah if you like to see a grind... WarThunder over there says hi.

IN MW:O we can at least pick up a mech once we have the cash.. we do not need to grind out five tiers of mechs before we reach that point.

But yes... If your (the OP) friends are Cod:bloppers i guess they would be utterly bewildered by the concept of the "grind" and since you apparently do not want them to play the game with you i can understand why you turn them off the game.


Now that is not saying this is a rough start... But then again... So are ALL PvP games... Heck the first time i played a "real" match in LoL i was thrashed and thrash-talked in to not going back in to that game for months. Rough starts in a PvP game is pretty much the norm.

[gregsolidus]

Not gonna happen.

[mad kat]

The new rewards system has drastically improved the games economy now and is even more inviting to new players.

Bad example but if you have a hero mech and pull your weight in a match you can now earn around 200k cbills on a loss! on a win its possible to see 300k ish. Scale that back a bit for a new player and even on standard mechs you can earn much more than you did before and it now discourages MWO easy mode which is LRM spam hide at the back. It's better now for new players than it has ever been.

Edited by mad kat, 05 November 2014 - 07:01 AM.

[ToxinTractor]

Big thing I have found with showing new players MWO is the customization. Oh and the weapons. A lot of them dont grasp the concept of heat, a lot of gamers love the idea of having the big "boom" spell/weapon or they love the concept of getting lots of kills (Many modern games encourage this though). Trying to discribe how that translates into MWO makes them usually sigh and go "That doesnt support my style of play" then they choose not to try it.

The ones that have tried it usually get disorientated because of how the mechs turn/cockpit shake from LRMs and ACs. And that frustrates them beyond no measure or how if they buy a light mech early on and they get 1 shotted because said light mech isnt actually fast stock (Firestarters as a example). If they cant get over that they usually A. Rage very hard to the point playing the game isnt fun with them. B. They out right quit the game.

Another issue they have is trying to figure out what to put on there mechs. Once they look at the mechlab for the first time after getting a mech they like/are interested in (Champ mechs and hero mechs leave a lot to be desired) they usually get a good ripe **** punch because many stock mechs are awful but they also want to take out this new toy they grinded for. So that is discouraging (Maybe give new players a "box" of parts?). And at this point they either will accept the fact that they need to grind the trails more or play the crappy lack luster mech.

And then finally they can some times have issue navigating the menus. Mainly trying to find the social tab. (the blinking helps but... maybe putting "friends" beside it would be a good idea.). Oh and it would be a awesome idea to inform new players that they can turn off "arm lock" (Show a demonstration video for new players to see what that means) and third person view and throttle decay. I get those systems are in place for the new players to get a better feel for it, but they should also be informed that those systems can also be turned off at there leisure.

TLDR; MWO has many hurdles for a new player to climb over. These hurdles need to addressed/tweaked/changed in order for MWO to have a proper new player experience and to appeal to more then to players who are willing to suffer/deal with the flaws in the current system.

[Brody319]

ToxinTractor, on 08 November 2014 - 12:07 AM, said:

Big thing I have found with showing new players MWO is the customization. Oh and the weapons. A lot of them dont grasp the concept of heat, a lot of gamers love the idea of having the big "boom" spell/weapon or they love the concept of getting lots of kills (Many modern games encourage this though). Trying to discribe how that translates into MWO makes them usually sigh and go "That doesnt support my style of play" then they choose not to try it.

The ones that have tried it usually get disorientated because of how the mechs turn/cockpit shake from LRMs and ACs. And that frustrates them beyond no measure or how if they buy a light mech early on and they get 1 shotted because said light mech isnt actually fast stock (Firestarters as a example). If they cant get over that they usually A. Rage very hard to the point playing the game isnt fun with them. B. They out right quit the game.

Another issue they have is trying to figure out what to put on there mechs. Once they look at the mechlab for the first time after getting a mech they like/are interested in (Champ mechs and hero mechs leave a lot to be desired) they usually get a good ripe **** punch because many stock mechs are awful but they also want to take out this new toy they grinded for. So that is discouraging (Maybe give new players a "box" of parts?). And at this point they either will accept the fact that they need to grind the trails more or play the crappy lack luster mech.

And then finally they can some times have issue navigating the menus. Mainly trying to find the social tab. (the blinking helps but... maybe putting "friends" beside it would be a good idea.). Oh and it would be a awesome idea to inform new players that they can turn off "arm lock" (Show a demonstration video for new players to see what that means) and third person view and throttle decay. I get those systems are in place for the new players to get a better feel for it, but they should also be informed that those systems can also be turned off at there leisure.

TLDR; MWO has many hurdles for a new player to climb over. These hurdles need to addressed/tweaked/changed in order for MWO to have a proper new player experience and to appeal to more then to players who are willing to suffer/deal with the flaws in the current system.

Several systems have been proposed to assist the first mech grind.
1. Let new players pick any 2 mechs and just give it to them, non hero, and non champion of course.
2. Add a renting system, a new player can pick 2 mechs and they can customize and do what ever else they want as if it was theirs (cept skill up). then when the trial is up, strip the mech of everything and put it back in the store. If they like the mech they can just buy it and load it up like they had before. If they didn't all that equipment is still theirs and they can use it on another mech.
3. cut engine prices down a bit, thats where most of the cost for new players is (assuming they go Is and not clanner), they are really ******* expensive for no real reason, also they don't accurately tell you what the speed is till you equip them, which can be a pain in the ass with the current mechbay system.
4. Improve the stock mech builds, the current stock build for most mechs doesn't work, almost all of them are useless builds. So how about you give some mechs Endo, give others double, and others should have both automatically. It may not be lore friendly, but this game isn't very lore friendly anymore.

[Kiiyor]

Lily from animove, on 03 November 2014 - 02:44 AM, said:

Its not even that grindy, and its not expensive, lol, you should probably go out and play other f2p games to get in touch what "grindy" in other games really means

Here here! Cough *world of tanks* cough.

OP, you don't have to spend money, but some things are worth it. Some of the starter packages are great value, and if you play regularly, premium time is a nice investment.

If you find a mech you really like, a hero or champ variant, or one of the packages, can get you a great c-bill earner. My FireBrand has financed a large portion of my giant stompy robotting, and I love it.

I'm probably biased though, as I've thrown far more cash at this game than any other I've played, and I don't regret it.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I lost count at about a dozen gamers I got into the game. They all quit. Its too much for a noob with being tossed into the slaughter from the start. Witnessed new players on their first few drops meeting names we all know here in matches. No chance at all. You cannot learn in a few minutes every match cycle and the keyboard wont allow us to tech anything.

PGI needs to rethink this crap.

[Zerberus]

Praslek2, on 03 November 2014 - 12:37 AM, said:

I have roommates. Sometimes those roommates ask me what games I play, and MWO is one of the names I respond with.

Then they ask me if it's worth playing, and how much it costs, and I'm forced to tell them, "No, don't play MWO. It's too expensive and grindy for a new player to get into it. Maybe in the future it'll be better, but right now, don't do it."

When I have to tell my roommates, who are a bunch of guys that play videogames in most of their free time, that they should not play MWO, something is not right with how things are implemented.

Feature suggestion: reassess the monetization strategy for MWO and make informed decisions about changes based on the data available and, more importantly, designed to capture a wider audience, not exclusively the whales that this game is currently designed to harpoon.

I can't stress that last part enough. If your whales aren't extinct yet, they will be soon enough, based on the trend of overhunting them in every free-to-play title that exists. It's time to start fishing and stop whaling.

TL;DR:

I don`t have much money, or much time, but I want`s everything NAO!!!

Until you lower the prices, I`ll keep lying to my freinds about the game`s actual price (which is zero$ x time invested = 0$), instead of at least trying to get them to play and make an informed decision for themselves. I obviously haven`t played WoT, or I would actually understand what a "grind" is and high prices are.

You see, I think my friends are all too stupid to make informed decisions on products for themselves, and therefore I lie to them so that they won`t consider products that I personally (preport to) use myself.

And that`s why I have to "block" my roommates from trying the game and making their own decisions, becasue I know everything better. And to prove it, I`m going to start a post that assumes that a company that has been doing this professionally for longer than I have been allowed to use the internet unsupervised has absolutely no clue about their own sales metrics, which I on the other hand have lying here in a 450 page spreadsheet with a detailed analysis of all the pros and cons , and lowering prices is universally positive according to my assessment.

_______

Now here are some REAL facts for you:

You can own EVERYTHING in teh game with the exception of hero /champion mechs and other premium content for about 150$, the cost of mechbays is about 1$ /each, and they are the only thing at all that one arguably "must" pay for (on the other hand, there are hundreds of players that have mastered numerous mechs on just the 4 stock mechbays, and every few months there tends to be some way of getting one for free

The grind is significantly less than many, possibly most F2P games out there, and unlike most other F2P games, there is no P2W option in MWO. These are the 2 main factors that turn players OFF from F2P games, and both are less prominent in mWO that most other F2P titles..
_________________

But of course you don`t need to let you friends know that until PGI lowers it`s prices to the point where you don`t have to skimp on a snickers bar just to buy a mechbay.

How you can contiinue to refer to yourself as a "friend" or contributing member of this community while acting in this fashion is entirely beyond me.

And as a final passing note: If you`re financially /educationally still in such a dismal place that you have "roommates", you probably shouldn`t be spending money on PC games at all, but should be either doing something for the multiple thousands of dollars you paid in tuition (or conned someone else into paying for you), or looking for ways to acquire the vocational skills required to improve your income above the poverty level. For example learnming to weld takes just a few months, pays 14$/hr at the most basic entry level, and is almost guaranteed to find you decent employment within just a few weeks after certification, literally anywhere in the world.

NOW: If you were telling them about things like the steep learning curve, the much slower pace than a typical FPS, and the (formerly extremely) hostile community that often likes to **** on n00bs instead of hellping them, your post would have actually had a leg to stand on. But, since your "I want everything cheap, NAO!!!!!!!" was blinding you to the issues the game actually has, you completely omitted any references to the games actualy issues, and supplanted them all with a single issue who`s actual cause is in fact entirely in your hands: how much money you can spend.

But that is not something PGI or any of us can fix. Most of us already paid our dues to society in some way , shape, or form, and that`s why we earn enough to spend more than you can, and do. You eventually will, too.

Edited by Zerberus, 08 November 2014 - 03:29 AM.

[F4T 4L]

Clint Steel, on 05 November 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

The one thing I would like them to change is Premium Time, I won't buy it the way it works now. If I could buy it in number of matches as opposed to number of days I would

Yeah, maybe you would.. but doubtless countless other folk would start innumerable whine threads about the lack of value (regardless of the cost per match).

[The Wakelord]

Mercules, on 03 November 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

No one is forcing you to say that. You have come to that conclusion on your own and decided to tell people that. Now, it might be true, it might not, but you could just lay out the circumstances of the game and let your friends decide. "Well, it's a long climb to get rolling in the game, but if you wanted to try it I'm willing to show you the basics." You are just feeling negative about the game and "Paying it Forward".

To be fair, it should more be:
"Well, it's a long climb to get rolling in the game, but if you wanted to try it I'm willing to show you the basics ... but I won't play with you, as then we will be in the group queue with near professional-level players."

Which is basically the spiel I give my friends. If they are fine to lose horribly, earn no money, and earn little (real life) experience because they die so fast, then we play in group. Otherwise we just have a VOIP and chat while PUGing in separate games.

[The Wakelord]

mad kat, on 05 November 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

The new rewards system has drastically improved the games economy now and is even more inviting to new players.

Bad example but if you have a hero mech and pull your weight in a match you can now earn around 200k cbills on a loss! on a win its possible to see 300k ish. Scale that back a bit for a new player and even on standard mechs you can earn much more than you did before and it now discourages MWO easy mode which is LRM spam hide at the back. It's better now for new players than it has ever been.

So, if a new player has already mastered the gameplay elements they can earn $200k-300k in a match. Key factor here is that new players haven't mastered the mechs, and are still often coming to grips with the concept of "don't rush in headfirst." Most new players (based on my friends) do under 100 damage and have 0 support items when they play (eg: no AMS, NARC, tag).

[Captain Stiffy]

With the old reward system (not including exploits) it was fine. Now it's too much on the grind side. I used to feel like I could earn enough to buy whatever I wanted but now that's not as true. I had a friend start playing recently and my best advice to him was to save every single last c-bill from the nub bonuses and buy a D-DC.

[F4T 4L]

Johnny Z, on 05 November 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

I have said this before but here it goes again. I have been free to play and now Im not, far from actually, been on both sides of the fence here.

I would say like one other reply said, thats its a good idea to get a pack or hero mech for the cred bonuses and having a Champion is also great for the exp bonuses.

But over all this game is EXTREMELY generous to F2P players. So are many other F2p games though.

Over all the grind in this game could be considered minimal compared to other F2P games.

To have mechs with camo and all the goods, having like I said, Hero's or Champions or Mech Packs then it it costs MC/dollars, but any player can eventually get to compete at top lvl completely free to play and in a relatively short period of time.

Question. What made you cross over?

I have a feeling that mech-bay sparsity was a strong conversion factor in the past. If so the recent spate of freebies might be counter productive, in the sense that f2p folk are much less constrained by 5 or 6 bays than the default 4.

[Blakkstar]

A new player with the cadet bonus and garage slots gets a good month or so of free content, assuming they buy 3 medium chassis, modify, and Master them. The game will slowly dole out free garage slots if you stick around and play in the events, which is your only real obstacle to continuing. The F2P grind is really not bad all things considered.

Sorry, PGI and paying customers don't necessarily want the free grind to be too comfortable. Garage slots don't keep this game running, and every MMO has an "up or out" model to monetize the player base. Adding 10,000 non-paying players that generate server load and support tickets doesn't help the game. Adding 2000 that contribute does.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Maccasimus, on 03 November 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

It's free and the grind is fine.

rofl best joke Ive seen all week

[Pale Jackal]

Blakkstar, on 08 November 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

Adding 10,000 non-paying players that generate server load and support tickets doesn't help the game. Adding 2000 that contribute does.

Yeah, because word of mouth and popularity never generated any profit.

MWO has certainly improved from its "beta" days, but the new player experience could assuredly be improved. Giving each new player 6 'mech bays rather than 4 wouldn't hurt. I know one of my friends said he stopped playing once he filled his 'mech bays.

[F4T 4L]

Pale Jackal, on 08 November 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

Yeah, because word of mouth and popularity never generated any profit.

Word of mouth might well generate new players.

Something has to convince those f2p-ers to cross over and spend funds in order for PGI to make money. Limited mech-bays and the grind are supposed to do that.