135 replies to this topic

[zortesh]

Popper100, on 06 November 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

Side Nerf: Reduce cockpit shake from LRMs, they are HE rockets, not kinetic rounds shaking you all over the place.

Just think about that........ for a few seconds.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Popper100, on 06 November 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

So let me get this straight. People dislike LRMs because they are used to great effect in indirect fire and with sight lock-on transference? Ok, so why isn't that being looked at?

Because then all the light pilots would freak out that you nerfed scouting to death.

[LORD ORION]

My 8R is not doing well after the patch.... It is back to T5.

Why?
It's a 10% nerf to my damage, while alot of the new quirks have increased the range and damage of incoming fire @ my 8R substantially, when I am self-lockiing and shooting at a decent range to mitigate the enemy's chances of running behind cover.

What this nerf and quirk patch has effecively done is force missile boats to use MORE indirect fire....

So good job, you're going to find out soon you got the exact opposite of what you were crying about. You'll soon see bigger launchers with more ammo, because more indirect fire.

Why? There are mechs that are meant to be LRM boats and people like to play them. If they die when they try and get their own locks, they will stop doing that.

Edited by LORD ORION, 06 November 2014 - 05:34 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

KraftySOT, on 04 November 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

And if you do it for all the weapons, the LRM then reigns supreme again. The other weapons are scary balanced right now, with still ballistics being slightly better (less ammo per ton would help that) than everything else due to the nature of their design.

LRMs should come in just under small lasers and MGs.

LRMs should probably cause damage to the mech firing them.

/thread

[Popper100]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 06 November 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Because then all the light pilots would freak out that you nerfed scouting to death.

Hmm, weighing some scouts who don't want to take Tag/Narc versus the fidelity and fun of an entire game. Tough choice.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Popper100, on 06 November 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

Hmm, weighing some scouts who don't want to take Tag/Narc versus the fidelity and fun of an entire game. Tough choice.

lol yeah you think the whining is great NOW

All those LRM whiners have to do is learn to play. Thats so hard?

It really IS that simple. I run atlases dire wolves, I mostly brawl in my Atlases, why am I not a LRM whiner?

I dont have a DDC, I dont mount AMS AND I dont whine about LRMs.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 06 November 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

LORD ORION, on 06 November 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

My 8R is not doing well after the patch.... It is back to T5.

Why?
It's a 10% nerf to my damage, while alot of the new quirks have increased the range and damage of incoming fire @ my 8R substantially, when I am self-lockiing and shooting at a decent range to mitigate the enemy's chances of running behind cover.

What this nerf and quirk patch has effecively done is force missile boats to use MORE indirect fire....

So good job, you're going to find out soon you got the exact opposite of what you were crying about. You'll soon see bigger launchers with more ammo, because more indirect fire.

Why? There are mechs that are meant to be LRM boats and people like to play them. If they die when they try and get their own locks, they will stop doing that.

Thats what ill be doing, taking the direct fire weapons off and adding more ammo while sticking in the group

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

I got one kill, did 218 damage woo mainly cause my right arm is in a cast atm

So unbelievably OP XD

[Popper100]

zortesh, on 06 November 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Just think about that........ for a few seconds.

Well, I guess I'll take this in a disbelieving light. It is simple physics with regards to this game. A kinetic round will hit a side and act upon the gyros and leg position on that side and that side alone. Where as there are two factors for a missile barrage. The first is that the blast from the missile acts upon the side it hits but also to a lesser degree on the opposite side, creating a solid backward force rather than a biased force. Two is that the rarity of hitting one side alone is enough to create balancing forces that would largely shake the mech, but not throw off balance or aim since there is not enough biased force or brute force to move the mech. I judge this based on the damage, which is half of an AC/2 per rocket.

[Telmasa]

Halcyon201, on 04 November 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

Not sure if trolling, or sarcastic...

You're proving my point in my previous post.

KraftySOT, on 05 November 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

Campwarrior online, or Sitzkrieg ™ as I call it...is boring as ****.

Get red of the LRM entirely, and instantly everyone brawls. Thats the problem. The LRM is forcing a type of gameplay that is boring, and is driving away players.

Not everybody playing this game wants it to become Call of Duty: Mech Edition.

Running around willy nilly brawling with min/max loadouts without having to pay heed to attacks from afar is, in a word, LAME.

LRMs have a good half-dozen direct counters to their effectiveness in a game.

People don't just hide from LRMs, they hide from taking fire at range - which can be done with ballistics (not just gauss rifles) and lasers (PPCs and/or ER large laser builds).

You're making a serious error in overexaggerating the blame and how it rests solely upon LRMs, and trying to advocate "deathbrawl" gameplay on top of it.

I for one am sick and tired of:
the massive deathballs,
the endless brawling maps (seriously, we only have 2 maps that have any kind of real "range" to them, Caustic and Alpine),
and the min/max brawling, borderline-cheeser builds (and freakin' artillery spam!) that goes along with it.


You and every other mechwarrior has been given plenty of tools to counteract the use of LRMs, and not just a few extra tidbits of help along the way - it is time to stop complaining about it.

[zortesh]

Lrms are weak, heck they were weak before the nerf.
lets do a breakdown of the pros and cons


Pros:
Indirect fire
screenshake
relatively heat efficient.
Good for killing newbs.
Decent vs hill humpers

Cons:
cannot effectively torso twist and fire.
Min range.
Can have a enemy in los and within range, but also be unable to hit that enemy due to terrain.
Can be completely negated by massed ams or two ecm mechs.
Range from decent to terrible based on map.
Except for two maps, and argueably only 1, there are map zones where if the fight happens lrms will basically be completely redundant.
Terrible for killing experienced players.
Require a teammate, or the lrmboat to put themselves in the open and in the firing line until the lrms land.
Terrible vs corner popping.
Require huge ammo investment to be remotely effective, which means it usally needs a xl engine on a mech packed with explosives.
Slow projectile speed.
Only weapon in the game where you have a warning and time before your hit.

@popper
I more meant that kinetic rounds would be designed to penetrate not transfer momentum, whilst the explosive lrm warheads do damage via concussive force, hence the lrms should and do have more screenshake.

Of anything massive lrm volleys would be the most likely thing to knock over a mech or render its pilot unconscious. (This should most definitely not be in game thou.)

Edited by zortesh, 06 November 2014 - 06:20 PM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Nyuuu, on 06 November 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Thank you for writing all that down KraftySOT, there is just so much truth in this that will of course be ingnored and talked down by the hypocritical lrm crowd.

I just felt the terrible effect this has on new players right when I started playing. Went through my first 25 matches, ok I am doing bad but that is because I have to learn.
Bought the Jagermech S from my cadet bonus and at that moment I really started noticing how much fun is ruined in the game thanks to lrms. The mate that started with me quit since he just couldn't stand it anymore at this point and I guess I would have almost went the same way. Buying GXP with MC and spending my very first earned 6mil MC on Radar Dep is the only thing that somehow stopped me from that....
And from the very first round onwards that I finally had radar depreviation on I was actually having fun. It is just sickening.... 3 mechs later I got myself a Stalker to "get revenge" and just became part of the problem.

In all the time I have spent in forums for the online games I stayed with over the years there was always one noticeable constant.
When something was called more effective / easier to use than similar options by almost anyone with a grain of common knowledge it was prominently defended by the one phrase "It is not overpowered, you just have to adapt to it"
If you have to adapt to one specific thing while you don't have to adapt to all other hostile options that simply makes it overpowered.

Lets illustrate that with a very simple example.
You are in a freshly bought Shadowhawk 2H with the famous 2xAC5 1xAC2 build.
You have a hill higher than your mech in front of you allowing you to look out, get a salvo out and get back in fast. No modules equiped.

At the other side of that hill, out in the open, there are in 5 scenarios 5 differently equipped long range Jagermechs at a distance of around 500m.
1) A 2xGaus Jager. You look over, fire a salvo, are back in before he can charge, no damage taken
2) A 2xUAC5 Jager. You look out, fire a salvo, are back in before his shells arrive. No damage taken.
3) A 2x ERPPC Firebrand. Same as above.
4) A 3xER Large Firebrand. You look out, fire a salvo, are back in with only minor damage thanks to the delay he has with reacting, aiming, firing and laser duration. Minimal damage taken
5) A 2xLRM15 + Tag Jager. You look out, fire a salvo, get back in and all his missles connect thanks to the 2+1 second decay time. You have 20 points less on your armor.

So, lets recap.
In all scenarios you were facing the same chassis, all having a roughly similar dps, all being in their effective range.
Do you need to specially adapt to an enemy armed with Gaus Rifles? No
Do you need to specially adapt to an enemy armed with normal Ballistics? No
Do you need to specially adapt to an enemy armed with Lasers? No
Do you need to specially adapt to an enemy armed with PPCS? No
Are you forced to stay in cover for the rest of the time the guy is looking at you thanks to him running LRMs? Yes

4 options where you don't have to "adapt your playstyle", one where you have to "adapt" - i.e. never showing your face unless you enjoy having it crushed. Interesting.....

im sry man but thats pretty laughable. you play peek a boo to not get hit by lrms? my ass. you play peekaboo to not get hit by gauss/ac's. ya ppcs are kinda a joke at long range because of slow travel time but lrms move so slow you have plenty of time to peek out take a shot with lasers/gauss/ac then pull back to cover long before the lrms travel the distance.

get over it lrms are a #$$#$ up weapon compared to all others. they either are overpoweringly good or total #$# where you waste 3/4 or more of your ammo into the side of a building or a hill. me personally? im always watchin out for dual gauss boats and ac kings. by far i am more concerned with high velocity direct fire weapons then slow moving indirect fire missles.

really man really? could you paint a more inaccurate picture?

zortesh, on 06 November 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

Lrms are weak, heck they were weak before the nerf.
lets do a breakdown of the pros and cons


Pros:
Indirect fire
screenshake
relatively heat efficient.
Good for killing newbs.
Decent vs hill humpers

Cons:
cannot effectively torso twist and fire.
Min range.
Can have a enemy in los and within range, but also be unable to hit that enemy due to terrain.
Can be completely negated by massed ams or two ecm mechs.
Range from decent to terrible based on map.
Except for two maps, and argueably only 1, there are map zones where if the fight happens lrms will basically be completely redundant.
Terrible for killing experienced players.
Require a teammate, or the lrmboat to put themselves in the open and in the firing line until the lrms land.
Terrible vs corner popping.
Require huge ammo investment to be remotely effective, which means it usally needs a xl engine on a mech packed with explosives.
Slow projectile speed.
Only weapon in the game where you have a warning and time before your hit.

@popper
I more meant that kinetic rounds would be designed to penetrate not transfer momentum, whilst the explosive lrm warheads do damage via concussive force, hence the lrms should and do have more screenshake.

Of anything massive lrm volleys would be the most likely thing to knock over a mech or render its pilot unconscious. (This should most definitely not be in game thou.)

QFT

Edited by Mellifluer, 06 November 2014 - 09:04 PM.

[Vaderman]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 04 November 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Hey the main reason Ive been using LRMs lately isnt even the damage or anything that they do; Ive shattered my right elbow a number of times and have had 6 surgeries on it over the past 4 years. I have a lesion on my Ulnar nerve and tomorrow am having my elbow replaced.

Now if youve never broken the elbow Im betting you dont realize quite how painful moving your wrist is when the elbow is damaged (because all the muscle impulses go through the elbow). Using the LRM doesnt require high wrist movement and until they finally FIX my elbow is really the only way I can PLAY this game.

Remove that and I cant play without blackouts in matches.

I hope you feel better bro, and please don't think I'm making light of your condition but...

Did you just admit that LRMs are so effective you can play them while crippled?

Also the problem with LRMs is that both sides are right, in a way. LRM's are individually ok, but they're not an individual weapon. When you take LRM fire it's freaking hundreds of them at a time on occassion. That, my friends, is ridiculous. Indirect fire is at the root of all the problems with this particular weapon system.

Edited by Vaderman, 06 November 2014 - 09:50 PM.

[wanderer]

And so, teamwork has been nerfed yet again.

Meaning the impetus to mass-fire them in still larger numbers has been increased.

Seriously. Slow the ROF down, increase the missile damage accordingly. What makes the average player go into rant-rage mode is being spammed by constant streams of FWOOSHWHOOSHWHOOSHWHOOSH. Kill that. Problem solved.

Go ahead. Add 50% to the reload times on all LRMs and increase damage to 1.4 or so. Even the smallest launchers at that point have about a 5 second reload, never mind decently sized ones like an LRM 15.

[Zen Idiot]

all this over a tenth of a point of damage...
now its a LRM 10 instead of a LRM 11. no one would have noticed if they omitted it from the patch notes.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Vaderman, on 06 November 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

Did you just admit that LRMs are so effective you can play them while crippled?

Did you just admit you want to make the game less available to ppl who ARE crippled just to boost your epeen?

Cause Id think that would be a bad argument to make

wanderer, on 06 November 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

What makes the average player go into rant-rage mode is being spammed by constant streams of FWOOSHWHOOSHWHOOSHWHOOSH. Kill that. Problem solved.

Followed by killing DAKKADAKKADAKKA then PEWPEWPEW then whatever sound gauss make.

I swear ppl wont be happy till we have no weapons at all lol