30 replies to this topic

[Kilo 40]

sneeking, on 04 November 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:

Most cheesy spammers are clanners and in spite of damage claims just one cheese spammer can crumble an assult before it can reach cover.

Granted that is accurately represented but too many abusing it is a massive fun sink for all non missile users.

What an "Abusive clan cheese spammer" looks like

[Lyoto Machida]

El Bandito, on 04 November 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

See, this is one reason why pugs cry about lack of LRM counterplay. Everyone only thinks about himself, not the team. Pug mentality is the chief issue in this LRM story, rather than the weapon itself.

I rarely die to LRMs as well, but I gladly jump onto my STK-5S in AMS Awareness Thursdays, even if I don't get C-Bill reward for AMS coverage. Now with the AMS ammo buff, I am equipping it on all my mechs--except certain Clan mechs with hardpoints I cannot afford to lose.

Don't worry...I don't take AMS in our unit 12 man drops either. Nobody minds there either. I do take AMS when the mech has 2+ but a single unit is not worth it to me.

[PhoenixFire55]

El Bandito, on 04 November 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

Pug mentality is the chief issue in this LRM story, rather than the weapon itself.

It is a chief issue in every "insert whatever here is OP" story. Problem is that PGI listens to PUGs and makes their game for PUGs, i.e. weapon balance is based on PUGs, which is dumb in the first place. LRMs are useless in competitive play and same time dominant in PUGs. Why? Because stupid.

[El Bandito]

Lyoto Machida, on 05 November 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:

Don't worry...I don't take AMS in our unit 12 man drops either. Nobody minds there either. I do take AMS when the mech has 2+ but a single unit is not worth it to me.

Why would anyone ever take AMS in 12 mans, where LRMs are not popular in the first place?

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

BAP range 360
CAP range 150
= Clan ECM half as effective as IS ECM in a CW match.

for a mixed pug match this have little issue, for faction vs faction and comp play...
why do i even bother beginning this post...

im out.

[Dauntless Blint]

Poptimus Rhyme, on 05 November 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

BAP range 360
CAP range 150
= Clan ECM half as effective as IS ECM in a CW match.

for a mixed pug match this have little issue, for faction vs faction and comp play...
why do i even bother beginning this post...

im out.

Ah because clan have more direct fire dps?IS compensate with indirect and perk's?

[Kilo 40]

Poptimus Rhyme, on 05 November 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

BAP range 360
CAP range 150

They are both 360. Not just BAP.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Halcyon201, on 04 November 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

I've tried to raise support to change indirect locks with two separate threads, one including tons of diagrams and fully thought out bonuses for suggested changes.

Both threads eventually got bombarded by people claiming LRMs aren't OP and I should feel bad for suggesting changes for LRMs at all.

Sometimes, you just can't win against people who crave cheesy mechanics and uninteresting gameplay.

THIS RIGHT HERE, the blind reverence for the utter mess that is the current implementation of LRMs is beyond my comprehension. It's not rewarding to play because while you get decent numbers it's hit or miss, like i feel like I did great and only get 400 damage and others i felt mediocre and got like 800 damage. Even when you do good it's mostly an empty feeling to me because i didn't even have to try, like I could watch tv while playing an lrm boat and not really reduce my effectiveness much. It just feels cheap and empty to me and I feel bad for the enemy team I am inflicting this crappy gameplay unto, forcing them to hill hump for their dear lives while i safely sip coffee behind a hill 600m away.

[Krivvan]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 05 November 2014 - 03:56 AM, said:

THIS RIGHT HERE, the blind reverence for the utter mess that is the current implementation of LRMs is beyond my comprehension. It's not rewarding to play because while you get decent numbers it's hit or miss, like i feel like I did great and only get 400 damage and others i felt mediocre and got like 800 damage. Even when you do good it's mostly an empty feeling to me because i didn't even have to try, like I could watch tv while playing an lrm boat and not really reduce my effectiveness much. It just feels cheap and empty to me and I feel bad for the enemy team I am inflicting this crappy gameplay unto, forcing them to hill hump for their dear lives while i safely sip coffee behind a hill 600m away.

You're absolutely correct. As I and many others have repeated, the problem with LRMs are that they're disgustingly easy to use well in random games against terrible players (albeit inconsistently), yet when it comes down to actually playing against good players, they become useless.

LRMs need a change in mechanics where it's much harder for them to be used well, but rewarding enough that they actually have a use at higher levels.

Possible solutions include quicker non-locked direct fire when needed or wire-guided missiles where you manually guide them to targets (and they can be used to hit targets behind cover without locks or sight, if you're good enough).

And what scares me is how much of the more tangible "teamwork" items in the game seem to revolve around this weapon with broken and boring mechanics, and by extension, people's concepts of what teamwork means gets warped ("every team needs ECM!", "BAP means LRMs will be OP!", "Lights are all spotters that need TAG!", "We need more light players, so reward TAG and NARC!")

Edited by Krivvan, 05 November 2014 - 05:26 AM.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Krivvan, on 05 November 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

You're absolutely correct. As I and many others have repeated, the problem with LRMs are that they're disgustingly easy to use well in random games against terrible players (albeit inconsistently), yet when it comes down to actually playing against good players, they become useless.

LRMs need a change in mechanics where it's much harder for them to be used well, but rewarding enough that they actually have a use at higher levels.

Possible solutions include quicker non-locked direct fire when needed or wire-guided missiles where you manually guide them to targets (and they can be used to hit targets behind cover without locks or sight, if you're good enough).

And what scares me is how much of the more tangible "teamwork" items in the game seem to revolve around this weapon with broken and boring mechanics, and by extension, people's concepts of what teamwork means gets warped ("every team needs ECM!", "BAP means LRMs will be OP!", "Lights are all spotters that need TAG!", "We need more light players, so reward TAG and NARC!")

The core of that is from the absolutely hit or miss (They can do well or do horribly) nature of lrms that is largely based on factors beyond player control such as teammate and enemy mech loadouts and terrain/maps. PGI hasn't really changed any maps except for like boundary changes since MWO began so that leaves equipment/loadout items to be looked at. The presence or lack of ECM is the biggest problem with lrm balance and the first thing to be reworked.

[PappySmurf]

Artgathin (PGI seems to think that reducing the damage of LRMs will reduce the number used. In fact, the inverse is true: People now carry more to make up the difference.)
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A lot of us tried to tell PGI this but they don't listen to any reason except (THE NERF BAT IS KING) I suggested this to fix LRM SPAM.

Make the R button individual to each mech so players cannot get all the targeting information by just pushing R and everyone converges or LRMS/CLRMS the poor player to death. Only allow a group targeting signal IF!!! a command mech or a scout mech with group targeting module is in the battle.

If your scout or command mech is killed then its back to LOS and individual targeting for the reaming group members. Also a 10-30% arc reduction would help allowing players more cover on these maps.

But Hellll im just farting in the wind thinking PGI will balance things right. Look at the bright side just cower under a hill and never attack until all the missile boats run out of missiles or charge in to the enemy line and go down in a flame of CLRM?LRM GLORY.

Edited by PappySmurf, 05 November 2014 - 03:44 PM.