13 replies to this topic

[Seelenlos]

Hello,

any reasons why from 150 to 350 and not 35 or 3500 or at all 300000 ?

Because some always go the same direction and not learn that an ECM Unit can "counter" them from behind in their "back"?

You may help your 2 baby players but have u thought about the impact on unit vs unit fighting?

Did u even thought about setting ECM then back to its standard camouflage function like the old days to balance your change?

Whose demand or idea was that?
Any pollings on that change or was it only your own decision?

I why do i write it at all?


Regards

[Mitsuragi]

Hi Seelenlos,

Here are a couple points on this change:

1) ECM can be used to position yourself on the map for a strategic advantage. TAG's effective range is 750 meters (clan) or less. This means anything between 750 -> 1200 (max LRM range?) is completely unlockable and will not be detected on the mini map. This allows units under ECM cover to reposition themselves on the map without fear of lock-on fire harassment.

2) Increasing "Active Probe" range to 350 meters means that an "AP" equipped mech may be in front of or behind the ECM mech and negate the effect of ECM. If the distance were any less then the "AP" equipped mech would have to engage the ECM mech, and the unit with it, directly. This is particularly important if the enemy's ECM is supporting from the rear of their formation and the friendly "AP" mech is also supporting as this places the ECM vs "AP" mechs quite a distance from each other.

3) ECM was never meant to counter brawling engagements. With a lesser range then Streak SRM's and LRM's cannot be used in a brawl without twice as many counter measures to attempt to cover the ECM range. Think of ECM as circle A and "AP" mechs as B and C. You can see how you have to overlap the entire ACTIVE battlefield with "AP" to catch the ECM mech and counter that advantage. As it stands now, "AP" has the larger range so ECM must avoid it actively or be countered.

[Willard Phule]

First of all, please understand that I absolutely appreciate it.

Best guess is that in the Solo Queue, the whole ECM/LRM combo was completely ruining the game for a while there.

Yes, we all know....TAG, NARC, Modules, blah blah blah....it works in the Group Queue when you've got guys on voice comms that have worked out their builds with a team in mind.

In the Solo Queue, you can't really depend on anyone to bring anything. If you want ECM, the only way to guarantee it is to bring your own ECM. The BAP change gives EVERYONE the opportunity to get the counter-ECM bonus by getting sort of close to the ECM mech.

AND, it also gets rid of the whole ECM/LRM thing.

Edited by Willard Phule, 05 November 2014 - 02:53 PM.

[Grendel408]

Maybe it's to help detect all those lone pilots in the end running and hiding to protect their precious k/d ratio?

BAP's a tool... use it.

[Seelenlos]

Hi,
thanks for your explanation. Still it is NOT ok!
How do you come to a number like 360?
Did you made a database comparission?
On which fact do you changed it to 360 and not 250?
250 ist still a lot against the 150 ECM-cover.
And I do not know but AP can be straighten to by some equipements (2). Do you also give that bonus now to ECM? Surly not, bevause most of our player base (98%) never rtfm or learn in game, when some "one" calls, "look at the back", or "go water" ..
As long as that is me, i want get it back to the post specification, or you sit down to mathemaician to calculate the right numbers for MWO, but just sayin 150 vs 360 + (10% Bonuses) .... nah, even a losy programer gives more attention to the maths and numbers here than this way you've done it!
So yiou have my Veto
Regards

Edited by Seelenlos, 06 November 2014 - 05:36 AM.

[GenJack]

I veto your veto.

BAP is now worth it, and not op or underp, while ecm retains its very useful abilities.

[whitelightshadow]

Yeh this will be the death of ECM as we all expected it has finally come... Why get ECM if you can out-range and out-counter ECM with AP. So what are you going to give to us to counter AP?

Wasnt the original idea behind AP to make the ECM mech visible? NOT counter the ECM? ECM is suppose to counter ECM. Now you can just make ALL mechs ECM capable.

Now you have made this game a brawler game if and that is a big IF the teams are balanced otherwise one team will be able to target and use LRMs and the other not... And have seen a lot of these games recently...

Edited by whitelightshadow, 06 November 2014 - 08:56 AM.

[Tim East]

GenJack, on 06 November 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

I veto your veto.

BAP is now worth it, and not op or underp, while ecm retains its very useful abilities.

I used BAP before it was improved, even on mechs that didn't mount streaks. This is less about making BAP worth taking (it already was) and more about making ECM less mandatory on chassis that can equip it. Think of it as a much-needed ECM nerf more than a BAP buff in terms of game balance, since the buff specifically affects only that piece of equipment. Is it precisely how I would have nerfed ECM? No. But it is an improvement in my opinion, as previously if you had a mech that could mount ECM you were almost obligated to take it, and now it is more of a decision based on the role you expect that mech to fill and how far away from the enemy you plan to be.

[Seelenlos]

BAP was always good.
With Module it counter ecm at 180 or 200 meters !!!
With Command it stretch it to 250 (i think, dont know).
It can also fasten the targeting!

ECM can only cover!
They NERFED it that you can now see who is ecmed!
No you can also counter it with in 360, NARC, PPC, another ECM !

Hmmm, i had 5 in maths.... still my stomach tells me the maths here suck...
Does anybody else feels the bad feeling i have about this ECM nerf?

[Seelenlos]

To be just i played now 5 matches with FATLAS.

It sucked, so send me an email when u have changed it BACK devs.

Elite Dangerous is now again better than MWO.

Bye bye

[NetherlightWolf]

So your rage quitting because you can't lumber your DDC in the open with impunity because there might be a lighter mech around with cap/bap that nulls your ecm and leaves you open for lrm punishment.

Okay I normally pilot a dire wolf to which an atlas ddc is not only faster, but at least *gets* the ecm option.

When you decide to come back. Try fixing your tactics instead of expecting the game to cater to you.

[Wesxander]

NEWS FLASH BAP IS WELL EXCEEDING 350 range for jamming. Try range 500 on some the maps. Will fall back to shield my team and still be inside bap with the bap player more than 400 away. I don't know why you would think having a bap that functions half the range of lrms as balancing it is not. Don't tell me some baps can't jamming past 400 either I have measured it.
As for the stupid remarks that you can put out a net to find ecm mechs it's the opposite. If they are the last ones left instead of engaging closer they will fight from the 800 range. I guess if I can't shield my unit because of BAP jamming me from 500 it's off to long range sniping instead of protecting units with it.

[VXJaeger]

Is there AMS that can effectively resist LRM180/240-lances centralized steelrain? Would come handy after BAP's ECM-counterbuff.

[Seelenlos]

Shiverwolf, on 06 November 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

So your rage quitting because you can't lumber your DDC in the open with impunity because there might be a lighter mech around with cap/bap that nulls your ecm and leaves you open for lrm punishment.

Okay I normally pilot a dire wolf to which an atlas ddc is not only faster, but at least *gets* the ecm option.

When you decide to come back. Try fixing your tactics instead of expecting the game to cater to you.

Don*t know if u understand the concept and misconcept:
Normaly when u give some one a plus, u must also give him a minus or the other side also a plus.
This mostly happens on data u capture, and these days with sql and oracles u do it with "SELECT "F.u.c.k. O.f.f." FROM Humanity" then u do some statistics, then u (maybe ask people if they also think so) make +/- linked changes.

I did not see any of the above points.
He stated some explanation i did not even understood. If he does not want (mostly) ecm lights to bring the bad boys in front of enemy, then he must make the lights more vurnelable to hits (better net code), that will teach lights their recon role.
A FATLAS has its full reason to do it, he is the COMMAND-mech! Thas why it is so deadly in the hands of a real commander bringing the team in the browl-range.

Now making even this impossible, making the game obsolate in the vicinity of clans.

So u tell me i should lean tactics? maybe u should reread some Battletech manuals.

What PGI should do is to change ECM to what it was, in the last year.
It did hide the team and the enemy. Then players learn to install BAPs, TAGs, NARCs and PPC on their Mechs and play it the way all of them were intended.

But this way they try to fix a problem they started themselves the day they altered the ECM-function.

They should also write a decent ECM-Manual or do u see any manuals on the forums or on the fist web-page mwomercs.com?

They should also install an ECM-tutoril the testing-grounds...

That way they never again need to explain why ECM is installed the way it is in MWO like in BT.

have fun with ur advantage till they reset it the way u start the next anti-thread like me

Edited by Seelenlos, 07 November 2014 - 02:48 AM.