47 replies to this topic

[evil713]

Ok there needs to be a bit of fine tuning on this.

BAP should not cancel my ecm. It should defeat my ecm.

I explain, right now BAP will turn off my ecm if I get within a certain distance.

This is a bit overkill. BAP should act like a counter yes, but only to the mech using it. However in MWO everybody has C3, so I propose this.

1. BAP only works on the mech that equips it.

2. BAP counters ecm only on the mech that equips it.

3. Whatever the mech with BAP targets is considered not covered by ecm. Other friendly mechs can target the BAP target normally due to C3.

4. BAP equipped mech will not share targeting data if under enemy ecm.

This change makes scouting more important and a reward similar to TAG should be implemented, acquirable only if that target is under ECM.

The range and targeting speed bonuses would remain as it Is now.


Addendum:

ECM now uses levels similar to clan targeting computers.

ECM levels 1 to 5, each level adds 60m to the jamming radius, level 5 capping at 300.

ECM level 1 weighs 1.5 tons, each level adds 1 ton to the weight capping at 5.5 tons.

BAP does not scale, it is absolute. higher levels of ECM do not affect BAP.

Addendum 2:

Stealth Armor is added to game stats are as follows:

Stealth armor has same armor value as standard armor.

Stealth armor takes 8 internal slots.

Stealth armor adds a 20% penalty to heat loss. Heat loss only happens when guardian ecm is active in disrupt mode.

Stealth armor only makes mech untargetable when in a guardian ecm field in disrupt mode.

New mechanic for ecm. Ecm will instead of making unit unlockable will mess with enemy rangefinder.

Rangefinder will alter according to rank of ecm within +- of ecm level, so an ecm rank 1 will affect rangefinder by plus or minus 60 meters within that field.

BAP TAG and UAV will counter this effect, NARC will not.

This has the effect of tabletop affecting accuracy tables ingame, generating misses.

Option to be added to either set/lock rangefinder or turn rangefinder off. If off will lock guns to infinity range and disable LRM use.

Edited by evil713, 06 November 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[WarZ]

Then ECM should affect ONLY the mech using it. There should be no "umbrella" of protection for teammates. It works both ways.

[Mcgral18]

Perhaps we should fix the Jesus Box, either make it cost 1 heat per second for the Null Sig, including removing that feature from the entire 180M bubble, or simply remove that feature entirely.


You can't fix one without touching the other.

[Glythe]

Well the Jesus box took a hit today but it was a well deserved hit.

I still think we need size 1-7 ECM boxes like targeting computers. Do you want to give the team 300m of protection? Man up and wear the size 7 ECM. If you want ECM for one then just buy the 1.5 ton device.

[evil713]

ok if we treat ECM like clan targeting computers to define radius (which I think is a great idea) im thinking 7 levels might be pushing it for up to 300m.

so what I said at the top, +BAP dosent scale it is absolute in its ecm defeating. But lets make it 5 levels for ecm at 60 meter intervals starting at 1.5 tons and adding a ton for every level, so ecm 5 is 5.5 tons and expands to 300 meters.

[MadPanda]

"Omg I can't run my light mech into the enemy swarm and be annoying little *****. Please lets fix this so I can do that again!"

No. L2p.

[KamikazeRat]

i do agree that BAP is going to kill ECM which is going to bring about the LRMpocolypse!

ok slight exaggeration, but, yeah, ECM has far too many counters, i think having BAP breakthrough ECM, but not allow transmission of that ECM'd target if you are still in ECM bubble, is a good balance.

because on top of BAP, you have TAG, NARC, UAV, PPC and lets not forget ECM itself, can all shutdown ECM.

i also do like the suggestion of tiers of ECM coverage. level 1 is mechstealth, level 5 is big-A-bubble.

but the idea i REALLY like...is McGral's: HEAT, so simple. when active ECM creates just enough heat that you limit cooling. well balanced, it wouldn't impact snipers, but the ECM bubbles running around the warzone would probably want to shut it off.

[Pale Jackal]

ECM is godly. BAP is now an effective counter to a single 'mech carrying ECM.

I'm all for making BAP's counter ECM have a lower radius if you're willing to pay more tonnage and slots for better ECM.

Like someone else said, I've always had the position that the 1.5 ton ECM should only conceal 1 'mech... and it's still amazing at that tonnage.

[Khobai]

ECM should only stealth the mech its equipped on. Thats how it shouldve been from day 1.

If mechs without ECM want stealth they should have access to a passive sensor mode, which would be like an inferior version of ECM, that comes with the downside of turning off your targeting and target sharing.

[evil713]

theres a difference between effective and useful.

if ecm could be mounted on any mech then I might agree that bap is on par, but ecm can only be mounted on a few mechs. for those mechs to have a piece of equipment rendered deadweight is rude.

what if counter ecm was removed from guardian ecm and made a separate module.

[LORD TSARKON]

Glythe, on 05 November 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

Well the Jesus box took a hit today but it was a well deserved hit.

I still think we need size 1-7 ECM boxes like targeting computers. Do you want to give the team 300m of protection? Man up and wear the size 7 ECM. If you want ECM for one then just buy the 1.5 ton device.

I agree with this but then most people in pug games would only get ECM for themselves.... and that can cause pissed off players and situations

for example...

Start a new game.... You see an Atlas DDC pilot by the name of CareOnlyForMyself

You ask if he has an ECM 7 contraption and he says " No.... I HAZ ECM 1 fer MYSELFS.... go FU OFF ... I NEEDZ the LRM AMMOS"

Entire TEam then legs and destroys his ECM...... JUST BECAUSE...

[MadPanda]

evil713, on 05 November 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

theres a difference between effective and useful.

if ecm could be mounted on any mech then I might agree that bap is on par, but ecm can only be mounted on a few mechs. for those mechs to have a piece of equipment rendered deadweight is rude.

what if counter ecm was removed from guardian ecm and made a separate module.

Have you gone totally insane? Ecm being temporary disabled while being 360m from an enemy mech that carries BaP (its not an auto-include btw) makes ecm "deadweight"? Good god, do you even know what makes ecm good? I can't even fathom what you are thinking. I will take comfort in knowing pgi will never implement anything you suggested.

[Golden Vulf]

ECM should only work while the mech with it is stationary!

When a mech with ECM gets near a mech with BAP, everyone on the map should hear the sound of a dog barking.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 05 November 2014 - 05:59 PM.

[evil713]

MadPanda, on 05 November 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

Have you gone totally insane? Ecm being temporary disabled while being 360m from an enemy mech that carries BaP (its not an auto-include btw) makes ecm "deadweight"? Good god, do you even know what makes ecm good? I can't even fathom what you are thinking. I will take comfort in knowing pgi will never implement anything you suggested.

360 meters for BAP ECM disable range is massive in comparison to ecm's 180, as well as the fact that BAP only works on ecm, not mechs covered by ecm, so you cant judge the effective bubble or zero in on a BAP user by seeing which mechs are being effected.

ECM has two uses, protect your team from LRM, and evading notice. and except the atlas it is generally put on the squishy-est of mechs.

in order to cover a team those light mechs need to slow down or stop so there umbrella of protection covers there allies, meaning that a lights natural defense of great speed is neutralized, maxing them dead without ecm.

[Cerlin]

Ecm has been so good for so long this was a long time in coming. Please keep this change. It makes a 1.5 ton item counter an even better item of the same tonnage. That sounds fair to me.

I already carried bap on many of my mechs before this change so im a happy camper.

[evil713]

Except its more like a giant finger pushing my off button than a counter.

Im good with the counter up to the point where its equal to it not better than.

if it was just the mech it was installed on id say it was good. but with C3 inherent to every MechWarrior it makes it too powerful.

it would be like my ecm jamming coming from every mech on the team.

[WM Wraith]

Golden Vulf, on 05 November 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

ECM should only work while the mech with it is stationary!

When a mech with ECM gets near a mech with BAP, everyone on the map should hear the sound of a dog barking.

Please delete your post before Paul sees this....seriously. Don't put it past PGI to nerf ECM with this idea. Delete post. Quickly now. Hurry!

[Kilo 40]

And so begins the wave of "BAP is OP!" threads...

[RalphVargr]

My airplane carried an ALQ-131, and countermeasures detection gear. Guess which worked better?

Hint: 'home on jam".

[terrycloth]

I think it's 360 to give clan streaks full range? Still kind of short for LRMs, so ECM gives plenty of protection against LRMs.

If everyone starts packing BAP then it'll be bad for ECM mechs, although it would still be useful.

If it's too much, though, the first try should probably be adjusting the range back down a little. Coverage area increases as the square of the range and all.