92 replies to this topic

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Appogee, on 11 November 2014 - 02:43 AM, said:

http://dictionary.re...competitive?s=t

Definition 2. And no, it doesn't mean that every Mech you bring to a match is "competitive". A "competitive price" means that that price is not "the best" but is within a bracket of prices which are, to use SuckyJack's word, "viable" in creating sales.

But not every price is "competitive", and nor is every Mech taken into a battle by definition "competitive".

Now please, this is getting beyond time-wasting and into irritating. You don't want to believe Dragons were okay before the quirks? That's fine by me. I'll go with the evidence of my eyes over the course of literally hundreds of matches over the past few months. I shared that experience here for the benefit of everyone.

Others can come to their own conclusions, through whichever means they wish, be that prior prejudice, outdated intel from the metas of days gone by, weighed opinions shared by experienced pilots playing at higher Elo levels, or Ouija Boards. I really don't mind either way.

its incredible how ppl insist on that the Dragon must be bad. I play it since over 18 months and it works to me. Thats what matters to me.

i trust my experience not what ppl say or wether top units carry it to the battlefield.

Let the ppl talk trash. Infact most ofem are just bad pilots or never really bothered with a dragon.

To the" its the lightest Heavy argue:

So is the victor and it owns everything on the battlefield. But i guess many folks wont believe that either.

[NextGame]

I clicked on this thread hoping that Dragon bowling was back, and was disappointed.

[KuroNyra]

I always wanted to love the Dragon and I'd like to take one of the heroes Dragon, problem is I don't know wich one.

Fang or Flame?

[Appogee]

Torgun, on 11 November 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

If you're soloing a Dragon and you focus on the CT if it's not heavily damaged, you're doing it wrong. You should have focused on it's right side torso and err towards hitting the right arm with its' main weapons rather than the CT when you aim. both of them only have fortyish armor.

You are correct. But when you're in a circling fight in a Mech that doesn't turn as tightly, and the Dragon pilot is sensibly shielding his right side, you can't focus fire in that way. Perhaps I should have gone for the left CT and expected that he had an XL which would have cored him anyway, or maybe he then would have switched to the other side and I'd have then had 2X the side torsii armor to get through .

As it was, I thought a series of 30 point Alphas through the CT would be enough to kill him through the CT. However, as it turned out, the high ROF of the quirked 1N meant he got through mine, even though I was spreading the damage well, before I got through his.

I live and learn.

[Appogee]

SuckyJack, on 11 November 2014 - 02:47 AM, said:

The Dragon, before Quirks, was not as good as or comparable to the Jager, the Cata and now the more recent TW. Therefore not competitive to any definition of the word.

If you wanted to talk about why I was wrong then a discourse would have been possible but instead you chose to make a statement of outright dismissal without context or content, which is an insult in of itself and I have fun being a sarcastic jerk when faced with that, easier to just laugh it off. If you need to bring out time spent in MWO and experience with it's history I've been 'enjoying' the game since the closed beta before the founders injection. Got to experience the Dragon when it didn't even have STs that could be hit from the front.

You've been providing anecdotal evidence to your points, that your friends have been cleaning house in Dragons and that you couldn't solo kill a 1N using a sustained DPS build in a Victor with a Burst Front Loaded Damage build. Doing well in a mech or chassis is a very personal matter, a subjective look when one should be looking to objective analysis as to why they are doing well, there are a lot of factors beyond the mech to doing well with that mech including supporting infrastructure of the game itself. As for your problem losing to a Dragon, your statement that you were TTing implies that you were not playing your strengths (vertical mobility and not needing to expose yourself for long periods of time to do damage) against his weaknesses (wide firing lines and needing to stare down the target to do sustained DPS) as to why you lost. Your statement that he was protecting his arm shows he had skill and knew what he was doing as well. The information you provided paints a picture of you putting yourself in an exposed fight and just trying to brute force it by torso twisting, a choice that cost you your CT and what I would call a poor decision.

Not saying you're a bad player but merely that many of us are still running under the old threat assessments we have applied to the Dragons before which leads to mistakes in decision making. Treating the Dragon as a high DPS build that is just as vulnerable places it higher on the priority list as you can deny more firepower from the enemy team by neutering them or disabling them. A good number of low threat mechs now have very threatening builds that have even more glaring weaknesses and are easy to shut down. They just aren't getting treated as being as dangerous as they are.

Anyways, it's been fun. Have a good day!

Edit: Just a quick clarification. Never saying that the Dragons weren't playable (infact before the stat reset the Dragons were my best performers strangely enough) but from a purely objective standpoint, all things being equal, the Dragons were lower than their counterparts when good game design in the direction MWO is leaning in requires Different Yet Equal, which is a huge hurdle to cover. To say that they were competitive before the quirks was factually false.

Ok, glad we got that settled. Have a good one.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

KuroNyra, on 11 November 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

I always wanted to love the Dragon and I'd like to take one of the heroes Dragon, problem is I don't know wich one.

Fang or Flame?

I would prefer the fang any time because it has 4 hardpoints in the arm (2x ac 2x Lazah) Arm mounted weapons are awesome.

I use my fang with 2x LL 2x ac5 150 rounds xl 300

Flame does has the Ac in the torso. Dont like torso ac´s

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 11 November 2014 - 05:28 AM.

[Krivvan]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 11 November 2014 - 03:58 AM, said:

its incredible how ppl insist on that the Dragon must be bad. I play it since over 18 months and it works to me. Thats what matters to me.

And I could say I run LRM Jenners and that it works for me. That just means it works for me. That doesn't mean it's good overall.

I could also say that I ran Locusts before quirks and that it worked for me. Yet it was objectively clear that the Locust was inferior to the Jenner and Firestarter.

[Mister Blastman]

OP: No. It is NOT OP. Stop it. Dragon is NOT op.

Stop.

It is a one trick pony. Blow off the arm, kill the Dragon. And it has a huge CT, despite the armor and internal buffs. Dragon is NOT op.

[Mavairo]

Wait you said the 5N is good after quirks? Hell no it isn't.
It's arguably worse off than it was pre quirks. AC2s still suck.
Should have been a UAC5 and pair of MG quirks if they wanted to make it different to the other DRGs. At least then the ballistic arm would have a viable weapon system.

Edited by Mavairo, 11 November 2014 - 02:53 PM.

[LordBraxton]

Mister Blastman, on 11 November 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

OP: No. It is NOT OP. Stop it. Dragon is NOT op.

Stop.

It is a one trick pony. Blow off the arm, kill the Dragon. And it has a huge CT, despite the armor and internal buffs. Dragon is NOT op.

This. The dragon isn't even very good post quirks. Perhaps the biggest RA of any battlemech, especially proportionally, and it flies off after 1 or 2 alphas. Just nuke the arm and laugh at the helpless chubby sprinter.

[Charronn]

Nah not op at all.Now i have never Dragoned and after buying and upgrading this mech I have to say it's definately fun in the RIGHT circumstances it still is very situational.
Stlill like it tho.Will probably master them despite it destroying my w/l ratio lol.

[Zanathan]

Yes it's totally OP.

(Just let these clowns think it is and pilot them .. I'll be more then happy to kill them).

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Kmieciu, on 06 November 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

I was there when the Dragon was introduced. It was underpowered from the start and everybody just used the Catapult. But right now it has the highest sustained DPS of all the heavy mechs.

Actually there were a few good pilots back in the day who built a " stormcrow " like striker with it. All the good ones had XL 350-360 ( could go up to 107 kph ) and some great builds were 4 ML Gauss, 4 med pulse srm6, ac10 4 meds ( on the Flame ) and some longer range builds as well. It was nasty when you got the drop on someone, before everyone started playing hide behind the hill deathball warrior online.