Niko has made mistakes, but this thread isn't one of them. This is just about mock outrage in an attempt to influence change.
The customer is not always right. The customer should not be treated as always being right. That is a failed customer service model and about as appropriate to modern day customer service as the buggy whip.
3
Freemium Isn't Free ( Aka The Latest Southpark Episode )
Started by MadLibrarian, Nov 05 2014 11:34 PM
73 replies to this topic
#42
-
-
- Bad Company
- 2,972 posts
Member
- LocationMichigan
Posted 09 November 2014 - 04:45 AM
Heffay, on 09 November 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:
Niko has made mistakes, but this thread isn't one of them. This is just about mock outrage in an attempt to influence change.
The customer is not always right. The customer should not be treated as always being right. That is a failed customer service model and about as appropriate to modern day customer service as the buggy whip.
The customer is not always right. The customer should not be treated as always being right. That is a failed customer service model and about as appropriate to modern day customer service as the buggy whip.
Actually you know what, now that I think about it, I change my stance and agree with you. Some customers are complete idiots.
(Remembers days working at Burger King 
)
#43
-
-
- Legendary Founder
- 776 posts
Member
- LocationWarframe
Posted 09 November 2014 - 05:59 AM
StompingOnTanks, on 09 November 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:
Actually you know what, now that I think about it, I change my stance and agree with you. Some customers are complete idiots.
(Remembers days working at Burger King )in the end customers=people paying for stuff you do.
so even if people want blue tooth cable, you deliver them, no matter what ... (sadly thats not a joke)
#44
-
-
- Bridesmaid
- 14,396 posts
Member
- LocationExodus fleet, HMS Kong Circumflex accent
Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:14 AM
Heffay, on 09 November 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:
Niko has made mistakes, but this thread isn't one of them. This is just about mock outrage in an attempt to influence change.
The customer is not always right. The customer should not be treated as always being right. That is a failed customer service model and about as appropriate to modern day customer service as the buggy whip.
The customer is not always right. The customer should not be treated as always being right. That is a failed customer service model and about as appropriate to modern day customer service as the buggy whip.
I'm not saying that it's a saying, and not meant to be taken literally, as no one can ever be always right, but...
It totally is a saying, and it shouldn't be taken literally. Let's also consider PGI/IGP former customer relations, and the 'we will ban you from our stuff if you talk about our game on facebook!'-saga.
No, I'm never, ever, ever letting that one slide, or any of their other horrible customer relations.
You of anyone should know this.
#45
-
-
- Ace Of Spades
- 4,534 posts
Member
- LocationTaiwan, One True China
Posted 09 November 2014 - 08:30 AM
Heffay, on 09 November 2014 - 04:20 AM, said:
Niko has made mistakes, but this thread isn't one of them. This is just about mock outrage in an attempt to influence change.
The customer is not always right. The customer should not be treated as always being right. That is a failed customer service model and about as appropriate to modern day customer service as the buggy whip.
The customer is not always right. The customer should not be treated as always being right. That is a failed customer service model and about as appropriate to modern day customer service as the buggy whip.
The Customer is Always Wrong isn't a valid model either, you know...
#46
-
-
- Legendary Founder
- 623 posts
Member
- LocationBound and gagged on The Island
Posted 09 November 2014 - 09:15 AM
@MadLibrarian:
Still poor examples, still misleading, still have nothing to do with the issues at hand.
I Have contacted the devs privately, They're hiding behind the ToS, which is old, outmoded, and in this modern time of "micro" transactions needs new laws and new oversight in place to protect the consumers. The BBB is useless, as They just go off of the ToS that every developer uses, and said ToS is corrupt and grants the end user zero rights or recourse. The devs can use it to do whatever They want, but You can't use it to any effect what so ever.
What We need is a third party, a consumer advocacy group just for online gaming transactions. Something that will take the spirit of the transaction itself to heart, and not just say, "sorry, You DID sign the ToS..."
Also, I did contact IGP, They refuse to talk to Me. And why should They? Forming and dissolving financial partnerships is an old and reliable business method of dodging responsibility.This way, both bodies can point at each other and say "Hey don't talk to US, that's the other guy's responsibility..." I've seen it done with fortune 500 companies, and local offices. I've worked for two different electronics manufactures that have split and reformed themselves as single or separate entities many times, just for tax, responsibility, and personal, and /or image reasons.
I'm still talking to PGI because They are still the developer of the software, and after the IPG/PGI split, They alone are in control of said software. That means They are responsible.
As for the guy who said I'm being a douche, and am "A dime a dozen", no I'm not. I'm being a consumer.
This is part of the problem. Gamers worship game developers. They want to be buddies, pals. They don't want to be "Uncool", They want to take whatever is put in front of them.
And developers know this. They use this. They embrace the fake sense of community and closeness, so whenever someone points out a wrongdoing, They'll have an army of "Close friends" to defend Them.
It's this "OH! I hope senpai notices ME!!! SQUEEE" mentality that's putting game players in these bad, vulnerable situations in the first place. "Cool! Paul liked My post! OMG!", "You guys! Russ answered MY tweet! Best day ever!"
It's time everyone stopped acting like little kids trying to impress the cool kid in class, and start acting like hard working, tax paying, adult consumers.
I am not Your buddy, I'm Your costumer. You need Me. If You mislead Me, or misuse the funds You've gotten from Me, I, along with all the other consumers, can suck the marrow from Your bones.
This is how real adults and real businesses work.
Also, I / We have been nice. In Closed beta up to launch, We gave unbiased feedback, then We gave good natured opinions, then We gave some polite criticisms, then We raised some concerns, Then We held polls, Then We made some minor complaints, then We held open houses, then We asked questions, Then We criticized, then We made demands, then some of us left, then the news outlets made poor reviews, then the vloggers made jokes, then We got mad, then We yelled, then bans happened, then memes happened, then the smart ones among us started spending our cash elsewhere (ALL HAIL STEAM), then....
We have been nice, that time is past.
Still poor examples, still misleading, still have nothing to do with the issues at hand.
I Have contacted the devs privately, They're hiding behind the ToS, which is old, outmoded, and in this modern time of "micro" transactions needs new laws and new oversight in place to protect the consumers. The BBB is useless, as They just go off of the ToS that every developer uses, and said ToS is corrupt and grants the end user zero rights or recourse. The devs can use it to do whatever They want, but You can't use it to any effect what so ever.
What We need is a third party, a consumer advocacy group just for online gaming transactions. Something that will take the spirit of the transaction itself to heart, and not just say, "sorry, You DID sign the ToS..."
Also, I did contact IGP, They refuse to talk to Me. And why should They? Forming and dissolving financial partnerships is an old and reliable business method of dodging responsibility.This way, both bodies can point at each other and say "Hey don't talk to US, that's the other guy's responsibility..." I've seen it done with fortune 500 companies, and local offices. I've worked for two different electronics manufactures that have split and reformed themselves as single or separate entities many times, just for tax, responsibility, and personal, and /or image reasons.
I'm still talking to PGI because They are still the developer of the software, and after the IPG/PGI split, They alone are in control of said software. That means They are responsible.
As for the guy who said I'm being a douche, and am "A dime a dozen", no I'm not. I'm being a consumer.
This is part of the problem. Gamers worship game developers. They want to be buddies, pals. They don't want to be "Uncool", They want to take whatever is put in front of them.
And developers know this. They use this. They embrace the fake sense of community and closeness, so whenever someone points out a wrongdoing, They'll have an army of "Close friends" to defend Them.
It's this "OH! I hope senpai notices ME!!! SQUEEE" mentality that's putting game players in these bad, vulnerable situations in the first place. "Cool! Paul liked My post! OMG!", "You guys! Russ answered MY tweet! Best day ever!"
It's time everyone stopped acting like little kids trying to impress the cool kid in class, and start acting like hard working, tax paying, adult consumers.
I am not Your buddy, I'm Your costumer. You need Me. If You mislead Me, or misuse the funds You've gotten from Me, I, along with all the other consumers, can suck the marrow from Your bones.
This is how real adults and real businesses work.
Also, I / We have been nice. In Closed beta up to launch, We gave unbiased feedback, then We gave good natured opinions, then We gave some polite criticisms, then We raised some concerns, Then We held polls, Then We made some minor complaints, then We held open houses, then We asked questions, Then We criticized, then We made demands, then some of us left, then the news outlets made poor reviews, then the vloggers made jokes, then We got mad, then We yelled, then bans happened, then memes happened, then the smart ones among us started spending our cash elsewhere (ALL HAIL STEAM), then....
We have been nice, that time is past.
#47
-
-
- 212 posts
Member
Posted 09 November 2014 - 09:39 AM
MadLibrarian, on 08 November 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:
Me too, I completely agree, but once the mistake has been rectified what more is there to say? If it were serious, it should be reported to his supervisor.
He posted transaction totals, not credit card numbers. I am opposed to all claims that the sky is falling until Bill Nye explains why on television.
When people hear insults and aggression it can trigger the stress response in the brain, making it less likely they'll even read it's intention properly, let alone respond rationally themselves.
Yeah, he didn't post sensitive info,but at the same time, that's not the point. As a CM, he has access to your account info to solve account related problems. He doesn't have access to it to make a point in some petty argument. And if he lets a stress response get the better of him, that clearly shows a lack of professionalism on his part. He's not talking with people face to face. Walk away, grab some coffee and cool off for a minute before you respond.
Majorfatboy, on 09 November 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:
/snip
As for the guy who said I'm being a douche, and am "A dime a dozen", no I'm not. I'm being a consumer.
This is part of the problem. Gamers worship game developers. They want to be buddies, pals. They don't want to be "Uncool", They want to take whatever is put in front of them.
And developers know this. They use this. They embrace the fake sense of community and closeness, so whenever someone points out a wrongdoing, They'll have an army of "Close friends" to defend Them.
It's this "OH! I hope senpai notices ME!!! SQUEEE" mentality that's putting game players in these bad, vulnerable situations in the first place. "Cool! Paul liked My post! OMG!", "You guys! Russ answered MY tweet! Best day ever!"
It's time everyone stopped acting like little kids trying to impress the cool kid in class, and start acting like hard working, tax paying, adult consumers.
/snip
As for the guy who said I'm being a douche, and am "A dime a dozen", no I'm not. I'm being a consumer.
This is part of the problem. Gamers worship game developers. They want to be buddies, pals. They don't want to be "Uncool", They want to take whatever is put in front of them.
And developers know this. They use this. They embrace the fake sense of community and closeness, so whenever someone points out a wrongdoing, They'll have an army of "Close friends" to defend Them.
It's this "OH! I hope senpai notices ME!!! SQUEEE" mentality that's putting game players in these bad, vulnerable situations in the first place. "Cool! Paul liked My post! OMG!", "You guys! Russ answered MY tweet! Best day ever!"
It's time everyone stopped acting like little kids trying to impress the cool kid in class, and start acting like hard working, tax paying, adult consumers.
/snip
I read your first post responding to Niko, and sorry, you kinda did come off as a douche. If you have beefs with the devs on how they've done things, that's cool. In fact, I support you in calling them out on it. However, you do have a choice in how you frame your arguments. I decided to leave in the part where you say we need to act like adult consumers, because reading your first post leads me to believe that you're anything but that.
ANYWAYS. Going back to the problems with freemium. Freemium puts games into a constant development cycle. Perpetual beta. Now, that's not all bad. People like content, and new content keeps people coming back for more. However, new content is the only way you make money in freemium from your existing customers. The developer has to make a choice. Make new content that you can make money off of, or fix existing issues with the game, which costs money, but doesn't directly make you any.
#48
-
-
- Knight Errant
- 386 posts
Member
- LocationDnepropetrovsk, Galedon Military District
Posted 09 November 2014 - 09:58 AM
I prefer "The customer is always first." Enforces the focus on good service without putting consumers on some weird pedestal that plays into their already strong (and unwarranted) sense of entitlement.
#49
-
-
- The 1 Percent
- 930 posts
Member
- Twitch: Link
- LocationYou Guys Are So Bad I'm Moving To The Moon
Posted 09 November 2014 - 11:42 PM
Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 06 November 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:
As someone who once, like many other video game professionals, made minimum wage on testing and supporting the kinds of mobile games the episode is truly targeting; I must admit the South Park crew have done a great critique of the state of our industry.
Indeed we don't.
Amongst the similarities in our brand of Free-to-Play to the freemium model we frequently see discussed at video game professional conventions, there are a number of differences seen in our game.
For starters, our game is a bit more complex than simply tapping on the screen to receive coins.
I'm open to hear out any concerns or questions you all might have stemming from this episode though.
Indeed we don't.
Amongst the similarities in our brand of Free-to-Play to the freemium model we frequently see discussed at video game professional conventions, there are a number of differences seen in our game.
For starters, our game is a bit more complex than simply tapping on the screen to receive coins.
I'm open to hear out any concerns or questions you all might have stemming from this episode though.
My biggest complaint/concern is your cosmetic items are priced way too high. To put it in perspective Phranken with colors costs 4250 MC (1250 for pattern + 3x1000mc for colors). That's more than most battlemechs in this game. While I can use the colors across all my mechs, I can only use the pattern on a select list of that mechs variants. Which is odd because everything cosmetic in contrast is not locked to a variant of particular mech like cockpit items and paint colors. In contrast as well a 1000 MC color can be used unlimited but something a mere 250 MC more cannot? If you look at my account you can see I have purchased multiple camo specs across most of my mechs so I'm not asking for a hand out. It's more I'm confused by this tactic as if you say lowered it's value for lack of reusability or increased it use for present value I'd probably spend more on them since, like a majority of players who purchased them in the first place the look of the mech is something I value.
You would also free up more MC to be directed into game experience as in Premium Time and Mech bays. Increasing these increases my want to play as progress = reward. The sense of which encourages you to play and spend money. I purchase the packages because they have value over not buying them. This is a great example of cost vs reward and I wish you guys will someday look at this again and realize your bottlenecking your possible revenue stream because of it.
#50
-
-
- The Partisan
- 383 posts
Member
Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:10 AM
Although I'm warming up to the fremium model, it has its detriments when compared to other models.
I would like to say that neither Niko nor Majorfatboy are particularly looking like reasonable people at the moment. But, the difference between the two of them is that Niko is supposed to be a professional, and whether Fatboy legally waived his privacy rights or not Niko compromised his credibility with his post.
Oh, and Niko, you may want to check with your lawyer on your privacy rights in Canada. I'm not a lawyer myself, but you might want to check on the limitations for a citizen to waive their own rights, and whether someone can waive their right to privacy in Canada though implied consent vs. expressed consent - or even at all. Privacy laws have seen some pretty restrictive changes in the last few years.
I would like to say that neither Niko nor Majorfatboy are particularly looking like reasonable people at the moment. But, the difference between the two of them is that Niko is supposed to be a professional, and whether Fatboy legally waived his privacy rights or not Niko compromised his credibility with his post.
Oh, and Niko, you may want to check with your lawyer on your privacy rights in Canada. I'm not a lawyer myself, but you might want to check on the limitations for a citizen to waive their own rights, and whether someone can waive their right to privacy in Canada though implied consent vs. expressed consent - or even at all. Privacy laws have seen some pretty restrictive changes in the last few years.
#51
Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:24 AM
The Simpsons took a shot at freemium games last night too. 
Well, we know where Southpark, Futurama, and the Simpsons stand on freemium games, I wonder what Peter Griffin thinks.
Found this while looking for a video of Homer's explanation. http://imgur.com/a/PUsqe (Haven't found the clip yet though.)
Well, we know where Southpark, Futurama, and the Simpsons stand on freemium games, I wonder what Peter Griffin thinks.
Found this while looking for a video of Homer's explanation. http://imgur.com/a/PUsqe (Haven't found the clip yet though.)
#52
-
-
- The Nimble
- 7,864 posts
Member
- LocationSaline, Michigan
Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:42 AM
Vassago Rain, on 07 November 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:
Oh, Niko, when will you learn...
Why are you quoting me?
#53
-
-
- Legendary Founder
- 704 posts
Member
Posted 10 November 2014 - 09:07 AM
Vassago Rain, on 09 November 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:
I'm not saying that it's a saying, and not meant to be taken literally, as no one can ever be always right, but...
It totally is a saying, and it shouldn't be taken literally. Let's also consider PGI/IGP former customer relations, and the 'we will ban you from our stuff if you talk about our game on facebook!'-saga.
No, I'm never, ever, ever letting that one slide, or any of their other horrible customer relations.
You of anyone should know this.
Aww isn't that cute, island dweller #1 is looking for another time out in the corner. Must be a hell of a life acting like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum on a permanent basis.
#54
-
-
- Shredder
- 2,502 posts
Member
- LocationKuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posted 10 November 2014 - 11:25 AM
MadLibrarian, on 08 November 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:
I think the f2p Family Guy game fits Southpark's freemium model horribly well too. It has a few jokes here and there, but not much else. I don't think I ever saw the simpsons mobile game. Hard to find any value in those types of games. At least we have a mechlab we can toy around with infinitely here, some people find that as enjoyable as lobbing lrms.
What game is the closest to this one in it's approach to monetization?
What game is the closest to this one in it's approach to monetization?
The freemium mobile game; Candy Crush, comes to mind.
Repetative gameplay of match-3, shiny eye candy and audio que on candy crushing, gold star on completing a stage, offer pay item to lessen the difficulty.
It even have the added bonus feature of locking your progress behind a premium gate; either wait 48 hours, sucker 3 friends to install the game and send you ticket or buy the ticket yourself.
#55
-
-
- The Referee
- 6,458 posts
Rum Runner
- LocationPHX
Posted 10 November 2014 - 12:03 PM
spectralthundr, on 10 November 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:
Aww isn't that cute, island dweller #1 is looking for another time out in the corner. Must be a hell of a life acting like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum on a permanent basis.
It's going to be hilarious when he turns on Star Citizen. It's just a matter of time. Should save off his posts here and photoshop in SC where appropriate.
#56
-
-
- 395 posts
Member
Posted 10 November 2014 - 12:38 PM
If you haven't, I suggest watching a few Extra Credits episodes on the Free to Play model. There is some very good discussions on there about what is being done wrong and what could be done right. While I don't agree with some of what's stated they do have some good ideas.
I think that, if done right, Free to Play can be a good model for a game that otherwise would have never seen the light of day. The problem is, in my opinion, greed. Another Extra Credits episode echoes my opinions pretty well on what's broken.
I think that, if done right, Free to Play can be a good model for a game that otherwise would have never seen the light of day. The problem is, in my opinion, greed. Another Extra Credits episode echoes my opinions pretty well on what's broken.
#57
-
-
- 2,299 posts
Member
Posted 10 November 2014 - 06:41 PM
It's very interesting to see what gets a reaction... southpark points out the truth that any F2P game must adhere (the basic game has to get you to at least spend a little money to have "more fun" - if even a little bit).
Like, say, not having enough cbills to make a properly viable build of a trial mech in your starter account.
F2P = has to rid the misery curve, if even at just the slighest levels. Some do it with wisdom, others do it with $$$ signs in their eyes and earplugs in. PGI seems to be attempting to go for the "slight" level, even if they don't pull it off for everyone (who the heck could?)
Freemium is like somone took diablo 2 and allowed you to do everything in the game free ... except pick up unique, sets, or runes loot for free. Microtransactions to pick up those.
Yes, it's fun, but it's not as rewarding as It could be. It can't be. There has to be a reason to spend money. In a game, that reason is ... FUN! ... or at least the perception that you'll have more fun.
Of course, the greater context is ... how do you make a game where you buy it once, pay once, actually have post-buy support, and have fun... when everyone and their brother steals the darn thing; and when you point out that they STOLE it, they are such arrogant moral midgets that they act as if they were ENTITLED to steal it, because it cost 40-60 bucks, and darnit, anything more than you PAYING ME to get the game you made is TOO MUCH!
Which, of course, gave rise to more and more DRM which would be fine if DRM didn't virtually ALWAYS wind up absuing paying players. For well over a decade I've expected that the pirated version players will have the better gameplay experience... and they usually do. Hello, starforce? DRM that writes into your boot sectors on your HDD? DRM behaving like viruses?
Lacking a way to overcome the costs of making a popular video game that doesn't involve screwing paying players badly ... we now have F2P, where the developers HAVE to make ALL players at least somewhat unhappy enough with their gameplay experience ... just enough to spend some money to be happier with their gameplay. Either that or draw in enough whales to support virtually everyone else.
All because more than enough players had/have no problems being theives and developers didn't figure out a way to make a viable DRM that doesn't groin-kick paying players. Let's not even discuss piracy and offline single player story centric games.
The insane part of it all is that it's still apparently just a few players who spend the most money that pay for most of the other players; in common speak the "whales," that drive even the most popular games that get the most paying support from their playerbase at large.
In some ways I am thankful that I'm stuck in a position where I don't have any disposable money. As soon as I saw the prices on things for MWO that got things rolling, I realized that yes, you got some in game value for the top tier stuff... but the real value was in supporting the Mechwarrior Genre (yes, the genre. NOT MWO but the genre). You don't drop 500 bucks on any gameplay experience outside of a fully articulated sim-cockpit build ... at least nobody I know of does. The biggest whales are supporting the Genre at least as much as they're supporting MWO with the top tier buys. I'm thankful because If I did have the disposable income, I would have dropped the money not only to buy the top tier stuff at least the first time around, that would have been on top of dropping the money to build a comp that could play MWO - and losing all the opportunities that I could have had otherwise while I was playing MWO.
This all makes it just SO much more ironic that the BattleMechs don't do combat like battlemechs. The phrase "our interpretation" is fine as far as it goes, but it still has to conform to the IP - you can't "interpret" mechwarrior to be farmville, unless you're literally insane.
The guy who's job it is to decide what the IP (the IP that gave birth to the entire MW genre) is(fluff AND crunch) confirmed in may of 2013 that yes, indeed, the Crunch (rules) in the TT that describe hit-spread ARE representative of THE BATTLEMECH'S combat performance. This has been referred to by myself many times on these forums since than in many threads here. I am beginning to wonder if this has even been noticed by TPTB around these parts. Ok, so, they don't want to convert the TT crunch. I disagree, but beyond that - it's been said by the LD of the entire BT ip that these things represent what happens in the lore, which would be fine as far as that goes, but virtually every novel and bit of fluff text describing battlemech combat since 1984 bears this out. It's just the way 'mechs perform in combat. The "name on the box" says "battlemech." A huge chunk of "battlemech" is missing. A chunk that by it's being missing (in ANY form) has caused a string of balancing decisions that have upset the apple cart repetitively (even by the dev's admission). "Interpretation" only justifies gameplay decisions up to a point.
What does this have to do with freemium? Simple. The dedicated whales have been supporting the MW genre because they have a greater attachment to the BT lore. Do I even have to point out the necessary consequences here? If even a person stuck in financial exile from the gaming world can realize this ...
So, am I ticked at PGI? Not really. In fact, I'm happy that someone, anyone, is developing SOMETHING in the MW genre. Yes, I'll even admit that I was a bit on the giddy side in 2009 when the news came out that there were serious plans for a new MW game. One of the few upsides of my particular position is that I don't have skin in the game beyond my past enjoyment of the MW genre and my liking the Battletech Fiction and games. I'm here to support the Genre. I don't and unfortunately can't have any other reason to be here right now. I'm certainly not here for the discussion, learning, and debate over current events (virtually nonexistant on these forums - the mods have enough on their hands keeping GD and such in line). So I try and support the genre with my one spendable currency - time and reading - with things like that thread pinned in off topic, or the one in the battletech sub forums ... or the thread I've had in the suggestions forum since 2011. Or my vain attempt to try and point out that the name "mechwarrior" had a knowable meaning and that we should stop arguing over it. I sort of wish I had kept track of the man hours I've spent doing those things.
Tears of rage and QQ? Nah. Just enjoying a very rich irony sandwich here. Speaking of which, I caught some more grammar stuff that needs editing elsewhere. *makes this post, saves it to cd, and than wanders out.*
Like, say, not having enough cbills to make a properly viable build of a trial mech in your starter account.
F2P = has to rid the misery curve, if even at just the slighest levels. Some do it with wisdom, others do it with $$$ signs in their eyes and earplugs in. PGI seems to be attempting to go for the "slight" level, even if they don't pull it off for everyone (who the heck could?)
Freemium is like somone took diablo 2 and allowed you to do everything in the game free ... except pick up unique, sets, or runes loot for free. Microtransactions to pick up those.
Yes, it's fun, but it's not as rewarding as It could be. It can't be. There has to be a reason to spend money. In a game, that reason is ... FUN! ... or at least the perception that you'll have more fun.
Of course, the greater context is ... how do you make a game where you buy it once, pay once, actually have post-buy support, and have fun... when everyone and their brother steals the darn thing; and when you point out that they STOLE it, they are such arrogant moral midgets that they act as if they were ENTITLED to steal it, because it cost 40-60 bucks, and darnit, anything more than you PAYING ME to get the game you made is TOO MUCH!
Which, of course, gave rise to more and more DRM which would be fine if DRM didn't virtually ALWAYS wind up absuing paying players. For well over a decade I've expected that the pirated version players will have the better gameplay experience... and they usually do. Hello, starforce? DRM that writes into your boot sectors on your HDD? DRM behaving like viruses?
Lacking a way to overcome the costs of making a popular video game that doesn't involve screwing paying players badly ... we now have F2P, where the developers HAVE to make ALL players at least somewhat unhappy enough with their gameplay experience ... just enough to spend some money to be happier with their gameplay. Either that or draw in enough whales to support virtually everyone else.
All because more than enough players had/have no problems being theives and developers didn't figure out a way to make a viable DRM that doesn't groin-kick paying players. Let's not even discuss piracy and offline single player story centric games.
The insane part of it all is that it's still apparently just a few players who spend the most money that pay for most of the other players; in common speak the "whales," that drive even the most popular games that get the most paying support from their playerbase at large.
In some ways I am thankful that I'm stuck in a position where I don't have any disposable money. As soon as I saw the prices on things for MWO that got things rolling, I realized that yes, you got some in game value for the top tier stuff... but the real value was in supporting the Mechwarrior Genre (yes, the genre. NOT MWO but the genre). You don't drop 500 bucks on any gameplay experience outside of a fully articulated sim-cockpit build ... at least nobody I know of does. The biggest whales are supporting the Genre at least as much as they're supporting MWO with the top tier buys. I'm thankful because If I did have the disposable income, I would have dropped the money not only to buy the top tier stuff at least the first time around, that would have been on top of dropping the money to build a comp that could play MWO - and losing all the opportunities that I could have had otherwise while I was playing MWO.
This all makes it just SO much more ironic that the BattleMechs don't do combat like battlemechs. The phrase "our interpretation" is fine as far as it goes, but it still has to conform to the IP - you can't "interpret" mechwarrior to be farmville, unless you're literally insane.
The guy who's job it is to decide what the IP (the IP that gave birth to the entire MW genre) is(fluff AND crunch) confirmed in may of 2013 that yes, indeed, the Crunch (rules) in the TT that describe hit-spread ARE representative of THE BATTLEMECH'S combat performance. This has been referred to by myself many times on these forums since than in many threads here. I am beginning to wonder if this has even been noticed by TPTB around these parts. Ok, so, they don't want to convert the TT crunch. I disagree, but beyond that - it's been said by the LD of the entire BT ip that these things represent what happens in the lore, which would be fine as far as that goes, but virtually every novel and bit of fluff text describing battlemech combat since 1984 bears this out. It's just the way 'mechs perform in combat. The "name on the box" says "battlemech." A huge chunk of "battlemech" is missing. A chunk that by it's being missing (in ANY form) has caused a string of balancing decisions that have upset the apple cart repetitively (even by the dev's admission). "Interpretation" only justifies gameplay decisions up to a point.
What does this have to do with freemium? Simple. The dedicated whales have been supporting the MW genre because they have a greater attachment to the BT lore. Do I even have to point out the necessary consequences here? If even a person stuck in financial exile from the gaming world can realize this ...
So, am I ticked at PGI? Not really. In fact, I'm happy that someone, anyone, is developing SOMETHING in the MW genre. Yes, I'll even admit that I was a bit on the giddy side in 2009 when the news came out that there were serious plans for a new MW game. One of the few upsides of my particular position is that I don't have skin in the game beyond my past enjoyment of the MW genre and my liking the Battletech Fiction and games. I'm here to support the Genre. I don't and unfortunately can't have any other reason to be here right now. I'm certainly not here for the discussion, learning, and debate over current events (virtually nonexistant on these forums - the mods have enough on their hands keeping GD and such in line). So I try and support the genre with my one spendable currency - time and reading - with things like that thread pinned in off topic, or the one in the battletech sub forums ... or the thread I've had in the suggestions forum since 2011. Or my vain attempt to try and point out that the name "mechwarrior" had a knowable meaning and that we should stop arguing over it. I sort of wish I had kept track of the man hours I've spent doing those things.
Yet three minutes of a foul poorly animated cartoon on pay-to-watch networks gets more attention than 3 years worth of replies from multiple people who want to see things conform more to the already established fiction... 
Tears of rage and QQ? Nah. Just enjoying a very rich irony sandwich here. Speaking of which, I caught some more grammar stuff that needs editing elsewhere. *makes this post, saves it to cd, and than wanders out.*
Edited by Pht, 10 November 2014 - 06:53 PM.
#59
-
-
- Shredder
- 4,292 posts
Member
- LocationOhio
Posted 19 December 2014 - 08:03 AM
F2P game developers feed off of the stupid people of the world. They know that certain people will pay small amounts for in-game content because they either wont or are too stupid to take the time to create a strategy to gain the in-game content they want.
MWO is in a league of their own since their pay structure is "ohh you want this new shiny mech, pay this large sum". I'll never buy a package, I see no value in it. I will eventually buy a Hero mech.....Still havent found one I wanted. I wanted Sparky until I saw it doesnt have DHS, Endo, Xl engine or even Ferro. No value in it for me then.
MWO is in a league of their own since their pay structure is "ohh you want this new shiny mech, pay this large sum". I'll never buy a package, I see no value in it. I will eventually buy a Hero mech.....Still havent found one I wanted. I wanted Sparky until I saw it doesnt have DHS, Endo, Xl engine or even Ferro. No value in it for me then.
Edited by mogs01gt, 19 December 2014 - 08:05 AM.
#60
-
-
- The Referee
- 6,458 posts
Rum Runner
- LocationPHX
Posted 19 December 2014 - 08:21 AM
mogs01gt, on 19 December 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:
F2P game developers feed off of the stupid people of the world. They know that certain people will pay small amounts for in-game content because they either wont or are too stupid to take the time to create a strategy to gain the in-game content they want.
MWO is in a league of their own since their pay structure is "ohh you want this new shiny mech, pay this large sum". I'll never buy a package, I see no value in it. I will eventually buy a Hero mech.....Still havent found one I wanted. I wanted Sparky until I saw it doesnt have DHS, Endo, Xl engine or even Ferro. No value in it for me then.
MWO is in a league of their own since their pay structure is "ohh you want this new shiny mech, pay this large sum". I'll never buy a package, I see no value in it. I will eventually buy a Hero mech.....Still havent found one I wanted. I wanted Sparky until I saw it doesnt have DHS, Endo, Xl engine or even Ferro. No value in it for me then.
Time is money. It's not stupid to allocate funds to your entertainment budget to ensuring you maximize the time you spend in the game.
And frankly, in a dollars per hour calculation, the money you spend on a great F2P game like MWO is just peanuts compared to other forms of entertainment.
2 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users
