5 replies to this topic

[Minoxen]

First - I love that quirks are being implemented and really appreciate the opportunity to offer feedback on this first round.

My personal feedback would be that the 20 and 25 tons mechs have a very difficult time utilizing their quirks when they are ammunition dependent. (Laser focused variants seem to flourish)

Mechs like the Locusts 3S, Commando 2D, 3A, and to a lesser extent the Locust 1M and Commando 1D

I could be doing it wrong, but almost all of my attempts to build these mechs while maximizing their quirked weapons resulted in either dropping the speed below that of 35ton mechs, or only having enough ammunition for a very short duration engagement.

I know that these quirks are just the first round, but I wanted to offer some discussion on these in particular as they were mostly already 3rd class lights, and being unable to make the most of the quirks they are given will still leave them lacking.

If the requirement for 10 Heatsinks were removed from the 20 and 25 ton mechs it would be much easier to build them out and still be heat efficient due to the small size and # of weapons.

As a "simple" idea, perhaps mechs like these could receive an additional quirk to give them a %bonus to ammunition per ton?

This could be limited to a specific ammo type to prevent LRM boating or something odd, but I think these ammo dependent 20 and 25 tons could use another look in the pass#2.

Keep up the great work, and look forward to the continued progress!

P.S. If any of you reading this have figured out good builds for these guys that retains speed, has backup weapons, and can maximize the quirks. Please share!

[JC Daxion]

I was playing around with commando builds, as they were next on my list to get.. ( i always loved these little guys) I figured wait for quirks, and time to pull the trigger. But i must say i was surprised when i saw they were SRM6's

all the builds i came up with, and have seen people playing in game while i have been watching after my earlier demise have been SRM4's, or even 2's in the case of the tripple SRM2 build.. It is pretty rare i ever see them with SRM 6's.. Heck even the larger mechs up to 50 tons, i see SRM 4's much more often.

If these mechs are not geared towards 4's or 2's, i dunno if any mech would be

[Koniving]

The big thing is... the heatsinks themselves are supposed to have no weight to begin with; and instead all that weight would be 100% dependent on the engine itself (which would be heavier).

In the end, the heatsink weight reflects the engine true weight.

Your issue is that you're relying entirely on the missile weapons. Relying entirely on staying cold. Relying entirely on having max armor or far beyond BT canon levels of speed for most mechs.

...The deeper issue is that this game was NOT designed around "Battletech" being viable, but easy point and click adventures of instant death. Front loaded weapons. 3 to 18 times the damage dealt per weapon per 10 seconds compared to tabletop. And yet... only twice the armor. It wasn't so bad back when delayed convergence was a thing, but with it removed... some things are going to have to change about how the weapons work to compensate for this issue. Just a simple fact of life.

In the mean time I can make a Locust run perfectly well at 81 to 101 kph and still get kills while staying very much alive. So you're clearly doing something wrong. Here, have an AC/5.

(Skip to 6 minutes on both videos for Locust fun.)


Meanwhile... in BT I can have two Locusts butchering a next generation Atlas without ever 'running'.

Spoiler

Weapons fire for Atlas AS8-D (PTC)
Snub-Nose PPC at Locust LCT-1V #2 (Koniving); needs 9, rolls 11 : hits RA
Locust LCT-1V #2 (Koniving) takes 10 damage to RA.
Armor destroyed, SECTION DESTROYED,
3 damage transfers to RT.
Critical hit on RA. Roll is (10+1) = 11; 2 locations.
CRITICAL HIT on +Machine Gun.
CRITICAL HIT on Upper Arm.
Locust LCT-1V #2 (Koniving) takes 3 damage to RT.
5 Armor remaining.

(Separate attack)
Light PPC at Locust LCT-1V (Koniving); needs 7, rolls 10 : - Direct Blow - hits LA
Locust LCT-1V (Koniving) takes 6 damage to LA.
Armor destroyed, 1 Internal Structure remaining
Critical hit on LA. Roll is (8+2) = 10; 1 location.
CRITICAL HIT on Upper Arm.

That's the sort of stuff it does to me.

Spoiler

Weapon Attack Phase
-------------------
Weapons fire for Locust LCT-1V (Koniving)
Machine Gun at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs 3, rolls 7 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Rear table) RTR
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 3 damage to RTR.
7 Armor remaining.


Machine Gun at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs 2, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Rear table) LL
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 4 damage to LL.
20 Armor remaining.


Medium Laser at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs 0, rolls 7 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Rear table) LA
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 6 damage to LA.
6 Armor remaining.


Weapons fire for Locust LCT-1V #2 (Koniving)
Machine Gun at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs 4, rolls 10 : - Direct Blow - hits RT
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 4 damage to RT.
11 Armor remaining.


Medium Laser at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs 4, rolls 5 : hits RA
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 6 damage to RA.
17 Armor remaining.




Atlas AS8-D (PTC) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (20+ damage).
The base target is 10 [8 (Base piloting skill) + 2 (Sprinting)].
Roll #1, (8 (Base piloting skill) + 2 (Sprinting) + 1 (20+ damage) - 2 (weight class modifier)); needs 9, rolls 5 : falls.
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) falls on its left side, suffering 10 damage.
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 5 damage to RT.
6 Armor remaining.
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 5 damage to RT.
1 Armor remaining.

Pilot of Atlas AS8-D (PTC) "Lily Davenport" must roll 9 to avoid damage; rolls 3 : fails.
Pilot of Atlas AS8-D (PTC) "Lily Davenport" takes 1 damage.
Pilot of Atlas AS8-D (PTC) "Lily Davenport" needs a 3 to stay conscious. Rolls 6 : successful!

Physical Attack Phase
-------------------

Physical attacks for Locust LCT-1V #2 (Koniving)
Kick (Left leg) at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs -1, rolls 5 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Right Side table) RT
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 5 damage to RT.
Armor destroyed, 17 Internal Structure remaining
Critical hit on RT. Roll is (8+1) = 9; 1 location.
CRITICAL HIT on Rotary AC/5 Ammo (20).
*** Rotary AC/5 Ammo EXPLODES! 100 DAMAGE! ***
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 100 damage to RT.
SECTION DESTROYED,
LIMB BLOWN OFF Right Arm blown off.
remaining 83 damage prevented by CASE.
Critical hit on RT. Roll is (7+4) = 11; 2 locations.
CRITICAL HIT on Rotary AC/5 Ammo (11).
*** Rotary AC/5 Ammo EXPLODES! 55 DAMAGE! ***
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 55 damage to RT.
remaining 55 damage prevented by CASE.

Pilot of Atlas AS8-D (PTC) "Lily Davenport" takes 2 damage.
Pilot of Atlas AS8-D (PTC) "Lily Davenport" needs a 5 to stay conscious. Rolls 5 : successful!

Pilot of Atlas AS8-D (PTC) "Lily Davenport" needs a 7 to stay conscious. Rolls 5 : blacks out.

Location has no more hittable critical slots.

Pilot of Atlas AS8-D (PTC) "Lily Davenport" takes 2 damage.

________________________

Weapon Attack Phase
-------------------
Weapons fire for Locust LCT-1V (Koniving)
Machine Gun at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs 3, rolls 6 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Left Side table) HD (hit aimed location)
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 3 damage to HD.
6 Armor remaining.

Pilot of Atlas AS8-D (PTC) "Lily Davenport" takes 1 damage.*** Atlas AS8-D (PTC) DESTROYED by pilot death! ***


Machine Gun at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs 2, rolls 9 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Left Side table) LA
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 4 damage to LA.
2 Armor remaining.


Medium Laser at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs 2, rolls 9 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Left Side table) LL
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 8 damage to LL.
12 Armor remaining.


Weapons fire for Locust LCT-1V #2 (Koniving)
Machine Gun at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs 5, rolls 9 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Right Side table) CT
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 3 damage to CT.
29 Armor remaining.


Medium Laser at Atlas AS8-D (PTC); needs 5, rolls 11 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Right Side table) HD (hit aimed location)
Atlas AS8-D (PTC) takes 8 damage to HD.
Armor destroyed, 1 Internal Structure remaining
Critical hit on HD. Roll is (8+3) = 11; 2 locations.
CRITICAL HIT on Standard Cockpit.
CRITICAL HIT on Sensors.

Pilot of Atlas AS8-D (PTC) "Lily Davenport" is already dead, so no damage is dealt!

Locusts kick ass.
....but not with how PGI's designed it.

[Minoxen]

Yea.. your AC5 build isn't what I was looking for. I wasn't saying that you cannot be successfull without the quirks on these mechs, because you can. But they put them in place to empower these mechs further, and I'm having a hard time finding a way to use them.

Thanks alot for the info on the HS though.

[Bilaz]

More ammo per ton quirks for light mechs - that would be very nice since with srms dps is already quite high, range is good and only thing thats missing - unlimited ammo . I carry 2,5 tons in 3s - thats 537 damage max - and i dont ever get more (because of misses and small laser as standalone weapon dont really work)

And in both videos locusts with ac5 were useless. here, thats how locust rock in this non-tabletop game (note - two solo kills):

Spoiler

But alas with so much ammo - hard to do more.

[Minoxen]

@Bilaz Care to share your build? 2.5 tons of ammo is a reasonable amount. Did you have to go below 150kph,? What launcher did you go with?