94 replies to this topic

[AlmightyAeng]

PGI has said before that they often count topics when it comes to whether something is OP or not. And since I already see people making threads bitching about the 5SS...so...here's ANOTHER THREAD.

Instead of continuing to be an absolute joke, the T-Bolt 5SS now has a niche place as a short-range brawler. It's still a barn door of a torso and is gonna get BEAT UP in a fight...but now you can actually deliver a few good punches first.

It's still outclassed by a multitude of other brawling laservomit boats...but only marginally now. I like the place it's in.

Discuss.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 07 November 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[oldradagast]

Agreed.

as far as I can tell, NONE of the quirks make ANY of the mechs overpowered.

Some of them do create very nasty roles, such as the Dragons that are now glass cannons vs. being glass pop-guns before. Same idea here, and it's nice to see the Thuds actually able to DO something in a fight other than get blown apart like big, tin barrels.

[AlmightyAeng]

I'm fine with seeing a dragon and saying "Huh, might wanna actually use cover rather than approaching that" instead of the previous thoughts of "Giggle...a dragon. Ignore it...go for a bigger threat, like that locust over there."

[Ghogiel]

Ghost Badger, on 07 November 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

It's still outclassed by a multitude of other brawling laservomit boats...but only marginally now. I like the place it's in.

I can't think of a comparable IS brawler heavy actually

[Josef Nader]

Agreed. Even with the quirks, the Huginn is still a brawling, ammo-dependent light with huge leg hitboxes, the Awesome is still a walking barn with a low engine cap, the Dragon is still a CT on legs completely outclassed by most other heavies, and the Thunderbolt is still an energy dependent heavy with bad hitboxes competing in tonnage with the Jägermech. Don't stress it.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

so are lrms

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 07 November 2014 - 06:01 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Ghogiel, on 07 November 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

I can't think of a comparable IS brawler heavy actually

If you're thinking of ALL laser vomit? Neither can I...though I can think of LOTS of clans.

Just as a Brawler though? Cataphract 1X immediately comes to mind, with 5 ML and an AC20. Or a 6 ML Firebrand and supporting dakka. Or a JM6-S with 4 ML and dakka. Or a Muromets.

I'm sure there ARE Orion brawlers...but I still think all Orions are terrible.

[QuantumButler]

People who bought clan gundams are just angry that the IS freeplaying scum have a chance in 1v1 against them now, they've been enjoying their OP pay 2 win robots and don't like the tables being turned.

[mindwarp]

Nobody complains about the Sparky with 6 MPL, Jump jets and a top speed of 116kph. How is the thunderwub OP if Sparky isn't? The extra range? 30kph faster says range isn't really an issue. The extra armour? The TDR is a massive target, and even with the 315 standard its still no ballerina. The one extra MPL? Please... The Thunderwubs cooldown and heat reduction more or less make up for the Sparky's massive mobility advantage, but I'd still give the edge to the 6 MPL Sparky in a one on one. The Thunderwub is viable, and fun, but it's still not a mech the comp guys are going to take.

[Josef Nader]

It just stands a chance of being in the CW dropdeck of a few players now, rather than strictly a masochism PUG mech.

[Ultimax]

Ghost Badger, on 07 November 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

PGI has said before that they often count topics when it comes to whether something is OP or not. And since I already see people making threads bitching about the 5SS...so...here's ANOTHER THREAD.

Instead of continuing to be an absolute joke, the T-Bolt 5SS now has a niche place as a short-range brawler. It's still a barn door of a torso and is gonna get BEAT UP in a fight...but now you can actually deliver a few good punches first.

It's still outclassed by a multitude of other brawling laservomit boats...but only marginally now. I like the place it's in.

Discuss.

Why should the 5SS completely outclass my Boar's Head (which was never a good mech really) with Medium Pulse Lasers, and also have the speed to actually skirmish vs. my Boar's Head which cannot?

The 5SS gets a 42 point alpha for 14 tons of MPL.
The 9SE gets a 33 point alpha for 21 tons of LPL.

Heat and range should be balancing factors between those two, but with the Heat Gen quirks and ability to slot 20 DHS with a good sized engine, I'd say the 5SS is superior.


Do we want new winners and losers or do we actually want balance amongst variants?

[Josef Nader]

The 9SE can jump. I'd say that's a pretty significant advantage.

The Boars Head has quite a bit more armor and tonnage to play with than the Thud, and its hitboxes are better. The Thud might be faster, but the Boars Head should still beat it in a regular fight.

[RetroActive]

mindwarp, on 07 November 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

Nobody complains about the Sparky with 6 MPL, Jump jets and a top speed of 116kph. How is the thunderwub OP if Sparky isn't? The extra range? 30kph faster says range isn't really an issue. The extra armour? The TDR is a massive target, and even with the 315 standard its still no ballerina. The one extra MPL? Please... The Thunderwubs cooldown and heat reduction more or less make up for the Sparky's massive mobility advantage, but I'd still give the edge to the 6 MPL Sparky in a one on one. The Thunderwub is viable, and fun, but it's still not a mech the comp guys are going to take.

I love my Thunderwub and I'm glad it's finally viable. That said, Sparky can't compare. 5ss gets +50% mpl range, Sparky gets no mpl range bonus. 5ss gets -25% mpl heat, Sparky only gets -7.5% mpl heat (This is the biggest advantage for Thunderwub). 5ss gets 15% mpl cooldown bonus, Sparky only gets 7.5%.

Your Sparky will be overheating, firing more slowly and firing at shorter range while my Thunderwub alphas with impunity.

[Killaxis]

Quit the complaining...

oh and Wub Wub

[Barantor]

Ultimatum X, on 07 November 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

Why should the 5SS completely outclass my Boar's Head (which was never a good mech really) with Medium Pulse Lasers, and also have the speed to actually skirmish vs. my Boar's Head which cannot?

The 5SS gets a 42 point alpha for 14 tons of MPL.
The 9SE gets a 33 point alpha for 21 tons of LPL.

Heat and range should be balancing factors between those two, but with the Heat Gen quirks and ability to slot 20 DHS with a good sized engine, I'd say the 5SS is superior.


Do we want new winners and losers or do we actually want balance among variants?

LPL has a bit more range and on the 9SE has the jumpjets to get it behind big enemies like the direwolf and atlas, I've been using it to good success that way with 3 LPL in the left torso.

The BH has armor that is far superior to the TDR, it isn't even comparable in that manner. Yes the TDR can go in the 80KPH range, but that doesn't make up for the return fire it gets when it has to close. The Atlas will always remain a force on the battlefield and a pivot point for teams, the TDR is now a really good strike mech when closing.

That all said, I wouldn't mind if the heat was brought up on it just a little bit so it can't alpha as many times. Might mean ghost heat on 6+ MPL or something, but it would be fair.

The luck of short range maps with cover is what gives the TDR it's benefits, if you let it in close it is going to start shearing off components. In Alpine against a team that has the hill it is pretty worthless unless you can close on them, Caustic it's the same way.

[mindwarp]

RetroActive, on 07 November 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

I love my Thunderwub and I'm glad it's finally viable. That said, Sparky can't compare. 5ss gets +50% mpl range, Sparky gets no mpl range bonus. 5ss gets -25% mpl heat, Sparky only gets -7.5% mpl heat (This is the biggest advantage for Thunderwub). 5ss gets 15% mpl cooldown bonus, Sparky only gets 7.5%.

Your Sparky will be overheating, firing more slowly and firing at shorter range while my Thunderwub alphas with impunity.

Fair points, but the Sparky's mobility counts for a lot. 30kph faster and jump jets makes a big difference. On open ground, the thunderwub has the edge, but in amongst the buildings it's a different story.

[RetroActive]

mindwarp, on 07 November 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

Fair points, but the Sparky's mobility counts for a lot. 30kph faster and jump jets makes a big difference. On open ground, the thunderwub has the edge, but in amongst the buildings it's a different story.

It's true. Both have their advantages. A 6 mpl Sparky is definitely scary.

[Ghogiel]

Ghost Badger, on 07 November 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

If you're thinking of ALL laser vomit? Neither can I...though I can think of LOTS of clans.

Just as a Brawler though? Cataphract 1X immediately comes to mind, with 5 ML and an AC20. Or a 6 ML Firebrand and supporting dakka. Or a JM6-S with 4 ML and dakka. Or a Muromets.

I'm sure there ARE Orion brawlers...but I still think all Orions are terrible.

The DD with UAC5s is probably the closest it's going to get. But that's still going to get pwnt imo.

[WarHippy]

Ghost Badger, on 07 November 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

PGI has said before that they often count topics when it comes to whether something is OP or not. And since I already see people making threads bitching about the 5SS...so...here's ANOTHER THREAD.

Instead of continuing to be an absolute joke, the T-Bolt 5SS now has a niche place as a short-range brawler. It's still a barn door of a torso and is gonna get BEAT UP in a fight...but now you can actually deliver a few good punches first.

It's still outclassed by a multitude of other brawling laservomit boats...but only marginally now. I like the place it's in.

Discuss.

Regardless of what you said in the first line I don't see a need for another thread. That being said the mech is very strong right now, and is not at all what I would consider squishy. It is a very resilient mech. I don't really want to see it nerfed, but if(probably when) it gets nerfed I will not be surprised in the slightest.

[Barantor]

Ghost Badger, on 07 November 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

If you're thinking of ALL laser vomit? Neither can I...though I can think of LOTS of clans. I'm sure there ARE Orion brawlers...but I still think all Orions are terrible.

ON1-M with the LBX and 3xsrm6's is pretty good to catch someone off guard. The spam keeps them from being able to see you as well and if you are good at twisting you don't end up that bad. It isn't the premium brawler, but it can at least do something besides LRM spam now.