38 replies to this topic

[ShadowWolf Kell]

A CDA-3M isn't a Kit Fox, so there's no reason to run it below a 300XL or without LLs so you can at least contribute while covering your team with ECM. No reason to bring AMS because you really don't have the room for it. There's a case for bringing TAG over BAP since you can negate enemy ECM from 700m that's obviously outside your counter range. It also gives your team a target to light up if they have missiles. The downside is, unless you keep it painted on the target, it's kind of useless for your team which means you're a target.

If you're dead set on AMS, I'd suggest an FS9-S or Jester instead. Both can run dual AMS and an effective build, and both be faster than a Kit Fox. One of the Thunderbolts has dual AMS as well iirc. The CDA-3M makes a good ECM support platofrm, but also a good long range skirmisher and there's no reason not to help finish off mechs for your team while supporting them with ECM and counter ECM. Leave the AMS to mechs that can afford to bring it.

I play ECM support for my team with both my RVN-3L and CDA-3M. Both are fast, both have LLs and both tend to be the last mech alive at the end where that speed is especially critical. It can and does win matches.

No amount of ECM or AMS can save a team that pops over a ridge like on Caustic one by one and gets focus fired down, or camps tightly in a spot and refuses to push, only to get taken out by strikes. You just have to learn to recognize those games and adapt your strategy because they'll happen and there's nothing you can do to fix that.

[Abivard]

Strikeshadow, on 08 November 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

If you don't take some 400m + ranged weapons in anything except a light mech, then you have to wait until the ranged battle begins to end and then go clean up

umm in other words being a parasite and scavenger of corpses?

[Burktross]

ibex230, on 08 November 2014 - 01:49 AM, said:

LRM is the cancer of this game. Reminds me a lot of armor lock in Halo Reach.
It's not op and it's not broken, it's just really boring to play against.

You just summed up LRMs to 100% accuracy.
+1 Free Ton on your mech of choice

[Kilo 40]

MischiefSC, on 08 November 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

When you need to design your mech, lances and drop-deck around 1 particular weapon system then there's issues with the dynamic. Be that ECM or LRMs.

I keep trying to design my mechs around lasers, PPCs, and ballistics, but for some reason there's no counters I can add to my mech for them.

[beerandasmoke]

Staying safe from LRMs in soloque depends on what kind of speed you have. The more manuverability you have the more chances you can take since you can quickly duck back into cover. Slow assualts and IS heavies suffer the worst from LRM spam. Pilots of these mechs need to be aware of how many boats are on the field and where the best cover is too fight. That just doesnt happen though. Too many times I watch a slowmech expose itself to try to grab a cookie out of the jar and they get melted. Patience is the best tactic and letting the enemy come to you where you can fight from cover.

AMS is a waste of time in my opinion. Unless its a dual AMS its not going to stop a heavy boat from pummeling you into the ground if you expose yourself. The only thing a single AMS is going to stop is LRM5 chainfired spam. We can ask all we want for everyone to take AMS but its just not going to happen in soloque. Now with the nerf to ECM heavy and assualt pilots need to be even better at keeping themselves covered so they can last the whole game and continue to put out effective dmg on the enemy team. Good tactics, being aware of how many boats are on the field, bringing a Radar derp module, and maintaining cover while still being effective will help much more than a single AMS.

[El Bandito]

Willard Phule, on 08 November 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

Good luck having any BAP/CAP to counter the 6 ECM mechs the other team has. And, since "fire and forget" is the first skill learned, you see a LOT of LRMs.

MWO LRMs are not Fire and Forget. MW4 LRMs are.

beerandasmoke, on 08 November 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Good tactics, being aware of how many boats are on the field, bringing a Radar derp module, and maintaining cover while still being effective will help much more than a single AMS.

You can still do all of the above while carrying AMS. AMS is there not only for you, but for your teammates, who can be either less skilled or less fortunate, or both.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 November 2014 - 08:19 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Kilo 40, on 08 November 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

I keep trying to design my mechs around lasers, PPCs, and ballistics, but for some reason there's no counters I can add to my mech for them.

Yes, yes there is. Direct fire - you can always shoot anyone who is shooting you.

The same can not be said of LRMs. Sometimes 12 people can shoot you that you have no way to shoot back. With NARC on Caustic you can easily be shot by 5 or 6 people for a long time with no way to shoot them back. You can always hope someone on your team has ECM and didn't run off, or you can hug 2 points on the map and hope the other team is terrible.

Not that I can't, and don't, deal with LRMs. Not that I don't know how to stick to cover or bring AMS, or just take an ECM mech. It's that the overall mix of mechanics inherent in that is bad. Indirect fire is a crap mechanic overall. Not that I can't and don't take the LRM boat out now and again or that I don't know how to deal with it - same way I packed my poptart to just about every single match during the Golden Age of Poptarting -

Just that a crap mechanic is exactly that - crap.

Buff direct fire, nerf indirect. Make it a better game overall.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

El Bandito, on 08 November 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

MWO LRMs are not Fire and Forget. MW4 LRMs are.

So where MW2s. Can't recall with MW3. Got bored with it pretty quickly in a Shadow Cat and quit until MW4 came out.

[El Bandito]

MischiefSC, on 08 November 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

Buff direct fire, nerf indirect. Make it a better game overall.

Unless LRM DF speed is increased to 800ms, has instant lock, and does not get cockblocked by ECM, there is no way it can compete with other DF weapons such as Lasers and ACs and Gauss, if PGI decides to limit indirect fire to TAG and NARC.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 November 2014 - 08:15 PM.

[mogs01gt]

lmao LRMs are only viable with max CD and chain firing LRM 5s or 10s...So OP....

[wanderer]

KraftySOT, on 08 November 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

Again, we know that theyre easy to counter. Its that countering them is boring as hell.

Protip: The best strategies in warfare are usually the most boring ones in terms of "action".

[wanderer]

MischiefSC, on 08 November 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

Yes, yes there is. Direct fire - you can always shoot anyone who is shooting you.

The same can not be said of LRMs. Sometimes 12 people can shoot you that you have no way to shoot back. With NARC on Caustic you can easily be shot by 5 or 6 people for a long time with no way to shoot them back. You can always hope someone on your team has ECM and didn't run off, or you can hug 2 points on the map and hope the other team is terrible.

Funny how people mention Caustic.

Do you know what caused massive amounts of swearing prior to LRMs having any real function whatsoever on Caustic?

People complaining that if they didn't hit a few specific spots on Caustic, they'd be mauled to death by angry Gausscats ridge sniping them into junk the second they made LOS happen. Caustic will always be the bane of people who don't realize that cover = life in MWO, and players will use the best available options to negate that cover (or the best fire lanes to nail you as far as possible).

Hate Caustic for being a low-cover map if you must, but the LRMs are just the weapon that drives people mad. Nerf them, and we can go right back to poptarting and ridgehumping you to death there instead. Your brawler will still die cursing.

[Jonny Slam]

Willard Phule, on 08 November 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

Member since August 2014. No offense, man, but you'll pardon me if your opinion doesn't have the kind of weight that someone that's been around a while and knows how to play the game would have.

Dude! this is a really obnoxious thing to say. Plenty of us who have been around BT in all it's form since the 80's are idiots, just as many new players are very sharp.

Please apologize for this comment mate and remove it, I read your stuff and you put up some really great posts, this was really rude and unworthy of you.

JS

[MischiefSC]

El Bandito, on 08 November 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Unless LRM DF speed is increased to 800ms, has instant lock, and does not get cockblocked by ECM, there is no way it can compete with other DF weapons such as Lasers and ACs and Gauss, if PGI decides to limit indirect fire to TAG and NARC.

Faster locks for direct fire, flatter trajectory, more missiles hit per salvo on direct fire. Speed to around 650, like AC20.

THEN you can make ECM only SLOW, not BLOCK, direct fire locks. This makes a *huge* change and puts the Magic Jesus Box where it needs to be. have it greatly slow (not prevent) paper doll population and slow, not prevent, SRM locks.

Then, suddenly, ECM is a 2 ton piece of equipment. About on par with a class 2 TC and a tad better than BAP, which speeds target data and extends targeting range. Which is fitting as BAP is 1.5 tons.

Make indirect fire require NARC or TAG or a command module for the targeting mech.

Suddenly the game isn't decided by having or not having ECM relative to enemy LRM boats and LRM boats are not about having 6 people shooting at 1 guy who can't shoot back and who needs to just hull down and wait for them to lose interest in him and shoot at someone else.

Which is what the whole indirect fire meta is about. The entire mechanic isn't about 'teamwork', it's that 'if you line up parts A, B, C you have a huge advantage *on certain maps* and are still pretty much screwed *on certain maps*'.

That's a bad design. That's not promoting teamwork. Teamwork is a benefit to direct fire mechanics every bit as much as it is to indirect ones.

Make LRMs a good weapon to bring along with other loadouts; in the same way that I synergize ACs and lasers and SRMs. With LRMs, you boat them and bring a backup laser for point blank.

Bad mechanic is bad.

[Jonny Slam]

I don't think much of indirect fire with my lrms, early in the match for me it tends to be a waste of ammo except for cover and harassing.

I use arty lrms, so I make a point of direct fire whenever possible, and take the hits on my rig to keep target lit, why else carry the extra weight?

[El Bandito]

NM.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 November 2014 - 08:56 PM.

[Kilo 40]

MischiefSC, on 08 November 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

Yes, yes there is. Direct fire - you can always shoot anyone who is shooting you.

The same can not be said of LRMs. Sometimes 12 people can shoot you that you have no way to shoot back.

I didn't realize that firing a small pulse laser negates PPC and ERLL damage in the same way that AMS or ECM stops LRM damage. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

MischiefSC, on 08 November 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

When you need to design your mech, lances and drop-deck around 1 particular weapon system then there's issues with the dynamic. Be that ECM or LRMs. Both are ****. Indirect fire as a game mechanic in a FPS is a poor mechanical concept and in the long run creates more negatives than positives. If you totally removed LRMs completely from indirect fire you'd have a small number of people outraged and a large group going 'Huh.. Yeah... yeah the game is better. Wish it didn't have to go that way but yeah. Better game experience overall'.

You'd have a small number of people outraged if you gave everyone a free bus full of hookers and blow so that's unavoidable.

Nerf indirect fire, buff direct fire for LRMs. Better MW:O game overall.

/end of thread
This is what needs to happen to keep new players wanting to play. Indirect fire needs to require more risk and/or cost than it does currently.

[Xetelian]

I'm just glad I get to play a battletech game with LRMs in it. Why is that too much to ask?

Edited by Xetelian, 08 November 2014 - 09:27 PM.