40 replies to this topic

[Kreisel]

Yes, there are already a lot of threads about in game rewards/earning on the forums already, but I wanted to have the discussion from a different perspective, namely how do changes in the C-bill and XP earning of players (especially when they have a bad game) potentially effect PGI's bottom line and the MWO's player base.

I want to be clear about something my arguments are based on a desire to see MWO doing well. While yes, I do personally want to see more cbills in my bank, I am highly invested in this game as an Elite Founder/Overlord/Partisan + Ala Cart, and I am more concerned with getting the most out of my fiscal and emotional investment in this game by seeing it being successful and seeing it grow. I want to see PGI make money hand over fist in with this game, I want to see a large vibrant active community. That requires players, lots of players; it means player retention and conversion of free players into paying customers.

Thus my argument for higher c-bill earnings per match and more rewards for smaller time investment are centered on the belief it will benefit PGI's bottom line. I believe that higher C-bill earnings will be good for the health of the game community and INCREASE the sale of MC.

An argument I've often seen is that if players made too many c-bills per match and were not frustrated by the grind of low rewards they would not be motivated to spend MC or premium time or directly buying mechs. I want to refute this kind of toxic thinking. it asserts that PGI can only make a profit by extorting player frustration, and I wholeheartedly disagree with the belief that we should encourage or support such a model of monetization.

A business model that revolves around the idea of making an activity people do for fun frustrating in some aspect and then asking for money to remove the frustration is coercive and toxic. It's like trying to make a living off stockholm syndrome and addiction in your player base. If your argument is that PGI needs to make their game play experience just miserable enough that people will be motivated to spend money to make it less so (which is what I am seeing a lot of) then you are looking for PGI to have the kind of relationship to it's players that a Drug deal has with an addict.

I want to players to spend MC because we perceive value in the product offered, not because we feel we 'need to' to avoid being subpar, or because even because it's a hassle not to. Annoyance and frustration are not emotions you want associated with your baseline free version of the game. Instead you want a baseline experience that is just fun, and allow them to have more of what they are already fully enjoying for free by choosing to fiscally support your product by being able to buy items they want but don't 'need' with MC. Again, it's about creating and reinforcing positive feelings about your game and you get more of those when a conversion from free to paying player is motivated by enjoyment and excitement rather than frustration. You never want your players to feel like 'I need to shell out the cash or this sucks.

An increase in cbill/xp earning so it is accessible to the casual player, the new player, or to the hardcore player who spends most their time in other games isn't going to drive away your market share of players who feel they make enough.

This should be evident by the fact players still bought mechs, mechbays and premium time with MC even when cbill earning was higher than it is now. We don't need to be starved for cbills to want a 30% or 50% boost, or to get that shiny new mech NOW.

Instant gratification isn't what I'm looking for. Measuring gains in HOURS played, in weeks, in months, is not instant gratification. Paying Real word money to buy a mech which otherwise taken you days, weeks or worse months of playtime to earn.... that is instant gratification in a way that devalues the time investment. You can buy a Dire Wolf for $36.96 (1250 MC+6500MC) and have MC left over. Working a minimum wage job min Michigan ($8.15/hr) I could earn that Dire Wolf in roughly 4.5 Hours. Other economic factors aside, the fact rather marginalizes the 30 or so hours of in game time it would take to earn the Cbills to buy it.

Just look at how the community at large reacted to the IDEA of Rewards 2.0 and its actual implementation. Before we actually saw how low the rewards could be the forums exploded with excitement and joy, there was massive amounts of praise for the idea and PGI itself... then players got into the game and saw themselves making LESS c-bills than before if they had a bad game, or worse yet a bad night of games. Outrage, disgust, anger, disappointment, and outcry for a rollback to the old rewards hit the forums enforce. It was enough that PGI planed a hotfix for it within one day.

From the standpoint of player mood and fun it should never be possible to lose cbills on match (without performing actions which you wish to highly discourage namely team killing or abandoning your team) It's possible to use 80,000 Cbills of consumables in a match. It's should be very clear to everyone at this point that you can make significantly less than that in a match. As a developer you don't ever want your players to be at a point where they leave a match feeling like they just spent more c-bills on it than they gained, not without some other benefit to show for it. It's already disheartening to have a bad match; feeling punished for that bad match by rewards lower than what they put into it has a significant negative impact on a players mood. Simply put that is not an emotion you want them to associate with your game if you wish to be successful.

I feel top end reward are reasonable at this point but low end rewards are where the real problem is. It's comfortable when doing well, but miserable when you are doing poorly. I understand not wanting to reward poor performance, but it's bad for players who are trying to work their way out of a statistical disadvantage of weaker mechs. As you are likely to do badly if all you can afford is a bad mech or are learning the game.

Simply because the grind is “worse” in other games is no reason for PGI to follow that model. PGI has an opportunity to draw players away from other games with worse grinds by making theirs better. Basic rule of competition, if there is an aspect of something that clients don’t like about your competitors products, remove or lessen that aspect in your own product by a significant degree and you will draw the portion of the market that cares about that aspect to your product instead.

Studies have shown the "average gamer" plays ~13 hours a week, and that "core gamers" play ~20 Hours a week. Consider that most Gamers will split that time between more than one game. With c-bill earnings estimated at an average of ~500,000 cbills an hour and players reporting gains as low as ~240,000 cbills an hour on a bad night it's been estimated to buy and gear a mech at average earnings takes between 20 to 40 hours of play, such players are unlikely to stick around or commit to the game enough to see value in spending money on it. True, a player who is doing well might make many times that number of c-bills an hour, but such a players is likely already invested in the game and unlikely to stop playing or stop spending money on the game if low end cbill and XP rewards were to increases. A high end earner isn';t likely to alter his spending habits if his high end rewards increase either.

I believe PGI would make more money if C-bill and XP rewards were higher, for the following reasons.
-Increased new player retention and conversion of Free Players to Paying players
-Premium time is more appealing and feels more valuable if the numbers you get with it feel high. Numerous players have stated they are avoiding using or activating premium time because "it doesn't feel worth it for such small reward." If they aren't using it they aren't buying more.
-Players will only buy mechbays, paint, pattern and cockpit items (and the coming decals) as quickly as they can acquire mechs that need them.
-Low earnings encourage behaviors like selling mechs back once elite to help buy the next one faster, as opposed to keeping it and buying the mechbay for a new mech.
-There are enough mechs in the game (and additionally Hero/Champions mechs can only be bought for MC) so there is no risk of players running out of things to spend MC because of high c-bill earnings.
-Converting Mech XP to general XP is only desirable on mechs that have reached Mastery. You can only spend as much MC on converting to general XP as you have XP sitting on mechs that don't need it.

In short... More C-bills = more things to potentially spend MC on.
It also means more people playing who might buy MC.

[gregsolidus]

I don't think they're willing to gamble on potential profits.

[Psydotek]

When it comes to Free2Play games...

I like spending money on games I enjoy. (TF2 is an excellent example for me)

I don't like spending money in order to enjoy games. (anything that's constantly hitting you over the head in game to spend money, such as Candy Crush... or games that don't allow you to be effective without paying for something. World of Tanks comes dangerously close from what i've heard)

So far I think MWO has hit an acceptable spot in between the two. There's plenty of effective stuff to be had by free players (with or without grinding) while other stuff (different but not necessarily overpowered) is kept just out of reach for people who want to pay money.

Edited by Psydotek, 08 November 2014 - 02:31 PM.

[Burktross]

STOP MAKING ME CRY OF WHAT I CAN ONLY DREAM OF.
And if they're concerned about premium time losing value?
A) Use in weekly increments
Buff premium time

[Pale Jackal]

I think PGI could do a lot better in two ways:

1) improving the new player experience. Up the free 'mech bay count from 4 to 6.
2) improve cadet bonuses to double the current amount.

You have to make new players invested in a F2P game before they're going to spend money, unless they're Mechwarrior diehards, but PGI already has most of those players captured.

Furthermore, I would:

3) implement 1-3 daily double C-bill bonuses to encourage players to play each day. First win, or first three wins, each day is double income. Keep your player base alive. I briefly invested $15 into Warframe, which was a waste, but they gave you an item reward each day you logged in, and if you consistently logged in you got better and better rewards. Possibly give each hero 'mech a x2 daily bonus as well, to encourage players to play poke-'mech with heroes. I've currently got 5 heroes and 5 more on the way with the Wrath pack - given I like to pilot hero 'mechs, will I really need another 4 hero 'mechs (bringing my total to 14) in the future? I'll totally buy them if I get x2 daily C-bill bonuses.

4) Make premium time give +100% or +200% C-bills and XP. An extra 50% is nothing, and not worth the $10 to $15 per month that PGI charges. C'mon PGI, people are giving you hard cash for funny money, don't be stingy.

Edited by Pale Jackal, 08 November 2014 - 02:52 PM.

[Dirkdaring]

You should get 10k c-bills just for reading all of that.

[Burktross]

Pale Jackal, on 08 November 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

4) Make premium time give +100% or +200% C-bills and XP. An extra 50% is nothing, and not worth the $10 to $15 per month that PGI charges. C'mon PGI, people are giving you hard cash for funny money, don't be stingy.

I'd orgasm. No joke.

[Pale Jackal]

Burktross, on 08 November 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

I'd orgasm. No joke.

Just give people who have used premium time in the past a flat C-bill bonus, like 15 million per month used.

Seriously though, PGI is way too stingy to players who are giving them money. I'm buying the Wrath pack partially because I like the direction PGI is heading recently, (and because I want the King Crab). I intend to be a Clanner during CW, so I probably won't even get to use the Resistance heroes a whole lot. However, I am willing to drop $60 to $80 on a game every year or two if I like the product and I have loyalty to it.

PGI should learn about building customer loyalty... actually, maybe they have learned, given their recent behavior. But they could still make some improvements.

Edited by Pale Jackal, 08 November 2014 - 02:47 PM.

[Burktross]

Pale Jackal, on 08 November 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Just give people who have used premium time in the past a flat C-bill bonus, like 15 million per month used.

Seriously though, PGI is way too stingy to players who are giving them money. I'm buying the Wrath pack partially because I like the direction PGI is heading recently, (and because I want the King Crab). I intend to be a Clanner during CW, so I probably won't even get to use the Resistance heroes a whole lot. However, I am willing to drop $60 to $80 on a game every year or two if I like the product and I have loyalty to it.

PGI should learn about building customer loyalty... actually, maybe they have learned, given their recent behavior. But they could still make some improvements.

I can imagine it now.
That Atlas looks nice! And yes, I can afford it!

[Pale Jackal]

Burktross, on 08 November 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

I can imagine it now.
That Atlas looks nice! And yes, I can afford it!

And then you drop MC on a 'mech bay.

[Burktross]

Pale Jackal, on 08 November 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

And then you drop MC on a 'mech bay.

And I'd do so happily.

[Strikeshadow]

Whatever they do, they need to do it soon. They are already in what the 3rd year? And they still don't have enough players to let us choose game modes and maps with ELO balance.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I am a professional marking guy and I have been saying since closed beta that MWO would be more profitable for PGI if things weren't so expensive.

For example I don't mind buying premium time but I wish it had a bit more benefit since the C-bill grind is so harsh. I also love to paint up and camo my mechs but at the current prices, I have barely scratched the surface in that regard. Same goes for consumables, I rarely use them because even with hero mechs and premium, I also feel starved for C-bills. Also speaking of hero mechs, I can think of about 5 of them that are out that I wouldn't mind owning, Sparky and Hellsinger being two standouts for me but considering the pre-order packs are much better values considering all the premium time and swag you get, I am not going to drop $30 to buy one of them, especially without taking them for a test drive first.

Cheapen everything up significantly, then I would buy dozens of colors, 2-3 camos for each of my mechs (especially if I could switch them out on a whim without having to rebuy them), Warhorns would be a must for each mech as well (If one 750MC purchased unlocked that particular warhorn and allowed me to mount one in all my mechs without swaping). Lots of stuff i would spend money on it is wasn't so pricey.

[Mystere]

Is deflation good for any economy?

Edited by Mystere, 08 November 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[Burktross]

Mystere, on 08 November 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

Is deflation good for any economy?

Implying this is a true economy.
We get cbills from no-where, they go to no-where.

[Alistair Winter]

I agree 100% with the OP.

It will probably never happen. Or at least, not untill MWO has reached its death throes.

Viktor Drake, on 08 November 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

I am a professional marking guy

Seems legit. Are we talking magic markers?

[Pale Jackal]

Alistair Winter, on 08 November 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

It will probably never happen. Or at least, not untill MWO has reached its death throes.

Agreed, PGI has been coasting on the die hard Mechwarrior / Battletech fans, and at a certain point we're all going to reach our tolerance for spending money. I'm not going to drop more than $60-$80 per year on this game, and while others may have larger limits than myself, they do have limits.

I'd like to see MWO grow rather than stagnate, but PGI seems to think being tight fisted is the best way to do this.

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 08 November 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

Is deflation good for any economy?

Well it certainly seems inflated enough in this case, so...

[Mystere]

Burktross, on 08 November 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

Implying this is a true economy.

There is a whole lot of difference between "any" and "true".

[Torgun]

Pale Jackal, on 08 November 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

Agreed, PGI has been coasting on the die hard Mechwarrior / Battletech fans, and at a certain point we're all going to reach our tolerance for spending money. I'm not going to drop more than $60-$80 per year on this game, and while others may have larger limits than myself, they do have limits.

I'd like to see MWO grow rather than stagnate, but PGI seems to think being tight fisted is the best way to do this.

It depends on if the main goal is to make the game population grow or to keep milking the whales as much as possible. With the current prices I think the latter is much more probable.