35 replies to this topic

[RalphVargr]

I was driving to a work site today, wondering about the two most common complaints about competitive online games:

1) Match making

2) Poor team performance

One thing that stood out was the pathological levels of anger displayed at poor teamplay. Losing is painful. Losing due to someone else's mistake is truly enraging. The level of hatred displayed on forum boards towards anyone contributing to a loss goes beyond simply penalizing the poor player with reduced earnings, or other penalties. Perma-banning a "loser" from gaming for the rest of their natural lives is one of the *least* hostile responses I've seen.

Then, the sun shone brightly, the fall foliage was on display, and it hit me:

The root word for fan is fanatic.

And, there is no fixing it.

Gamers, by definition, are obsessives. Online gamers are even more afflicted.

The two most dedicated online gamers I know are people who have medical conditions that preclude themselves from any other activity. One has a heart condition (and is yelling at kids on his lawn), the other one is (drumroll) certifiably crazy, because he has been certified. Can't hold down a job.

Naturally, his game is WoT.

There is no fixing said gamers. They want, and need, to win. Because, that is all that they have.

The best matchmaking system in the world cannot rectify this. Medication and therapy might help.

Competitive online games like MWO are prone to particularly humiliating stomps, due to sheer mathematics. It's no wonder we get the crazy uncles/aunts emerging from the attic or asylum onto the forums, enraged.

Negative motivators, like reducing earnings, only make the problem worse. A skills screening system, prior to joining a match, would only skew the distribution towards the lunatics, as they play the most. Clan Wars, anyone?

My suggestion to PGI is this: De-nerf earnings, reduce the grind, and make lots more content (maps, not mechs). The fanatics will continue to play, and the casual ordinary customer will be more likely to stay. Otherwise, Clan Warfare will split the playerbase into mutually unsustainable camps.

For the casuals like me, the Ignore button is a godsend. Use it. Ignore the crazies, and any taunting that you are a coward. You get to leave the asylum behind, they have to stay.

If PGI fails to deliver on making a better game, remove your payment methods. I did that to Wargaming.net, and have not regretted it. I walked away from those hundreds of real dollars spent, and I'm the better for it. I'm not holding down a second full-time job playing the game, now.

Many who claim that they have never paid for content are flat-out lying. PGI would not be in business if no-one (or only the whales) paid. And, they only have a limited amount of flying time left in the fuel tanks if they don't make the game more appealing to new customers.

If the game does not improve, do what the postage stamp says: Just walk away.

I feel much better, now.

[Gamuray]

Gotta admit, I don't disagree with anything you said there on my first read.

(that is exactly why I don't call myself a gamer, and when my friends do I say: "No, I don't play nearly as much as other people, an would do something else if I had friends close by. [they left for college] ... And I wouldn't be lying at all =P )

[Greenjulius]

There will always be internet tough guy tryhards. The reality of their situation is they are playing a niche high skill game, might be good at it, and rage against anyone who "brings them down" by not being as great.

I'm frustrated like anyone at poor performance, but I have played enough matches to know that it's inevitable to have a string of loses. I just try to have fun now, because... you know... it's a game. A GAME.

So, I apoligize for any whining I do in between rounds. Just run with it if you see GJ crying.

[Gattsus]

well said mate

[Squally160]

RalphVargr, on 29 October 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

Negative motivators, like reducing earnings, only make the problem worse. A skills screening system, prior to joining a match, would only skew the distribution towards the lunatics, as they play the most. Clan Wars, anyone?

For the casuals like me, the Ignore button is a godsend. Use it. Ignore the crazies, and any taunting that you are a coward. You get to leave the asylum behind, they have to stay.

So uh, people who want to win are lunatics and crazies?

[RalphVargr]

Squally160, on 29 October 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

So uh, people who want to win are lunatics and crazies?

No. But there are those obsessed with it, to the detriment of all else. And welcome to the Ignore list. 1/10.

[Peenutts]

OP you live in Missouri?

[Kvaneal]

So PGI needs to provide medication and therapy. I've also heard some of my fellow teachers proscribe the aerial spraying of Prozac. The extreme majority of people are just fine. Relax.

[TLBFestus]

After reading the name of this topic I was worried someone was on their way to my house with ill intent on their minds. Which is OK, cus my wonderful German Shepard, Storm, thinks those people are delicious, but after reading it, I'm feeling safer.

Carry on........

Edited by TLBFestus, 30 October 2014 - 07:39 PM.

[Kiiyor]

RalphVargr, on 29 October 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

I was driving to a work site today, wondering about the two most common complaints about competitive online games:

1) Match making

2) Poor team performance

One thing that stood out was the pathological levels of anger displayed at poor teamplay. Losing is painful. Losing due to someone else's mistake is truly enraging. The level of hatred displayed on forum boards towards anyone contributing to a loss goes beyond simply penalizing the poor player with reduced earnings, or other penalties. Perma-banning a "loser" from gaming for the rest of their natural lives is one of the *least* hostile responses I've seen.

Then, the sun shone brightly, the fall foliage was on display, and it hit me:

The root word for fan is fanatic.

And, there is no fixing it.

Gamers, by definition, are obsessives. Online gamers are even more afflicted.

The two most dedicated online gamers I know are people who have medical conditions that preclude themselves from any other activity. One has a heart condition (and is yelling at kids on his lawn), the other one is (drumroll) certifiably crazy, because he has been certified. Can't hold down a job.

Naturally, his game is WoT.

There is no fixing said gamers. They want, and need, to win. Because, that is all that they have.

The best matchmaking system in the world cannot rectify this. Medication and therapy might help.

Competitive online games like MWO are prone to particularly humiliating stomps, due to sheer mathematics. It's no wonder we get the crazy uncles/aunts emerging from the attic or asylum onto the forums, enraged.

Negative motivators, like reducing earnings, only make the problem worse. A skills screening system, prior to joining a match, would only skew the distribution towards the lunatics, as they play the most. Clan Wars, anyone?

My suggestion to PGI is this: De-nerf earnings, reduce the grind, and make lots more content (maps, not mechs). The fanatics will continue to play, and the casual ordinary customer will be more likely to stay. Otherwise, Clan Warfare will split the playerbase into mutually unsustainable camps.

For the casuals like me, the Ignore button is a godsend. Use it. Ignore the crazies, and any taunting that you are a coward. You get to leave the asylum behind, they have to stay.

If PGI fails to deliver on making a better game, remove your payment methods. I did that to Wargaming.net, and have not regretted it. I walked away from those hundreds of real dollars spent, and I'm the better for it. I'm not holding down a second full-time job playing the game, now.

Many who claim that they have never paid for content are flat-out lying. PGI would not be in business if no-one (or only the whales) paid. And, they only have a limited amount of flying time left in the fuel tanks if they don't make the game more appealing to new customers.

If the game does not improve, do what the postage stamp says: Just walk away.

I feel much better, now.

Well, not all competitive players are at the extremes you mention. There are (probably) in-betweeners, these being the players who are able to choke down their anger and type "GG" instead of the usual vitriol laced diatribe. There are also competitive players who are quite able to accept a loss without being a giant bag of detached phalli.

There is also the pure middle ground - being the assumed majority of players that simply play the game, throw small amounts of cash at it, (wisely) never venture into the forum badlands, and don't see the need to complain.

At the bottom of the spectrum are the terrible players that every now and again manage to eke out a decent round and think this is their normal skill level.

The thing is, there will always be things for people to complain about. I'm guessing PGI set up the earnings the way they did so they could be expanded upon down the track. I -really- like the concept and intent behind the change, as it has given me my first tantalizing glimpse of role warfare - but the implementation could use some tweaking. Not a complete rework, or a removal as some people are clamoring for. Tweaking! People complain about this like it's the apocalypse!

It's the way people approach their arguments that gets me. Most of the angry posts are demands, not a call for review. "DO IT MY WAY". These people tend to have trouble accepting anything that contradicts their view. If anyone does contradict their view, then it's ARGUIN' TIME. Hence most posts on the forums! The thing is, the arguments laid out aren't designed to bring the person over to see things their way; they are designed to prove the other person wrong.

I read this today, and it stuck with me:

That’s the thing with calling people out. It often, not always, comes from a place of ego or reaction. The intent, conscious or not, is to make the other person wrong. There’s also a public aspect to calling someone out, of making them lose face. The tone is adversarial. And ultimately, you’re putting the burden of change entirely on the other person (“Stop it!”).

Calling people forth, in contrast, comes from a place of service and an open heart. The intent is to call the person to higher ground. It builds on their strengths. The tone is collaborative. And ultimately, you’re sharing the burden of getting better (“How can I help?”). It feels more like coaching than scolding.

Doesn't that sound lovely. Naive, and lovely.

If you get big, competitive personalities together, there's bound to be fireworks. The trick is to find the people that aren't going to accept anything you say. There is absolutely no point arguing with someone who is only going to try and prove you wrong.

If you want your opinion heard, make your point, make it constructive, make it a suggestion, not a demand, avoid the rage, and move on if you notice you are trying to put your fingers through the keyboard when typing your replies.

Edit: Wow, reading back on this, i'm surprisingly eloquent considering the volume of beer consumed this eve. I've also written to much.

Edited by Kiiyor, 30 October 2014 - 12:44 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

RalphVargr, on 29 October 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

There is no fixing said gamers. They want, and need, to win. Because, that is all that they have.

Wait, are you telling me that the crazy guy can't have sex (with a living person, mind you)?

[Vassago Rain]

[Kjudoon]

To the OP who said:

Quote

Medication and therapy might help.

You're a pie-eyed pollyanna optimist. God love ya for it.

[Motroid]

You, Sir OP, have serious issues.
Gaming in general and competetive gaming in particular are part of human nature.
Deal with it - but don't bring anyone down trying to do their best in what they love most. Gaming.
Seeing how you deal with opposite comments proves me right.
It's not all black and white out there. Actually I don't know a single concern that is either black or white as you paint it.
This is a straight "ad homines" thread and it disqualifies you on so many levels.
Feel free to leave if you really think this game is full of "No-live try hards" - mind the backswing, cya

[Molossian Dog]

Medication?

Well, that would kind of explain the MWO price tags...

Edited by Molossian Dog, 30 October 2014 - 02:51 AM.

[Kjudoon]

"If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs and one yelps, you know you hit one." attributed to Abraham Lincoln.

[Hillbillycrow]

Eh, personal fail is vastly more annoying to me than Joe Random failing and causing a lost match.

But, yeah, some folks seem to have exactly no sense of perspective.

[Dauntless Blint]

Motroid, on 30 October 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

You, Sir OP, have serious issues.
Gaming in general and competetive gaming in particular are part of human nature.
Deal with it - but don't bring anyone down trying to do their best in what they love most. Gaming.
Seeing how you deal with opposite comments proves me right.
It's not all black and white out there. Actually I don't know a single concern that is either black or white as you paint it.
This is a straight "ad homines" thread and it disqualifies you on so many levels.
Feel free to leave if you really think this game is full of "No-live try hards" - mind the backswing, cya

^^^Troll^^^Do not Feed^^^He is the OP's evidence^^^

Anyone playing games online is also participating in escaping reality whether consciously or not,it also functions as entertainment of course and can be mildly addictive and enjoyable.
To what extent can be argued.Hard core "Gamers" are typically the right sort of candidate to be in denial about this most.

Edited by CorditeJunkie, 30 October 2014 - 03:24 AM.

[Fanatic]

[RalphVargr]

Peenutts, on 29 October 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

OP you live in Missouri?

That should be Crystal City Clear.

Thorn Hallis, on 30 October 2014 - 01:28 AM, said:

Wait, are you telling me that the crazy guy can't have sex (with a living person, mind you)?

Not in 55 years.

Motroid, on 30 October 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

You, Sir OP, have serious issues.
Gaming in general and competetive gaming in particular are part of human nature.
Deal with it - but don't bring anyone down trying to do their best in what they love most. Gaming.
Seeing how you deal with opposite comments proves me right.
It's not all black and white out there. Actually I don't know a single concern that is either black or white as you paint it.
This is a straight "ad homines" thread and it disqualifies you on so many levels.
Feel free to leave if you really think this game is full of "No-live try hards" - mind the backswing, cya

Correct. It's not black and white. It's all black (name the album).

It has been an honor.

Kiiyor, on 30 October 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

Well, not all competitive players are at the extremes you mention. There are (probably) in-betweeners, these being the players who are able to choke down their anger and type "GG" instead of the usual vitriol laced diatribe. There are also competitive players who are quite able to accept a loss without being a giant bag of detached phalli.

There is also the pure middle ground - being the assumed majority of players that simply play the game, throw small amounts of cash at it, (wisely) never venture into the forum badlands, and don't see the need to complain.

At the bottom of the spectrum are the terrible players that every now and again manage to eke out a decent round and think this is their normal skill level.

The thing is, there will always be things for people to complain about. I'm guessing PGI set up the earnings the way they did so they could be expanded upon down the track. I -really- like the concept and intent behind the change, as it has given me my first tantalizing glimpse of role warfare - but the implementation could use some tweaking. Not a complete rework, or a removal as some people are clamoring for. Tweaking! People complain about this like it's the apocalypse!

It's the way people approach their arguments that gets me. Most of the angry posts are demands, not a call for review. "DO IT MY WAY". These people tend to have trouble accepting anything that contradicts their view. If anyone does contradict their view, then it's ARGUIN' TIME. Hence most posts on the forums! The thing is, the arguments laid out aren't designed to bring the person over to see things their way; they are designed to prove the other person wrong.

I read this today, and it stuck with me:

That’s the thing with calling people out. It often, not always, comes from a place of ego or reaction. The intent, conscious or not, is to make the other person wrong. There’s also a public aspect to calling someone out, of making them lose face. The tone is adversarial. And ultimately, you’re putting the burden of change entirely on the other person (“Stop it!”).

Calling people forth, in contrast, comes from a place of service and an open heart. The intent is to call the person to higher ground. It builds on their strengths. The tone is collaborative. And ultimately, you’re sharing the burden of getting better (“How can I help?”). It feels more like coaching than scolding.

Doesn't that sound lovely. Naive, and lovely.

If you get big, competitive personalities together, there's bound to be fireworks. The trick is to find the people that aren't going to accept anything you say. There is absolutely no point arguing with someone who is only going to try and prove you wrong.

If you want your opinion heard, make your point, make it constructive, make it a suggestion, not a demand, avoid the rage, and move on if you notice you are trying to put your fingers through the keyboard when typing your replies.

Edit: Wow, reading back on this, i'm surprisingly eloquent considering the volume of beer consumed this eve. I've also written to much.

Bravo, Kilyor. You have phrased things better than I could have. My genuine congratulations.

And I agree- MWO is best played drunk.

Kvaneal, on 29 October 2014 - 09:14 PM, said:

So PGI needs to provide medication and therapy. I've also heard some of my fellow teachers proscribe the aerial spraying of Prozac. The extreme majority of people are just fine. Relax.

Kvaneal, on 29 October 2014 - 09:14 PM, said:

So PGI needs to provide medication and therapy. I've also heard some of my fellow teachers proscribe the aerial spraying of Prozac. The extreme majority of people are just fine. Relax.

They could put it up for MC. Drugs are cheaper in Canada.