47 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

Sandpit, on 10 November 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Not if a rating was assigned to each component. Think of it as each component having an "Elo modifier" that adjusts accordingly and adds into your personal Elo. Then it doesn't have to adjust for each build in a match, it adjusts based on the component itself and just acts as a modifier to your base Elo.

Sadly won't work well, especially now with certain quriks in place. An AC5 on a Dragon is far more valuable than same AC5 on a Spider etc.

But otherwise I can only agree to what you keep saying. Separate Elo scores for different chassis (i.e. Locusts, Spiders, Ravens apart etc.) might be a good start to improve Elo matchmaking (even tho I still think we should get rid of Elo MM in the first place).

[Troutmonkey]

Egomane, on 11 November 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

You did not carry in those matches, not for a single moment, as far as I witnessed it. You complained (even before anything happened) and died early and that was all there was to your performance, on the three matches where I had the honor to witness your greatness.

You don't seem to understand, just because I suck doesn't mean that my entire team should suck. If teams are balanced it shouldn't be up to one person's suckiness or lack thereof whether the game is lost or not. I can't be held responsible for the actions of the rest of my team. My early deaths were the result of playing an assault and being abandoned by my team as they failed to heed any calls for help, early warnings (enemies inbound c3!), or calls to focus down enemies. It certainly is very hard to live very long or do very well when it's 12v1. I'm not trying to solo fights, but my team didn't seem very intent on sticking around to help.

You also must have missed the first hour of my games, because in many of those games I was indeed the top scorer of my team, but that doesn't mean much when the top scorer is 400 damage and 1 kill. It wasn't until the second hour of constant losses that the depression (and associated rage) set it.

I'd imagine you would have been in one of games on Frozen city, a map which I had played a half dozen times that night, each from the same spawn, with each result being exactly the same - team would push theta, enemies would push C3 into Epsi, and then everyone on my team would die as they were spread too thin between the objectives. One game I managed to spawn on the other side of the map, and informed my team to try and pull off the same maneuver through C3 into Epsi. They failed this and spread once again to Theta, before the enemy team (the same people from before) pushed through C3 and crushed us again. The six time this map came up I simply shut down and watched as the game progressed exactly the same as before and reach it's inevitable conclusion - a complete wipe and a loss. After playing what appeared to be ground hog day I don't think you can blame me for complaining pre-game and predicting (the correct) outcome of the game.

I can take responsibility for my lack of skill and poor playing, but I cannot take responsibility for the collective suckage of my teams on that night. If Elo was working as it should, both teams would equally suck, but each game it seemed my team would scatter and die while the enemy formed a well coordinated deathball and rolled across the map.

[Egomane]

Troutmonkey, on 11 November 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

You don't seem to understand, just because I suck doesn't mean that my entire team should suck. If teams are balanced it shouldn't be up to one person's suckiness or lack thereof whether the game is lost or not. I can't be held responsible for the actions of the rest of my team. My early deaths were the result of playing an assault and being abandoned by my team as they failed to heed any calls for help, early warnings (enemies inbound c3!), or calls to focus down enemies. It certainly is very hard to live very long or do very well when it's 12v1. I'm not trying to solo fights, but my team didn't seem very intent on sticking around to help.

You also must have missed the first hour of my games, because in many of those games I was indeed the top scorer of my team, but that doesn't mean much when the top scorer is 400 damage and 1 kill. It wasn't until the second hour of constant losses that the depression (and associated rage) set it.

I'd imagine you would have been in one of games on Frozen city, a map which I had played a half dozen times that night, each from the same spawn, with each result being exactly the same - team would push theta, enemies would push C3 into Epsi, and then everyone on my team would die as they were spread too thin between the objectives. One game I managed to spawn on the other side of the map, and informed my team to try and pull off the same maneuver through C3 into Epsi. They failed this and spread once again to Theta, before the enemy team (the same people from before) pushed through C3 and crushed us again. The six time this map came up I simply shut down and watched as the game progressed exactly the same as before and reach it's inevitable conclusion - a complete wipe and a loss. After playing what appeared to be ground hog day I don't think you can blame me for complaining pre-game and predicting (the correct) outcome of the game.

I can take responsibility for my lack of skill and poor playing, but I cannot take responsibility for the collective suckage of my teams on that night. If Elo was working as it should, both teams would equally suck, but each game it seemed my team would scatter and die while the enemy formed a well coordinated deathball and rolled across the map.

I remember Terra Therma and Caustic and I remember seeing you in a Cataphract in one of those matches. You where in my lance one time, so you did indeed play an assault (as I was leveling my Direwolf), but I can't remember which of the three matches that was or how the matches played out exactly, except for the things I already mentioned. You were in the opposing team once.

I do know that you didn't stay to watch till the very end, so you do not know what happened after you logged out. I can't remember clearly either, but I do know that I had much worse games in the past 30 months of MWOs playable existence. I can't remember any of those three matches being a clear stomp.

So I'd say it was a bad luck streak and nothing else. Happens to all of us eventually. Just like the lucky streak that we somehow always forget to remember.

Edited by Egomane, 12 November 2014 - 04:28 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Egomane, on 10 November 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Why should it? Elo is only applied during match making and for the end result adjustment. Are you attempting to move the goal post?

Both teams were near equal at the beginning. Both had near equal chances to win. There should be no further responsibility for the Elo formula.

Edit:
Your argument brought back to chess...
As you lose towers and knights, how does the chess Elo factor that in? It's totally throwing the result of, if one player loses more pawns then the other.

Sorry Ego, That was the point I was trying to get across. I didn't word my post well, obviously.

[Willard Phule]

Egomane, on 10 November 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Why should it? Elo is only applied during match making and for the end result adjustment. Are you attempting to move the goal post?

Both teams were near equal at the beginning. Both had near equal chances to win. There should be no further responsibility for the Elo formula.

I'm assuming you were playing in the group queue?

In the Solo Queue, there is rarely a "near equal chance to win" due to the whole "the better you are, the more you carry" principle.

Please understand, I'm not complaining. If I don't like the way the Solo Queue is playing out, I can always break down and join a unit. Because, and let's face it, the Group Queue is the focus of everything. The Solo Queue is just the "training tutorial."

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 12 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

Please understand, I'm not complaining. If I don't like the way the Solo Queue is playing out, I can always break down and join a unit. Because, and let's face it, the Group Queue is the focus of everything. The Solo Queue is just the "training tutorial."

Why shouldn't it be? We are playing for nothing. The Group Que is at least working on team work and tactics that may be useful in CW? How can you practice those, when you never get the same 11 people on you side every drop?

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 November 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

Why shouldn't it be? We are playing for nothing. The Group Que is at least working on team work and tactics that may be useful in CW? How can you practice those, when you never get the same 11 people on you side every drop?

Not to mention the fact that joining a group is the end goal for everyone that plays this game. Anyone that could possibly get any enjoyment from playing without having to deal with all the politics that comes from being in a group.....not to mention waiting 20 minutes between matches for them to all go to the bathroom one at a time...must be a complete idiot.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm agreeing. The Solo Queue has absolutely no point in existing other than to be a "training tutorial" for new players. If you want to stop having to deal with them, join a group. They don't know how. It's a guaranteed escape.

[Egomane]

Willard Phule, on 12 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

I'm assuming you were playing in the group queue?

Playing solo, since the implementation of groupsizes 5 to 10 and integration of those with the 12 man group. I had fun with my friends as a four man group as we still played like single players, with nearly no coordination, but we can't play that way in the group queue and stopped grouping up because of that. We don't want to throw the competetive crowd of, with our unorganized way of playing.

I'm still a team player. I protect my team mates, I focus fire and I try to stay out of the line of fire of my team, to not prevent someone else from shooting. All this is possible in the solo queue.

I don't see a "the better you are, the more you carry" in the solo queue. Sorry, but this is a completly wrong concept advocated by those who do not understand the matchmaker or who do not want to understand it.

Willard Phule, on 12 November 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

Not to mention the fact that joining a group is the end goal for everyone that plays this game.

No, it is not! I can take plenty of enjoyment out of the Solo queue without having to deal with group politics and other nonsense. I'm playing a game. No need to make it overly complicated by bringing the human habit of craving for recognition into it. I play to have fun and to escape from such things. There is already plenty enough of it in the real world.

Edited by Egomane, 12 November 2014 - 07:32 AM.