11 replies to this topic

[Skribs]

I don't have a problem with the idea of LRMs being a high-damage ALOS weapon platform. However, for it to work in a well balanced fashion, they need 2 fixes:

1) Trajectory needs to be fixed. I can hide behind buildings in Frozen City and still get hit. Not the towers, granted, but we're talking about probably a 70* or steeper angle, which is just ridiculous.

2) They need to have less cockpit shake. Seriously, it's ridiculous.

I don't care if LRMs do 1.8 damage like they did at first, 1.1-ish damage, or even if they get nerfed to 0.5 damage. If you cannot use cover and/or you cannot shoot back when being pounded by them, they are overpowered.

[Bront]

I'll agree the trajectory is a little off still (it's less of an arc at the tail end, and watching the flight path at times is amusing how they'll jerk into play a bit), but with the damage reduction, they don't seem too bad. I've been caught in an LRM storm and lived with mechs where I used to be toast, and enjoyed being tickled by the LRM5 chainfire boats that simply aren't effective anymore. Though it's possible more folks are carrying AMS than before, which also helps.

Honestly, the bigger issue with cover is it is directional, and so it doesn't always help with all missiles if they're coming from several different directions, and that's perfectly fine.

[Skribs]

I've been in situations where direction doesn't matter. I have cover between me and the LRMs, as in I am standing next to a building, and they keep pummeling me. The only options I have are hope I don't take too much damage or run out and get off a single alpha before everything with line-of-sight weapons cuts me down.

[Felbombling]

3) Flat trajectory for targets within LoS with a fast speed comparable to a PPC, making them a direct damage weapon.

4) Targets hit indirectly would have a higher arc, slower speed and the requirement of an eyes on spotter or other targeting assistance such as NARC.

[pyrocomp]

StaggerCheck, on 09 November 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

3) Flat trajectory for targets within LoS with a fast speed comparable to a PPC, making them a direct damage weapon.

Why not just make them run strait where directed?
'You want arc? Lock, aim high, fire, bring crosshair back to keep lock.' This will allow not only high arcs, but also shooting arond the corner. More speed and damage maybe, but that's another set of questions with this drastic change in mechanics.

[Celtic Warrior]

We've had this discussion before about LRM's arc and most are in agreement that the arc is way to high. And I've also been behind a large building and wonder why I'm still getting hit my LRM's. I also have radar dep which doesn't really work that well and not 100% of the time.

[Felbombling]

pyrocomp, on 09 November 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Why not just make them run strait where directed?
'You want arc? Lock, aim high, fire, bring crosshair back to keep lock.' This will allow not only high arcs, but also shooting arond the corner. More speed and damage maybe, but that's another set of questions with this drastic change in mechanics.

In my post, both 3) and 4) would require a lock. Right now we have people being locked up simply by being close enough to another Mech on the other side of a hill. My suggestion would help LRMs be effective as most direct fire weapons when LoS called for it, and harder to use as an indirect weapon.

[Skribs]

3 & 4) I disagree. They should be the same missile, so changing speed doesn't make sense. Changing arc could be a good or bad thing depending on whether or not they duck behind cover.

Using your angle to determine whether or not it's a hit...I'm hesitant on that too. Unless they made it keep lock easier, it would be very easy to lose lock on that jerk. And it would always glitch out at the worst moment (i.e. right before they hit 180m as they charge you).

[Telmasa]

Huh, the first LRM-tweak thread I've seen that makes some fair sense.

You've got my vote.

Edited by Telmasa, 09 November 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[Felbombling]

Skribs, on 09 November 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

3 & 4) I disagree. They should be the same missile, so changing speed doesn't make sense. Changing arc could be a good or bad thing depending on whether or not they duck behind cover.

Using your angle to determine whether or not it's a hit...I'm hesitant on that too. Unless they made it keep lock easier, it would be very easy to lose lock on that jerk. And it would always glitch out at the worst moment (i.e. right before they hit 180m as they charge you).

Wouldn't that be the same thing as backing behind cover as a PPC bolt was inbound? I don't really see the difference, other than the lock requirement for the LRMs in this case. I'm just looking for solutions to the constant rain of LRMs that make boating them practically necessary once you decide to mount LRMs. It is fairly rare to see a build like what a standard Orion would carry, for example... AC/10, LRM 15, Medium Lasers and SRMs. Everything seems to be boat this or boat that, once you decide on a weapon system.

Edited by StaggerCheck, 09 November 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[Skribs]

Telmasa, on 09 November 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

Huh, the first LRM-tweak thread I've seen that makes some fair sense.

You've got my vote.

Of course it makes sense, I said it

StaggerCheck, on 09 November 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

Wouldn't that be the same thing as backing behind cover as a PPC bolt was inbound? I don't really see the difference, other than the lock requirement for the LRMs in this case. I'm just looking for solutions to the constant rain of LRMs that make boating them practically necessary once you decide to mount LRMs. It is fairly rare to see a build like what a standard Orion would carry, for example... AC/10, LRM 15, Medium Lasers and SRMs. Everything seems to be boat this or boat that, once you decide on a weapon system.

This was a 2-part thought process.

Part 1: I do not think it would make sense for LRMs to move faster in one scenario than the other. So either they move fast both low- and high-bore, or they move slow both low- and high-bore, but not fast one way and slow the other. (This is also a problem I have with range-based missile quirks).

Part 2: As an LRMer, if my missiles are slow, I would want them to have a better arc so that if the target does duck behind moderate cover (that breaks LOS but is not tall enough to provide good shelter) it wouldn't necessarily mean I automatically miss. I think LRMs should be usable ALOS, just not when line of sight is blocked by a straight wall twice as tall as me.

[LennStar]

1) The arc degree at the landing is, as mentioned, way to big. Even lights get hit if they dont kiss a normal high buildings wall in the middle of the building.

2) Another problem is the speed. After they increased it, you cant take cover if you are farer away then one mech length. And a light cannot run away from LRM anymore even at great range. - that point is secondary, depending on dmg/LRM and other factors like how they suddenly mostly hit lights legs.

3) And third is the "keep above the ground" mechanic. That can result in you getting hit by LRM that are aimed at a point 100m away.


1) and 3) simply have to stop. LRMs should rain down on the point of their last lock, its as simply as that. Arc should be ballistic = around 45° when coming down
(If we are talking about fast lights here, well, there could be a bit "tweaking" in the code that the LRM hit lights, no problem with that even if it looks bad in game when LRMm get a sudden 20° course change. Fair is fair, an LRM should of course hit a light, too - on the center, not only the legs)

Then with 1) and 3 gone, you can simply change the dmg to get good balance.
LRM are not for devastating the enemy, they are for keeping them down at long ranges or do dmg at medium ranges.