42 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

game was way more fun with knockdowns, even as buggy as they were, than it is without them.

of course time to kill was much higher back then, so getting knocked down didnt always mean instant death, like it would today

in order for knockdowns to be balanced theyd have to significantly reduce the rate of fire across the board so getting knocked down wouldnt be instant death. but honestly thats something they should just do anyway because the game isnt as fun with low TTK.

Edited by Khobai, 10 November 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[WarHippy]

KraftySOT, on 10 November 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

Its still there, the fundamental problem hasnt been fixed, but the lower player counts, and server move have covered it up. Its still there. I experience it whenever my wifi gets overloaded on weekends. I see lights rubber band occasionally. And I saw Vassagos stormcrow rubber band through a wall a week ago.

If they fix that. They can do knockdowns. Its why they took them out.

Stunlocking Paul I think for 10 minutes in a match while his machine took a lag ****.

Sorry you have crappy WiFi? I'm just not seeing the rubber banding. I'm sure people out there probably are, but if you have a crappy internet connection and/or crappy router that can't handle the load being put on it then I don't see how that is the games fault. As for why they took it out it was because it was buggy in general. Dragon bowling was fun though.

Terciel1976, on 10 November 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

Ever run a light past a big mech? Or had a laggy light run past you? It's not every time, but it can be awful.

Yes, I have ran a light mech past a big mech. Am I supposed to be seeing some sort of problem when doing that? If I am I'm not seeing it. Like I said I have not seen rubber banding in months. It just hasn't been an issue.

[Zerberus]

Kain Thul, on 10 November 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Collisions are horrible in this game. Nothing worse than when another 'mech touches you and then you teleport 10m ******* up the shot you had just lined up.

You would prefer to be lying on your back for 10 seconds completely defenseless and unable to control anything outside of chat instead?

Because that`s the way it was before, and the general concensus is that needed to die in a huge fire sooner than later.

Edited by Zerberus, 11 November 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[KraftySOT]

WarHippy, on 10 November 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

Sorry you have crappy WiFi? I'm just not seeing the rubber banding. I'm sure people out there probably are, but if you have a crappy internet connection and/or crappy router that can't handle the load being put on it then I don't see how that is the games fault. As for why they took it out it was because it was buggy in general. Dragon bowling was fun though.
Yes, I have ran a light mech past a big mech. Am I supposed to be seeing some sort of problem when doing that? If I am I'm not seeing it. Like I said I have not seen rubber banding in months. It just hasn't been an issue.

Hey look its exactly what Paul said before he was stun locked for 10 minutes:



Notice the fun bit where the Dragon runs directly THROUGH Paul...but Paul flops over anyways.

Yeah....they all have good connections too.

Great idea....they simply dont have the talent to pull it off.

Also the really cool rubber band warping after the falls.. Man thats classic **** right there.

UnchaUnchaUnchaUncha WUB WUB WUB WUB

Rubber baaaaaaaaand


UnchaUnchaUnchaUncha WUB WUB WUB



Yeah.

No knockdowns till you fix the netcode.

[New Breed]

KraftySOT, on 10 November 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

I experience it whenever my wifi gets overloaded on weekends.

[Ruccus]

Rather than a complete knockdown, I'd suggest a 'stumble' which rocks the cockpit severely and does some damage to both mechs. I'd also like to see Death From Above - it'd make those jump jets on my Summoner less of a detriment.

Edit: I believe I've mentioned before in another thread that if a light hits a heavy/assault mech, the light would shake a lot and the bigger mech a little, while mechs of the same weight hitting each other would shake equally.

Edited by Ruccus, 11 November 2014 - 09:21 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Yup.

Yet I have no problems in EuIV, BF4, GTA online, Warthunder, etc...when my Wifi is overloaded on the weekends.

Those games are fine.

The only rubberbanding im getting, is MWO. Mostly on the weekends, but it happens during the middle of the day on a Tuesday, just not as much.

Its because theres no packet loss prevention in MWO.

Whereas almost every other game I play. Has it. I dont even have problems in Supreme Commander Forged Alliance online during the weekends.

MWO however....

Its because PGI.

Not because my internet.

Nor am I the person who has made the 234323094234093049230492 Rubberbanding videos on Youtube.

So.

Yeah.

Knockdowns arent coming back. Get over it. Paul was made to look like a total fool. Itll never happen.

[Satan n stuff]

Kain Thul, on 10 November 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Collisions are horrible in this game. Nothing worse than when another 'mech touches you and then you teleport 10m ******* up the shot you had just lined up.

Correction, collisions were horrible in this game. What we have now is a buggy system that appears to work by magnetism, or maybe a form of anti-gravity, but it's definitely not a collision system. Calling it that would be insulting all the actual collision systems out there.
As for my opinion on an actual collision system? Yes please, there's realistically no way we can have melee combat or DFA without it, and charging to attempt to damage and knock mechs to the ground is allowed in tabletop.

Not sure if I'd be on board with knockdown capable ranged weapons though, seems like a quick way to make high alpha cheese ten times worse than it is now. Not to mention all the noob LRM whining that would likely cause: "waah i got hit by 60 missles and my mek fell down and i died LURMS ARE OP PGI PLZ NURF LURMS!!!!!"

[Rhialto]

I don't think all the physics will ever get in the game... I remember a thread I started in which I pointed that it makes no sense that a 169 Km/h light can enter water without no slow down at all... but see, nothing was made about this up to now.

I think people want CW. Not me as I don't know what it is and that I PUG only but many can't wait for it and since a long time already so maybe later they will get into offering better physics while trying to keep the game fun to play.

[MechWarrior414712]

Honestly PGI should take a look in to this after they're done with more important things. Why this didn't work was because there was basically no risk for the one who went in and rammed people in that Dragon.

And @ the Paul video; He was alone anyway, not like he would've survived if knockdowns didn't exist. Sure you can grief these days too if you strip the enemy mech off its weapons, leg it and let it wobble around for that 15 minutes. It's the same thing as what's happening in that video.

Fix the rubberbanding, drastically increase damage taken for both who collide with each other, take tonnage/size in to account, quirks for ramming etc. Physics like this would greatly boost the simulation feel what this game is supposed to have anyway.

[KraftySOT]

Well its not the griefing it was the horrible rubberbanding, it was the fact that it looked like misses, and you still fell over, and falling over was a lag fest in and of itself. Even when youre on a T3 line at a development studio with a workstation. It was still buggy as hell due to the way the netcode is.

If you can fix that. Sure bring em back.

But the issue was something fundamental to the engine that they cant change. Maybe something will hit the devkit or maybe they can hire someone to do something about it in the future, but its bleak at best.

What might work is "charge mechanic"

Something like, you hold down shift, you get a small boost to speed, cant fire your weapons, and only in this mode, can you collide with other mechs and knock them down.

Then instead of tracking all mechs for where they are and if theyve collided and what to do with that collision, youre only checking the mechs that are "charging"

Might reduce the load.

But it will still have the same problem that collisions in say...flight sims have.

One of the people will not see the collision, and will just randomly fall over.

Edited by KraftySOT, 11 November 2014 - 10:25 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

KraftySOT, on 11 November 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Yup.

Yet I have no problems in EuIV, BF4, GTA online, Warthunder, etc...when my Wifi is overloaded on the weekends.

Those games are fine.

The only rubberbanding im getting, is MWO. Mostly on the weekends, but it happens during the middle of the day on a Tuesday, just not as much.

Its because theres no packet loss prevention in MWO.

Whereas almost every other game I play. Has it. I dont even have problems in Supreme Commander Forged Alliance online during the weekends.

MWO however....

Its because PGI.

Not because my internet.

Nor am I the person who has made the 234323094234093049230492 Rubberbanding videos on Youtube.

So.

Yeah.

Knockdowns arent coming back. Get over it. Paul was made to look like a total fool. Itll never happen.

Stop being an ***. We're trying to have a discussion.

[KraftySOT]

But its a circle jerk of a discussion. It cant go anywhere.

What you want to talk about is the network code.

[Artgathan]

Knockdowns are problematic. They're basically a buff to Heavy/Assault mechs (which are clearly underpowered in the current game) and a nerf to Light/Medium mechs (which are clearly OP).

If knockdowns are added back in, we'll all be going Timberwolf bowling. 75 tons moving at 89 kph? That's a lot of energy. Way more than an Altas cruising at 71 kph.

[Kensaisama]

I think Assaults should have the option to punt

[LordKnightFandragon]

Id love me some knock down in this game....blast a light with a barrage of Acs and SRMs and on his face he goes....then he dies =D...

[Zerberus]

KraftySOT, on 11 November 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

But its a circle jerk of a discussion. It cant go anywhere.

What you want to talk about is the network code.

No, they`re trying to talk about an idea for teh way a revised system could work.

Figuring out when /how to engineer and implement it (or not) is PGI`S job, not ours.

Just like when a customer comes to me and says "I need this built, that built, and here`s what they need to look like and do." It`s my job to make it reality, not his.

[KraftySOT]

But its like youre asking plumbers to build a house. Thats what im trying to tell you. Or more accurately, youre trying to tell concrete layers, to lay the foundation after the building has already been built.

Knockdowns arent going to work well. Ever. Its the nature of the internet. Ask every flightsim jock EVER about HeadonDweebs and Stick strirring.

Your job as a "brainstormer" is to know the capabilities and limitations of the people youre asking to do the thing youre brainstorming.

The hardcap factor to your brainstorming, is the netcode. Thats the foundation. And unfortunately, unless the skies part and money falls into PGIs bank account, the foundation was already laid.

Edited by KraftySOT, 11 November 2014 - 11:23 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Also the prediction code. And they dont have a prediction guy. Theyre just using the prediction code native to the engine.

Prediction code is what is needed to display the location of others. Because in reality, theyre your combined pings milliseconds, away from where youre getting packets telling you they are.

The prediction code looks at your speed and heading, and puts the other mechs youre seeing, where the predictor "estimates" they should actually be.

When they get a packet from the other player and they arent where the predictor says they are, thats when the rubberbanding happens. They "snap" to where they "really are" which isnt "where they really are" its just where the packet said they were, and the predictor runs again, and moves them on your end, to where they are "Estimated" to actually be.

So unless youre taking this into account....youre just spinning your wheels.

[Xythius]

I sincerely hope not. It's a mechanic that works well enough in TT, but not in a system like this. It's really unnecessary. Within a day these forums would be exploding with rants about getting knocked down, then eating an alpha strike & being dead. It just wont work in the arena we are playing in.

~Xythius